Why is faith different?

cyberpi

Interfaith Forums
Messages
1,437
Reaction score
0
Points
0
And the Grateful Dead were playing in Oregon, and had just struck up "Fire, Fire on the Mountain" when Mt. St. Helens erupted.
A skeptic? But if you were there feeling the ground shaking as you read the verse, would you not reflect? It was hard to dismiss. I already believed God existed for an intellectual reason and while that helped open my eyes to the possibility that he was actually present, it wasn't until later that I took to a pursuit.

I will give you another experiment then. I have committed adultery with sex outside of marriage. When I did admit to myself why that was so wrong by comparing actions with personal belief, I felt remorse and decided to give my wife the due opportunity for corrective action. I became convinced that I needed to confess it simply because it was a truth that I had buried. That was not easy, but I was relieved that she did forgive me. The next day, within a single day, we received three important phone calls for jobs. Whereas in the prior three or more months we had none. So the experiment is: if you have any sins whatsoever in your history, any lies, buried truths, or even just ill thoughts, then confess them. Do whatever it takes to clear them and to earn forgiveness by seeking change. It is a method to change but I was personally surprised to see the real feedback too. Keep the eyes open and if someone wants the proof, then I believe proof is available to them. The experiment is: be totally honest with others as you wish God to be totally honest with you.

I recently had someone who I was trying to convince of the importance of confession to help clear his record. He has a record and is open about it with me, but that does not buy him as much as being honest to the people that he sinned against and earning their forgiveness. Yet he outrightly was rejecting that as a path for fear of retribution. He said seriously that he believed that the 'christian god' automatically forgives him. So I asked him if someone sinned against him if he would automatically forgive them. He said yes, he forgives everyone. Then I asked him if he would still trust or place faith in the person, and he said no. So I said then you have NOT really forgiven them. I asked if he expected God to trust or place faith in him then? This person was angry that I was telling him what God does or does not do, so I said No, but that you are telling me what you think God is by the way that you treat people. Now, what if someone comes to you and confesses... will you trust them or place faith in them any more? He thought about it and said yes. So I asked will you be more thankful that they confessed their wrongdoing to you, and that they are seeking your forgiveness? He said yes... so, there is the importance of confession. If you want to improve the relationship then there is a tool. Earn God's faith. By rejecting confession I feel that a person is NOT placing faith in God. If you seek in your mind a relationship with God, and the past sins come to mind, then seek resolution to them. Clear them with a real commitment to change. I was not even expecting external feedback at the time, but upon receiving it I had some physical evidence that a portion of every day is not necessarily written by people.

Ok, another experiment: Pray for other people and ask other people to pray for you. Not just in a time of need, but there was an extended family member, Andrew, high school age who was nailed by a vehicle at over 40 mph just last St. Andrews day. He was hit in the head by the side mirror of a vehicle, and then smacked down on the pavement. There was blood coming from his brain and ear. He was in a comma and received open cranial surgery I think to relieve the pressure on his brain and stop some bleeding. His family sent out an appeal for prayer and I was impressed by his dad's commitment to family. I certainly did not think Andrew deserved this so my distant prayer was for a full recovery within one week. In one week he was out of the comma and released from ICU. In exactly another week they released him from the hospital and into physical therapy. In exactly another week they released him from there and he walked home. So in 21 days he walked home and he was then home for Christmas. It did not turn out exactly as I had personally asked, but it was considered an amazing recovery.

While I don't consider that as proof, it was an experiment. There are other more direct avenues, but ask yourself what really constitutes a proof? A hallucination? You would run the risk of doubting yourself, but as you try gravity every day you come to know gravity. Maybe a handful of de-thorned roses every day complete with kisses and an "I love you" in your ear? Does anyone here bother to give God the "I love you" every day? Are you able to receive rebuke? I did not realize that real feedback was available, and I have gained an appreciation for both praise and for rebuke... both are a portion of my proof. Seek your own proof, because I know that I can not prove for anyone what nobody but God could prove for me.
 

bob x

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,618
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Location
California, USA
the Grateful Dead were playing in Oregon, and had just struck up "Fire, Fire on the Mountain" when Mt. St. Helens erupted.
A skeptic?
Not at all. I wasn't there for that particular concert, but was in the Rubber Bowl in Akron, Ohio on a drizzly day when they decided to play "Roll Away, Roll Away the Dew" and all the clouds parted and it turned sunny.
The world is full of inexplicable marvels and synchronicities. No particular brand of spirituality has a corner on them.
 

cyberpi

Interfaith Forums
Messages
1,437
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Not at all. I wasn't there for that particular concert, but was in the Rubber Bowl in Akron, Ohio on a drizzly day when they decided to play "Roll Away, Roll Away the Dew" and all the clouds parted and it turned sunny.
The world is full of inexplicable marvels and synchronicities. No particular brand of spirituality has a corner on them.
Including math and science? Or is that somehow regarded as being different.
 

cyberpi

Interfaith Forums
Messages
1,437
Reaction score
0
Points
0
I am not sure I understand what your question is.
I was just playing off the title, "Why is faith different?" Well, why is math and science different? Like you said the world is full of inexplicable marvels and synchronicities and no particular brand of spirituality has a corner on them. Yet the adherants of math and science claim to explain the synchronicities, and someday the inexplicable marvels. As an engineer though I see that you are correct... math and science does not, and might never, have a corner on the synchronicities or inexplicable marvels.
 

Tao_Equus

Interfaith Forums
Messages
5,826
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Edinburgh, scotland
I was just playing off the title, "Why is faith different?" Well, why is math and science different? Like you said the world is full of inexplicable marvels and synchronicities and no particular brand of spirituality has a corner on them. Yet the adherants of math and science claim to explain the synchronicities, and someday the inexplicable marvels. As an engineer though I see that you are correct... math and science does not, and might never, have a corner on the synchronicities or inexplicable marvels.

The Maths and Science is repeatable at any time and by anybody. Is the ground shaking as you read this?

Tao
 

cyberpi

Interfaith Forums
Messages
1,437
Reaction score
0
Points
0
The Maths and Science is repeatable at any time and by anybody.
I think a relationship with God is repeatable by anybody.
Whereas you have assured me that you might have a secret closet where gravity has not been tested, and does not exist. So, Math and Science is not repeatable until we test the theories in your closet and everywhere. You contradict your own prior statements Tao.
 

Tao_Equus

Interfaith Forums
Messages
5,826
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Edinburgh, scotland
I think a relationship with God is repeatable by anybody.
Whereas you have assured me that you might have a secret closet where gravity has not been tested, and does not exist. So, Math and Science is not repeatable until we test the theories in your closet and everywhere. You contradict your own prior statements Tao.

Do I? Well there is no surprise there as i find a lot of contradictions in science. But they are still fractional compared to the hypocrisy of your average Christian.
I already stated a Bose-Einstein condensate can defy gravity by flowing uphill. It can also slow a photon from lightspeed down to 5 meters per second, yet it will return to lightspeed as soon as it is through. What does your old tome say to explain that...or Thomas Aquinas for that matter. And what does it say about conservation of energy / thermodynamics?

tao
 

cyberpi

Interfaith Forums
Messages
1,437
Reaction score
0
Points
0
That is an interesting religion you express Tao and I can relate because I have studied modern physics in college and in my personal time, and also because I believe that you have never really performed the experiment. Am I right? From you, it is a religion.

Here is another experiment that I found to be rewarding in ways that I had never anticipated. Seek out someone who really needs help and who can never repay you, and devise methods to personally help them in ways that they never anticipated or asked for. Then keep the eyes peeled because someone might actually find you and help you in ways that you never anticipated. I tell you... I have seen some of the most awe inspiring things with some sort of law there and it does appear to be something very worth experimenting with. I don't speak as a hypocrite either, rather someone who is onto something worth exploring.

I would say though that it is wise to not develop expectations, especially when trying to help others in ways that they do not expect. I was thinking today that a person really has to be patient. I learned from information theory that it was the surprise that actually conveys the greatest information to a person, and so I have come to enjoy surprises. But a surprise can be disappointing to a person who has developed their own expectations. Equally a person in low or needy places will have expectations which you probably don't wish to serve either. I confess though that once a law or attribute like gravity is discovered, I tend to wish to explore it further and this one does appear to be very repeatable and worth further study.
 

esa888

Dreamer
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
sheffield, uk
Faith is a product of belief, if one is to believe then
you must have been, either told this is the truth
and accept or have knowledge of this matter.

If said faith is only a product of belief, then that is
all it must be , there is a big difference. To know
is that difference.

Our minds are very strong and creative, if we have
such a strong need for something our minds can create
this for us, the trick is to get beyond the words and scripture's
and complicated idea's we have.

This is the problem i have with our world religions , i still think
that we are all the more richer for them, but the simple truth's are buried
within over a thousand years of men's idea's and concept's.

There are no set ways to learn about spiritual matters, all i myself
can do is to remain open.
 

noctuary

Mercurial Goddess
Messages
77
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
here, with you
I see that faith is more than believe, because a person is more than flesh.

Do you believe in being faithful?
I believe in being faithful in the non spiritual/religious sense to my boyfriend etc. You can google faithful to see what I mean.
As for faith? No. I don't have faith or hope. I am bi-polar. You figure that out. :)
 

chron

Active Member
Messages
32
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Chicago, IL
I'm bi-polar, too, btw.

Seems I have to keep reminding people on this thread what the topic is:

Faith, whether or not you believe in it, is something that does exist. It's treated differently from most all other areas of life, IMO. The question is, Why is faith worthy of a different standard? Why isn't it held to standards of reason as most all other things in life seem to be?

I find a lot of people on this thread that think they need to share with me what faith is, but I believe I have a handle on that.

Then there are those who feel the need to convince me that I should "have faith."

But all I really want is an explanation of the questions above.

Still hoping someone can explain it.

btw, saying you don't believe in faith doesn't mean it doesn't exist, of course. I think you'd be more accurate and precise to say that there is no place for faith in your life, or that you don't believe that faith does any good, or doesn't work.
 

noctuary

Mercurial Goddess
Messages
77
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
here, with you
I'm bi-polar, too, btw.

Seems I have to keep reminding people on this thread what the topic is:

Faith, whether or not you believe in it, is something that does exist. It's treated differently from most all other areas of life, IMO. The question is, Why is faith worthy of a different standard? Why isn't it held to standards of reason as most all other things in life seem to be?

I find a lot of people on this thread that think they need to share with me what faith is, but I believe I have a handle on that.

Then there are those who feel the need to convince me that I should "have faith."

But all I really want is an explanation of the questions above.

Still hoping someone can explain it.

btw, saying you don't believe in faith doesn't mean it doesn't exist, of course. I think you'd be more accurate and precise to say that there is no place for faith in your life, or that you don't believe that faith does any good, or doesn't work.
No. I think my direct statement of I don't believe in faith works just well for me.
I never made mention if it is real or not. I simply stated I don't believe in it. And that's MY accurate statement.
 

chron

Active Member
Messages
32
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Chicago, IL
No. I think my direct statement of I don't believe in faith works just well for me.
I never made mention if it is real or not. I simply stated I don't believe in it. And that's MY accurate statement.
So we're saying essentially the same thing, I think.

The problem occurs because the word "believe" can mean "accept something as true" and also "to hold something as an opinion."

I didn't mean to say you didn't know what you were talking about. Please forgive if I've offended.
 

noctuary

Mercurial Goddess
Messages
77
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
here, with you
So we're saying essentially the same thing, I think.

The problem occurs because the word "believe" can mean "accept something as true" and also "to hold something as an opinion."

I didn't mean to say you didn't know what you were talking about. Please forgive if I've offended.
It's ok. I do think we are saying the same thing actually.:)
 

Bruno's logic

Agnostic/Panthiest
Messages
76
Reaction score
0
Points
0
What to do, indeed?

For me, there is this to do: ask questions, seek truth, engage in dialog and conversation with those who care about this topic, learn from them, consider, revise, go on, and on, and on.

Coming back to my original question, which has yet to be answered, why is, in the mind of some, faith not a matter to be questioned? Exempt from the strictures of logical thought?

Hello Chron,
It seems we joined this forum at about the same time…

I can’t tell you why this is but I know it is true… You must have faith that I speak the truth… This fact must not be questioned by anyone for any reason…

The fact that organized religions tell us that we cannot question their irrational and unreasonable stories and sources is proof and evidence enough that they don’t have the answers to the questions that have always eluded humanity… What is this place? Why do I experience this place like I do? Do others experience this place?
Why?
Because if this knowledge is found out to be false then their power, their control, will be lost because people will be free to explore existence with an open mind until they happen onto the truth.

This next paragraph may very well be the actual truth of this place, this reality, but I can’t prove it to myself let alone anyone else, so this theory will have to be taken on faith without question…

An ancient entity has found the path to continued self awareness but is also all too aware of the danger that lies within free will. So when it encounters fledgling entities with free will (humanity) on the slippery slope that is lined with hate and fear, cruelty and lies whose path can only lead to some kind of dense 3 dimensional hellish place then this ancient entity does what it can to lead these ignorant spirits of space on the path of love and compassion, kindness and forgiveness, for this great spirit knows the answers to the elusive questions but understands that these babes of existence will need to evolve for a while before they too can understand anything more than…
“ Because I said it is better this way….”

I can’t prove this but the world would be a better place if everyone believed it so I am going to plant the seed here and hope that 6 billion people will accept it without question and have faith in the power of love and compassion, kindness and forgiveness, and so stop all of the stupid killing and hating and unnecessary suffering….
~Bruno
 
Top