Christmas on December 25th?

Discussion in 'Comparative Studies' started by Nick the Pilot, Nov 30, 2007.

  1. Hermes

    Hermes Zos Kia Cultus

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    you mean a new Avatar? Yes, it is coming....

    "Since Jesus is considered a higher spiritual being, an Avatar, by many astrologers, he embodies the highest aspects of Pisces: universal love, compassion, sacrifice, intuition, servanthood, martyrdom, and spirituality. Jesus represents the birth of non-ego (Pisces) from ego (Aries).
    Correlations are made between Jesus and the sign of Pisces. Pisces, meaning fish, is a water sign. There is much water and fish symbology in the Bible stories about Jesus, such as Jesus calling fishermen as disciples, being on the sea several times, calming the storm at sea, helping the disciples catch fish, performing miracles in feeding people with fish, walking on water, his baptism in water, and his talk with Nicodemus about being born again by "water and spirit."
    http://www.christiananswersforthenewage.org/Articles_Pisean3.html
     
  2. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Hermes,

    All of this brings up the subject of the Age of Aquarius. The symbol of Aquarius is the wave. Our entire civilization has been completely changed by a wave -- the electromagnetic wave -- electricity. I see the huge rise of electricity's importance in the last 100 years or so as a clear sign of the arriving of the Age of Aquarius.

    Considering that humanity has been around for untold thousands of years, modern science has only been around for maybe 200 years. Isn't that amazing? (Is it related to the arrival of the Age of Aquarius?)
     
  3. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    the washing machine..... without a washing machine a nation cannot liberate women from the drudgery of 'woman's work'... it took 10 minutes per article of clothing to wash, wring out and dry clothes.... the advent of the washing machine has freed millions of women....and in allowed them to rise to high offices in many countries and companies...

    now that is a wave.

    the invention that caused the biggest change worldwide....refrigeration....keeping food from spoiling....allowing folks to work in intolerable weather....freezing food for long term keeping and transport....

    of course electricity is often a component in both.
     
  4. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Dec 22 is with us once again, in this year of 2015. It's time to bump this thread once again.

    I would like to share one story about the historical St. Nicholas. One myth is how Santa slides down the chimney to give out presents (then, presumably, slides back up).

    One day the historical St. Nicholas wanted to give some money to a poor, young couple. For some reason, he did not want to go to their door and give it to them directly, so he wrapped some coins in a piece of cloth and dropped it down their chimney. This true story is where the "sliding down the chimney to give out presents" myth originated.
     
  5. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    The way I heard it, he used to toss coins through the window, or down the chimney when the windows were shuttered.

    But then there are other myths of other persons making similar gifts ...

    Perhaps this refers to an even older mythology, which relates to the hearth stone being the heart of the house ... but that's without any research ... but I do know that people used to place offerings under the hearthstone of a newly built house to attract good luck, ward off evil, etc.
     
  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I don't know when smoke.shelfs were invented... But ain't nobody crawling down or.throwing coims down any chimney the way I was taught to build them
     
  7. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Dec 22 is with us once again, this time in 2016. It's time to bump this thread for another year.
     
  8. Aussie Thoughts

    Aussie Thoughts Just my 2 cents

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    Christmas on December 25th?

    We were always taught that December 25 was not Jesus' birth date, but rather his date of conception. That being the actual miracle not the birth itself.

    The rationale behind that goes something like this. Mary's cousin Elizabeth (John’s mother) was 6 months pregnant when Jesus was conceived (Luke 1:24-36). Now John’s father, Zacharias, was a priest serving in the Jerusalem temple during the course of Abijah (Luke 1:5). It was during this time that Zacharias learned he and his wife, Elizabeth, would have a child (Luke 1:8-13). The Companion Bible, index 179 I believe, has one of those course dates corresponding to June 13-19 in that year. That being the case, Elizabeth would have been 6 months pregnant towards the end of December when Jesus was conceived. That places Jesus' actual birth date somewhere near the end of September, which tends to bear out accounts of Shepherds being in the field the night he was born (Luke 2:7-8). It is unlikely Shepherds would have been out in the field in December.

    Any road, one way or the other, Jesus is the reason for the season.

    Merry Christmas All!
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2016
  9. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    Yule was yesterday. Or actually last night.
     
  10. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I've seen the best guesses for his birth were between April and June... It is a secular thang today.. Toy and product sales, eggnog and cutting trees...
     
  11. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Not to make a big deal of the shepherds, but in that region, shepherds are with their flocks all year round. The idea that December was too cold for shepherds to be in the field is not now considered authoritative.

    Be that as it may, Aussie's conceived December/born September seems quite likely, and it fits symbolically with the Hebrew calendar.

    I still prefer the esoterist's 'cycles' idea that dominated mystical speculation of the time, that takes Christ's conception as being the same calendar time as His death, and this points to a December birth.

    The dating all hangs on 'the course of Abijah' (Luke 1:5), and chronologists tend to work this from the 24 courses, but it also appears the 24 were not strictly adhered to in the timeframe under review, and that we cannot be certain of the dates, so we'll never know.

    As for shepherds, this piece in Luke fits with the 'social justice' thrust of his theology: The first to know are not the high-born but the least-born, those who have to sleep out in the fields in all weathers protecting their flocks, in fact the last to know is Herod, the king!

    Again, 'an angel of the Lord stood by them' (Luke 2:9), shepherds and angels stand 'shoulder to shoulder'. They are the first to receive the news, it is they who take the news to the Holy Family, and it's news to them! "And they came with haste; and they found Mary and Joseph, and the infant lying in the manger. And seeing, they understood of the word that had been spoken to them concerning this child. And all that heard, wondered; and at those things that were told them by the shepherds. But Mary kept all these words, pondering them in her heart." (Luke 2:16-190.
     
  12. Devils' Advocate

    Devils' Advocate Well-Known Member

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    Okay now you really lost me. Christ died in December?????
     
  13. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I was lost for a minute as well.. I believe it was that Jesus was conceived the same time...34 years before he was resurected.

    But the shepards in the field with the flock as evidence was always silly... obviously by someone who has never seen shepards tending their flocks.

    The reference I recall to a spring birth were regarding the trip they were on...
     
  14. Nick the Pilot

    Nick the Pilot Well-Known Member

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    Wil,

    You said, "obviously by someone who has never seen shepards tending their flocks."

    --> It has been said that the Gospels were finally written down by Christian monks living in a monastery, centuries after the dates of the holy lands, and indeed probably had never sheen shepherds or even been to that part of the world. What date do you have as to when the Gospels were actually written down?
     
  15. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I referred to the shepards in the field because I lived where Basque shepards actually free roamed their sheep around the hills and not in pastures...all year round.

    As to the dates of the gospels ...without looking anything up...my recollection is 30 -90 years after the crucifixion...depending on the book...surely not centuries for any of them.
     
  16. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Been a while brother...good to see you back
     
  17. Aussie Thoughts

    Aussie Thoughts Just my 2 cents

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    Hey, shepherds are a strange lot. They are where I'm from anyway, but remember too, taxation had become mandatory and Joseph was on his way to register for the census in his home town. Just seems counterintuitive to conduct such a thing in the dead of winter. I mean, not the most optimal time of year for travel given the mode of transportation in those days. Of course, I'm sure that was hardly one of the king's considerations.
    That was my grandfather's thing. Just seemed more likely to him than not. I remember him getting hold of an old Bullinger's Bible one day and shouting out, "See, see? This's what Paps use to say!" Paps being my great, great grandfather. Who knows mate? Shepherds in the field. Census in winter. No smoking gun there. I just like the idea of celebrating the 25th as the miracle of Jesus' conception rather than his birth. (Luke 1:41) And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: Sends chills....
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2016
  18. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Middle east eh? Bethlehem... Where 40 is cold and 70 is hot...
     
  19. Aussie Thoughts

    Aussie Thoughts Just my 2 cents

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    Hell, where I'm from 40F is parka time!;)
     
  20. Thomas

    Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, no. Conceived about the same time as He died, March-April, a new Passover, born about nine months after conception, roughly December.
     

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