What if....

Discussion in 'Comparative Studies' started by 17th Angel, Sep 3, 2007.

  1. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    But -what if- it was the truth? Would it matter that it was foreign?
     
  2. Dondi

    Dondi Well-Known Member

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    All I'm saying is that at this particular moment, I do not feel compelled toward Islam, or any other faith, for I have a peace and contentment in what I already have. Even if I'm wrong about Christianity, I feel no condemnation because I believe I'm following a path that God is pleased with. My conscience doesn't condemn me, unless I've made some moral grievious error. I am guided (or at least try to live) by the principle Two Commandments: Love God and Love thy neighbor, which I believe transcends even the Christian religion in regards to living as God wants us to live. Surely this is most basic in the Abrahamic religions. But even the second commandment of Love thy neighbor must form the basis of non-Abrahamic religions, so you can't go wrong there, I should think.
     
  3. JosephM

    JosephM Well-Known Member

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    Hi Dondi,
    Just some more thoughts....
    It seems to me that the word Allah is just the Muslim name for God. It doesn't signify a different God. Each of us has our own conditioned concept of God and though particulars or our current understanding may be different and some religions may apply a different name, the declarations remain in common between religions declaring One God. Most if not all recognize God as creator and source of our life and the world around us. So in effect, one might say we all worship the same God but we apply our own cultural colors and dogma to Him according to our claimed religion.

    It seems to me that to create a 'them' and an 'us' in any religion is a color that leads to separation rather than unity. Obviously, there is only One creator of ALL and therefor separation is of man and not of God.

    I agree with you that there is indeed one "universal internal mechanism" so to speak that draws all men to God in time regardless of their religion.

    Love and Peace,
    JM
     
  4. Dondi

    Dondi Well-Known Member

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    I am aware that Allah is the Muslim name for God. But for Islam, it seems highly important to distinguish that name in association with Mohammed as the definitive prophet and the idea of Allah as portrayed in the Qu'ran. Certainly, there are similarities in the description of the Qu'ran idea of God in comparision with the OT and NT idea of God, but there are also marked differences. And perhaps is it those kinds of differences as presented in the texts or the intepretation of the texts that tend to separate us. It would be nice to settle on the similarities and call it a day.
     
  5. JosephM

    JosephM Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I think we can choose to do that and let God settle the differences in our understanding in time.

    Love in Christ,
    JM
     
  6. Snoopy

    Snoopy zennish

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    and as the great Homer said: What if we're worshipping the wrong God? Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder!

    s.
     
  7. Dondi

    Dondi Well-Known Member

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    Was that Homer of The Odyssey fame or Homer Simpson?
     
  8. Snoopy

    Snoopy zennish

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    The one that I watch.:)

    s.
     
  9. flowperson

    flowperson Oannes

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    DUH'OH !

    flow....:confused:
     
  10. Muslimwoman

    Muslimwoman Coexistence insha'Allah

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    Excellent question 17th and one I ask myself often. My answer is that if following that religion makes me a better person and there is nothing when I die, then I have at least lived a better life through my belief. If another religion is right and I have chosen the wrong path, I trust that G-d is aware of my intentions and will not punish me for my desire to find Him through Islam (at least I looked).

    My heart/gut/inner voice tells me that faith in G-d is not a sedative, although I accept that a degree of 'control the masses' has crept into all religions.

    Can a test be a test if you are given the answers beforehand? The test is faith, to believe in something you do not have the answers for.

    Salaam
     
  11. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercuræn Buddhist

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    This is known as teaching/schooling.
    Faith, hope, and love, in the Christian tradition. ;)
     
  12. Snoopy

    Snoopy zennish

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    Hi 17th,

    In a rare attack of seriousness I offer some of my thoughts. If you don’t like them, I have others. From your OP:

    Maybe one shouldn’t be “following”?

    Maybe one should step back from this either/or idea of right and wrong?


    If the purpose is only to die then what is the purpose to be born?




    Then don’t take a sedative and stay awake.


    That’s up to each of us to dwell on. Hence, amongst other things, this forum!


    Exactly. Dwell on that! But don’t expect an “answer” from anyone but yourself.


    So you’ve answered your question above.


    Did you get some piece of paper at birth you mean advising you that this would happen at some point? That may sound facetious but I am wondering what it is that you might be expecting, and why you would expect it. If you want to “put your mind at ease” you have to find some solitude, look inwards and start your self enquiry there. Listen to yourself.


    As you say, statistically…


    But if your feeling of being unlucky persists, take solace in the fact that our existence in this current form, as a living entity is, of course, like all phenomena, a temporary arrangement. But while you’re here, you could enjoy the view.


    s.
     
  13. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    The opposite of follow is to lead? So you're suggesting I start my own religion? :D

    So no right or wrong? What do you judge your actions by then?

    To die?

    Why, do I need to stay alert?

    So I can ask, but the answer has to come from myself? I can't trust me lol... I freaking know me.... Why would I want to trust me?


    Well I don't expect anything as I myself believe in nothing... How sad eh? But, If I am wrong, I would expect the true ruler if it is a supreme being and not man.. To come and say hey hey hey son, look you're freaking doing this wrong... Do this.... It will be worth it in the end..

    There you go with that listen to myself thing again! NUTS! NUTS I TELL'S YA.

    I don't feel lucky nor unlucky... Just trying to put everyone's view on it... I just crawl along stoned out of my face 80% of the time..... And that does it for me... I then just sit talking of insane notions and such..... Believe me... I do enjoy the view.... Even though at times it can be distorted, blurred and not a true perception I enjoy it.
     
  14. Snoopy

    Snoopy zennish

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    There you go with that either/or thinking again. I wasn’t suggesting you start your own religion but of course you could. The only danger seems to be that you’d make a lot of money. Or none at all.

    I was suggesting “holy books” be seen in a more different way than right or wrong. In a non-religious analogy: Blur, Oasis, The Killers and Scissor Sisters are not right or wrong. As to my own actions I evaluate them with my internal ethical code (as does everyone?), which I guess comes from, er, my entire life’s experience, which includes, but is not limited by, my interest in a “religion.”

    This “either/or” thinking is really popular with you, isn’t it!!

    I thought you were saying about avoiding religion, because you saw it as a sedative. So I was just saying don’t take the sedative. Whether or not you want to stay alert is clearly a matter for you! (Personally I think it's crucial)

    Ultimately, yes. It could not be otherwise.

    I don’t know you, so I can’t say. Don’t people trust you in the offline world? Didn’t people trust you when you were in the Armed Forces? Have you reneged when people have trusted you on this forum?

    No-one knows this stuff for sure 17th, IMO. We’re all just farting around in the dark. And all any of us can do, is listen to ourselves, after perhaps doing the research, the reading, the talking, whatever…

    All Hail 17th Angel, the Life Oil of the CR engine!

    s.
     
  15. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    Either/or thinking... I do that alot? I have no idea what you are talking of..... Please for me, could you define it in a simple way?

    Ok yeah, I see where you be coming from.

    But as someone else stated everything is a sedative? Job, hobbies, whatever.... lol.... I dunno man...


    I only know like three people in the offline world lol...... I guess some trusted me, some even with their lives... But that was then and we are now. If I have an objective goal and so on... I can focus and yes I can be trusted to get it done... But my own personal judgement. Mumbling and muttering in my cranium? Oh no, we don't listen to that.... That ends in bad things.

    So with yew, unlike a few others I was talking to, are realy into this spiritual world thing. So why can't they help guide you? :\ save you all this farting aboot!

    *giggles*
     
  16. Snoopy

    Snoopy zennish

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    I would say that either / or thinking means to view something in terms of either one quality or its opposite e.g. a holy book or religion is right or wrong. But it is not appropriate to view all things like that e.g. you don’t view Oasis as just having one quality or its opposite. For some things “either / or” thinking is appropriate, e.g. virginity (one either is one or one is not one - stop giggling), but for others, it is not.

    Can’t speak for others!

    Well we’re all unique. All 8 billion of us. If you’re aware how bad things follow, maybe you should address that, if you want to? What starts it off? What is the process?

    Now it’s my turn: What do you mean please?

    s.


    PS freaky avatar!!!
     
  17. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    Ah I get it now aiiiiiight...

    Fair enough.

    No idea... Too many questions in one hit... I got brain freeze.

    Well, you know... You're into spiritual thangs... and such and paths.... But you say we are all farting around in the dark... But if there are spirits there, why don't they help you out? Instead of leaving to fart around...

    Oh you know it!
     
  18. Snoopy

    Snoopy zennish

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    Well, yes farting: nebulous stuff, but vital. However, due to the very nature of the ahem, subject, ain't nobody or no thing gonna go "TA DA Yes, you've got it!!!" (I believe). Hence the farting.

    Regarding your specific question, I don't believe in "spirits" (assuming we have the same sort of idea as to what "spirits" are) nor am I expecting or looking to any external (to "me") agency (including spirits) to "help me out."

    s.
     
  19. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    Well, then I stand corrected....

    And you believe in your opinion that the farting around is a must because it gives you some form of spiritual life experience to help you along your way? Ok I got it.
     
  20. Snoopy

    Snoopy zennish

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    I think we can simply say yes to that, especially since it's dinner time :D

    s.
     

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