Discussion in 'Christianity' started by Azure24, Jan 3, 2008.
Yes Hell is a Hoax, and many have got to believe a hoax.
Is Paul speaking to Spirit-begotten believers in Romans 8? Does he say in verse 11 that the Spirit would “make your mortal bodies alive?”[FONT=Times New Roman,Times]
Phillips: I said that our nature is "dead" in the presence of Christ, and so it is, because of its sin. Nevertheless once the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead lives within you he will, by that same Spirit, bring to your whole being new strength and vitality. (Phillips: Touchstone)
Wuest: And assuming that the Spirit of the One who raised up Jesus out from among the dead is in residence in you, He who raised from among the dead Christ Jesus, will also make alive your mortal bodies through the agency of the Spirit who is resident in you. (Erdmans)
Young's Literal: and if the Spirit of Him who did raise up Jesus out of the dead doth dwell in you, He who did raise up the Christ out of the dead shall quicken also your dying bodies, through His Spirit dwelling in you.[/FONT]
No one goes to Heaven when they die also (to the sense most believe). The dead will re-awaken for God's judgement at the appointed time. It says this clearly.
A little flock will be going to heaven , but they have to die first, when they are resurrected they will be resurrected with a spirit body so they can live in heaven the same way that Jesus has a spirit body to live in heaven , and there will be 144,000 of them .
but for the most of mankind it will be the future earthly resurrection . JOHN 5;28-29
Jesus did say that he would have OTHER SHEEP not of the little flock fold John 10; 16. those other sheep are made up of those who have died and the great crowd that are spoken of in revelation 7;9-10 if any of the great crowd die before the GREAT DAY OF JEHOVAH then they will also be resurrected on the earth
yes he is speaking to the ones that will have a heavenly reward .and there are 144,000 of them and they will rule with Jesus in the heavenly kingdom. and Gods spirit is with them . and as luke 12;32 says they are a little flock
Yeah? And can you quote that?
Jesus will rule on EARTH!
"You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the EARTH." (Revelation 5:10)
Am I wrong?
This however is NOT for eternity!
"Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death". (Corinthians 15: 24-26)
we continue to live because God has given us not eternal life, but rather IMMORTALITY (which means 'death-less-ness').
"For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality". (Corinthians 15:53)
Read carefully and you will understand...
Like I said above quote it...
It is not possible to find a place away from God, for it is in Him that we "live move and have our being".
Immanence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Tzimtzum in the Kabbalistic theory
In Jewish Mysticism, Tzimtzum Hebrew: "contraction" or "constriction") refers to the notion in the Kabbalistic theory of creation that God "contracted" his infinite essence in order to allow for a "conceptual space" in which a finite, independent world could exist. The concept of Tzimtzum contains a built-in paradox, as it requires that God be simultaneously transcendent and immanent:
* On the one hand, if the "Infinite" did not restrict itself, then nothing could exist — everything would be ?
* On the other hand, God continuously maintains the existence of, and is thus not absent from, the created universe. "The Divine life-force which brings all creatures into existence must constantly be present within them ... were this life-force to forsake any created being for even one brief moment, it would revert to a state of utter nothingness, as before the creation ...".
I find it interesting that Hel or Hela (and other variations) is the name of the Norse goddess of the underworld. Her realm is described in Barbara Walker's The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets as "a uterine shrine or sacred cave of rebirth."
I think the christian concept of hell is a much maligned degradation of the state between death and rebirth. Instead of death being a gateway to transformation, christianity and other abrahamic religions have truncated it to the end of the life process, with a strange and stagnant afterworld awaiting the deceased in the form of either heaven or hell. Either you're stuck, bored on a cloud with a bunch of repressive puritans, or you are tortured by darkness and fire.
Yet there are many myths, not only the Norse, that have a dark or fiery place inside the earth where souls go to rest, frolic, and be reborn after death.
The word "hell" is found in many Bible translations. In the same verses other translations read "the grave," "the world of the dead," and so forth. Other Bibles simply transliterate the original-language words that are sometimes rendered "hell"; that is, they express them with the letters of our alphabet but leave the words untranslated. What are those words? The Hebrew she’ohl´ and its Greek equivalent hai´des, which refer, not to an individual burial place, but to the common grave of dead mankind; also the Greek ge´en·na, which is used as a symbol of eternal destruction.
However, both in Christendom and in many non-Christian religions it is taught that hell is a place inhabited by demons and where the wicked, after death, are punished (and some believe that this is with torment). but i am glad to say that this is not a bible teaching . yes many have been misled in a big way.
What, is difference....?
The difference is Hell is taught to be a place of eternal torture, that people (the majority) will eventually end up. Nobody's going to Heaven either. Most here (in this forum) know my views on this matter...
Thank you Azure. I agree 100%. Most people don't even realize that Jesus never taught that there is a place called hell where the unbelievers will be totured for all eternity. Most people don't know that the word hell was not intoduced into the bible untill the bible was translated into latin. Most people do not know that the prophets of the Old testament did not teach about hell. If hell was a real place where God would sentence non belivers I think He (God) would have instructed His prophets to warn and teach about such a place. Heres a great scripture that shows that not one person will be sent to eternal damnation. Also this scripture shows that everone will be saved.
1cor:13-15 Every man's work will be made manifest: for the day shall declear it. because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is, if and man's work abide which he hath bulit. Thereupon, he shall recieve a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED. yet by fire.
All one has to do is believe in the word of God. All one has to do is read every word that makes up this scripture and one can see that even though our works are destroyed by fire, we ourselves will be saved by fire. Not one mention of being sent to hell forever and ever. This scripture does not say that if any man's work is burned he shall suffer loss and be sent to hell and burn forever and ever. (Does it)? NO, it does not. There are many more scriptures that prove that no one will be sent to a hell to be tortured forever and ever. So many people are indoctranated in this man made false traditions. If one would think for a min. about a loving God that is the perfect judge that knows the end from the beginning, When He created man He knew before He even created us which ones would be tortured in hell or end up in heaven in total bliss. If there were such places. What kind of god would create a person knowing that that person will end up in hell. Sorry My God IS LOVE and would never do such a thing. My God is about correcting the wrong, How is one being corrected by being sent to a torture chamber for eternity? Also if one would think about the word eternity. Trillions and billions and millions of yrs being burned and tortured. What kind of loving God would do that to His creations? Just take a match and hold the fire on your finger, see how long you can hold it for, see how painful it is. Now imagin that feeling for a trillions of yrs. Yea right. No, The God I worship and believe in sees this has no benifit for man. My God is not unjust. My God teaches and corrects, My God chastises for correction. My God IS PURE LOVE. Any god that would do such a thing is not fit to worship. for it would be pure evil to send a person to such a place. No not My Lord and Saviour.
Two years, six months, twenty-seven days, 4 hours, eighteen minutes and twent-one seconds and finally, someone agrees with me...
and here's some more...
When a man dies his soul goes to the unseen or imperceptible [Gk: hades, Heb: sheol]. We also know that when man is in this condition (dead) it is likened to "sleep" (Psa. 13:3, Dan. 12:1-2, Jn. 11:11-14). God Himself likens death to sleep,
"The Lord said unto Moses [concerning his imminent death], Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers ... " (Deut. 31:16)
"The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything" (Ecc. 9:5,6).
" ... for there is no work, nor device [contrivance, intelligence, reason], nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in sheol." (Ecc. 9:10).
Is everyone saved? I've been writing this for years. What did Christ once say...
"How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? ... even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish." (Matt. 18: 12 & 14)
...and if it is the will of our Father that us little ones should not perish then it will be done!!
"Telling from the beginning, the hereafter, And from aforetime, what has not yet been done. Saying, 'All My counsel shall be confirmed, And ALL MY DESIRE WILL I DO. Calling from the sunrise, a bird of prey, From a land far off, the man of My counsel. Indeed, I speak! Indeed, I will bring it about! I formed. Indeed, I WILL DO IT."
Azure24: Yes Hell a place where God will send non believers for all eternity is nothing but an unscriptural myth. It doesn't take much to research the word hell and see that it was not introduce into the bible until the bible was translated into latin. Also the prophets in the O.T. never taught about hell being a place of torture forever. Jesus never taught about hell being a place where God will send non believers to be tortured. Also if one would think about real hard they would see that a God of pure love and is all merciful and is rightgous and is the perfect judge who gave His only Son to be a sarcifice for all mankind would ever send a person to a place like hell. People are taught about hell from man and man's teachings, from man's traditions, not from the word of God.
Not definitively, but it sure sounds appealing of you believe you're gonna be one of the ones with a back-stage pass, doesn't it Mee?
Please Marsh and soliel10 explain this scripture to me.
1cor 3:13-15 each one's work will become clear. for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. if anyone's work which he has bulit on it endures, he will receive a rewartd, if anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss, (but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire). This last part, but he himself will be saved yet so as through fire. Himself will be saved. What does this say to you? Where is does it say that but he himself will burn it hell forever and ever?? Just a thought, please ansewer the question? What does this scripture say to you??
There is a big difference Alex. Hell is a man made mythical place that is unscriptural. earth is a real physical place where satan roams to and fro looking to devoure man like a lion. And the ones who teach such a place (hell) is teaching lies.
Say's who me?? OR mee...
Marsh, you do not seem to understand that mankind (including myself), cannot receive any praise...All power is of God!!!
"There is NO MAN that has power over the spirit to retain the spirit..."(Ecc. 8:8)
And by the way. All men will have "a back-stage pass" as you put it...
"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED" (I Tim.2:4).
"My counsel shall stand, and I WILL DO ALL My pleasure.
I have spoken it, I WILL also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it, I WILL also do it" (Isaiah 46:10-11).
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