why are we fighting?

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by LeoSalinas22, Oct 15, 2007.

  1. LeoSalinas22

    LeoSalinas22 merely a shadow...

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2007
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    0
    peace be upon you all...

    i recently stumbled upon something while researching the religion of islam. i saw this verse in B'ereishith (genesis) in the Tanach and it goes like this:

    18. And Abraham said to God, "If only Ishmael will live before You!"
    19. And God said, "Indeed, your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you shall name him Isaac, and I will establish My covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his seed after him.
    20. And regarding Ishmael, I have heard you; behold I have blessed him, and I will make him fruitful, and I will multiply him exceedingly; he will beget twelve princes, and I will make him into a great nation.
    21. But My covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this time next year."

    from what i understand is that God has established the covenant with Isaac's descendants. aren't the muslims descendants of Ishmael? on top of that, we have the scenario where Abraham was going to sacrifice Isaac, but i read somewhere that in the quran, Isaac was replaced with Ishmael. is this true? i don't have a copy of the quran to look this up or yet if i did have one, i wouldn't even know where to start (though reading the quran is on my "to-do" list! sorry...)

    i also have been reading articles that state that the dome of the rock was actually built right where the jewish temples were built. is this a coincidence? is it me or do Ishmael's descendents seem to want the Covenant that God established with Isaac to be theirs, instead of the Hebrews?

    i have also read a certain conspiracy theory where roman catholicism is responsible for the creation of islam. is this true? does anyone know anything about this? i would really appreciate some first hand knowledge into this. i would rather have an actual human being give me a fresh response to the question than read some old abandoned article on the 'net.

    i know that i shouldn't believe everything i read, but please be patient with me. i am still learning. sorry, if i come off as "blunt", but this has really been bothering me lately. as i mentioned in other posts, i just want to understand the world i live in. i want to know why we are all fighting one another. i want to know the difference between the narrow path and the broad path. thanks for reading and may God have mercy on us all...
     
  2. greymare

    greymare New Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,141
    Likes Received:
    0
    gday leo. I cant help you here but I also have been trying to break down these theories. U see, I was thinking that if we went back as far as we could (historically speaking) and worked out where the trouble started, we could, Independentally try to understand everyones point of view. It may be simplistic but thats the kind of person I am. there is a problem, lets workit out and fix it. (told you I was simple) haahaa. love the Grey.
     
  3. bob x

    bob x New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Messages:
    2,618
    Likes Received:
    1
    "i also have been reading articles that state that the dome of the rock was actually built right where the jewish temples were built. "
    The "rock" is an outcropping of the bedrock of Mt. Zion that was exposed, poking through the rubble of the building debris, after the temple was destroyed. Some theorize that this was the site of the Holy of Holies (if it was the summit-point of the natural mountain), but there is a lot of dispute about that.

    "i have also read a certain conspiracy theory where roman catholicism is responsible for the creation of islam. "
    Never heard of that, but it sounds like the worst kind of rubbish.
     
  4. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    21,869
    Likes Received:
    1,963
    I think Bob hit the nail on the head... this is exactly why we are fighting.

    We get tied up in our religions and trying to put down the other guy so we end up at odds.

    The question is Leo...what are you reading and where? Who is recommending these sites with the confusion you are getting into. If you provide your sources we may be able to discuss it further...do they have an agenda?

    But back to the why are we fighting.

    Bible says Jews are the chosen....some Christians and Muslims don't like that and try some one upmanship.

    Christians have Jesus as the only way to heaven....this leaves out Muslims and Jews unless of course they see the light and switch sides.

    Muslims believe Jesus and Mohamed, peace upon them, to be successive prophets and that they have the latest info.

    Bahai feel they've got Religion 9.7 and we should all get the upgrade.

    So unless we can each and all obtain an attitude which allows the other to have their belief system and not interfere....our issues will continue.

    And as long as the we have these agendas to convert....and the end justifies the means attitude...books and webpages and theories of any and all sort will be used to discredit the other guy...including innuendo, stretched truths, and outright lies and deception.
     
  5. LeoSalinas22

    LeoSalinas22 merely a shadow...

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2007
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    0
    hello wil,
    i am going to be honest with you. i am the kind of person who actually cares about what other people think about me. in other words, i don't want people to think that i am supporting these theories. that is why i am not going to give the links to these articles. a simple google search will suffice if you want to check these theories out. and as always, everyone has an agenda. that being self-righteous and i do not want to fall into that category. i am taking careful steps to avoid this.
     
  6. LeoSalinas22

    LeoSalinas22 merely a shadow...

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2007
    Messages:
    719
    Likes Received:
    0
    hello grey,
    when i am done building my time machine you are going to be the first one i will notify so that we can finally get to the bottom of this dilemna! lol! i am glad that at least someone on this planet isn't ashamed to be a "simpleton". i may not use the "big words" like all these other guys know, but i will know the truth before i die. that i know... thanks for your reassurance, grey. it really does help...
     
  7. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Messages:
    21,869
    Likes Received:
    1,963
    gotta remember there is also a story circulating that Josephus and his family were hired by the Romans to split up the Jews. The Jews at the time were getting close to being 10% of the empire and that number could easily cause big trouble if they were of one mind to revolt....divide and conquer was the idea...and rather than using warfare and control do it internally. So stories were written supplanted and circulated about this guy Jesus decades ago who did and said this and that and the other thing...

    theories and stories abound....and are all being proliferated like never before on the net...
     
  8. BlaznFattyz

    BlaznFattyz Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,589
    Likes Received:
    0
    sounds and looks like replacement strategy.
     
  9. greymare

    greymare New Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,141
    Likes Received:
    0
    hey blaznfatty, new avatar???? I was wondering about your old one, it looked a bit rude to me so forgive me for being relieved at your new one.

    Leo, its cool mate, I supposed the problem is that Everyone thinks that they are right and everyone else is wrong. Eh? My ten year old made a suggestion today about fixing ALL the fighting in the world. he said, " what if we replaced all the guns and stuff with water bombs, now THAT would be cool" ( no pun intended, i think) simple, once again but i guarantee it would end in a bunch of giggles. oh, and the greenies would crack up about the bits of plastic all of the place. justa suggestion from a ten year old. love the Grey
     
  10. Lecter

    Lecter Fundamentalist

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi there :)

    I have a lot to say regarding your post, but I will start by saying just a little thing.

    The above sentence is simply wrong. Arabs may have been descendants of Ishmael, but Islam is a religion for all mankind. Only about 15-20% of Muslims are Arabs.

    From our point of view we could care less about the race of the prophets of God, we respect all of them.

    Also don't forget that from the Muslim point of view, both Ishmael and Isaac are in the end Muslim. So was their father, Jacob, Joseph, David, Solomon and all other prophets of God, peace be upon all of them.

    So don't make it a matter of one race against another, because from OUR point of view we are all children of Adam, and Adam was made from dust, or so said our prophet ;)
     
  11. Saltmeister

    Saltmeister The Dangerous Dinner

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    2,130
    Likes Received:
    2
    Do You Deliberately Capitalise All The Words In the Sentences In Your Post?:) I Was Just Curious. Lol.
     
  12. MichealAngelo

    MichealAngelo New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    salt? what is salty?
     
  13. MichealAngelo

    MichealAngelo New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2008
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    god i dont want that! the stuff i did before is "misguided" i hope we can forget about it god and go on like it didn't happen! i dont want to fight but you must not kick me out ok! it is wrong what i did but i am not you and so you can understand, im sure, that you are nice and all pritty things and i am man with wants and more wants! if i say thy will be done god then surely after that i can not go wrong god! so then i am right!
     

Share This Page