identified

[mee]

Identifying “Babylon the Great”

THE book of Revelation contains expressions that are not to be understood literally. (Revelation 1:1) For example, it mentions a woman with the name “Babylon the Great” written on her forehead. This woman is said to be sitting on “crowds and nations.” (Revelation 17:1, 5, 15) Since no literal woman could do this, Babylon the Great must be symbolic. So, what does this symbolic harlot represent?

At Revelation 17:18, the same figurative woman is described as “the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.” The term “city” indicates an organized group of people. Since this “great city” has control over “the kings of the earth,” the woman named Babylon the Great must be an influential organization that is international in scope. It can rightly be called a world empire. What kind of empire? A religious one. Notice how some related passages in the book of Revelation lead us to this conclusion.

An empire can be political, commercial, or religious. The woman named Babylon the Great is not a political empire because God’s Word states that “the kings of the earth,” or the political elements of this world, “committed fornication” with her. Her fornication refers to the alliances she has made with the rulers of this earth and explains why she is called “the great harlot.”—Revelation 17:1, 2; James 4:4.

Babylon the Great cannot be a commercial empire because the “merchants of the earth,” representing the commercial elements, will be mourning her at the time of her destruction. In fact, both kings and merchants are described as looking at Babylon the Great from “a distance.” (Revelation 18:3, 9, 10, 15-17) Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that Babylon the Great is, not a political or a commercial empire, but a religious one.

The religious identity of Babylon the Great is further confirmed by the statement that she misleads all the nations by means of her “spiritistic practice.” (Revelation 18:23) Since all forms of spiritism are demon-inspired, it is not surprising that the Bible calls Babylon the Great “a dwelling place of demons.” (Revelation 18:2; Deuteronomy 18:10-12) This empire is also described as being actively opposed to true religion, persecuting “prophets” and “holy ones.” (Revelation 18:24) In fact, Babylon the Great has such deep hatred for true religion that she violently persecutes and even murders “the witnesses of Jesus.” (Revelation 17:6) Hence, this woman named Babylon the Great clearly represents the world empire of false religion, which includes all religions that stand in opposition to Jehovah God.

 

[juantoo3]

Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that Babylon the Great is, not a political or a commercial empire, but a religious one.

I suppose it depend how one defines "reasonable."

The religious identity of Babylon the Great is further confirmed by the statement that she misleads all the nations by means of her “spiritistic practice.” (Revelation 18:23) Since all forms of spiritism are demon-inspired, it is not surprising that the Bible calls Babylon the Great “a dwelling place of demons.” (Revelation 18:2; Deuteronomy 18:10-12) This empire is also described as being actively opposed to true religion, persecuting “prophets” and “holy ones.” (Revelation 18:24) In fact, Babylon the Great has such deep hatred for true religion that she violently persecutes and even murders “the witnesses of Jesus.” (Revelation 17:6) Hence, this woman named Babylon the Great clearly represents the world empire of false religion, which includes all religions that stand in opposition to Jehovah God.

Using the same "reasoning" used above to eliminate a nation or a commercial enterprise as the Whore of Revelations, it is equally easy to eliminate (a) religion(s)...otherwise why does the Beast have a False Prophet to sing his praises and aid and abet to the end of Jacob's troubles?

Frankly, I have a suspicion the Whore is indeed a nation...and just which nation is probably not to be well received particularly by its inhabitants. If the prophecy is true, then that nation will fall in one day, and not by the hand of humans.

 

[mee]

I suppose it depend how one defines "reasonable."


Using the same "reasoning" used above to eliminate a nation or a commercial enterprise as the Whore of Revelations, it is equally easy to eliminate (a) religion(s)...otherwise why does the Beast have a False Prophet to sing his praises and aid and abet to the end of Jacob's troubles?

Frankly, I have a suspicion the Whore is indeed a nation...and just which nation is probably not to be well received particularly by its inhabitants. If the prophecy is true, then that nation will fall in one day, and not by the hand of humans.

A FALSE PROPHET , is a counterfeit and claims to be what it is not , so the question is, what is the false prophet.



The wild beast and the false prophet are political entities and are a part of Satan’s visible organization. (Revelation 13:1, 2, 11-14; 16:13, 14) They meet their end at Armageddon, when God’s Kingdom crushes and puts an end to all the kingdoms of the world. (Daniel 2:44)



so who claims to bring peace to the earth ?



Jehovah’s Witnesses firmly believe that the United Nations is going to play a major role in world events in the very near future. No doubt these developments will be very exciting. And the results will have a far-reaching impact on our life.



The Bible clearly paints a picture showing that the United Nations will very shortly be given power and authority. The UN will then do some very astonishing things that may well amaze you.


And you will be thrilled to learn that there is yet a better way near at hand that will surely bring eternal peace and security! Daniel 2;44



The Bible presents a different view. It shows that the Prince of Peace is Jesus Christ. He will bring global peace, not through the efforts of this world’s political or religious leaders, but by means of God’s Kingdom. It is this Kingdom—God’s heavenly government—that will successfully unite obedient mankind and cause God’s will to be done on earth.—Isaiah 9:6; Matthew 6:9, 10.

 

[juantoo3]

A FALSE PROPHET , is a counterfeit and claims to be what it is not , so the question is, what is the false prophet.



The wild beast and the false prophet are political entities

I'm sorry mee, but this flies in the face of what you just said about reasoning and reasonable.

Think about it, rather than mindlessly cut and pasting:

False *PROPHET*, which by all implications suggest a religion or religious affiliation. The Prophet is *not* a political entity in the strict sense of the term, it does not represent a nation or group of nations. That much is pretty explicit.

 

[juantoo3]

They meet their end at Armageddon, when God’s Kingdom crushes and puts an end to all the kingdoms of the world. (Daniel 2:44)

Actually, they meet their end even sooner if I recall correctly. Har-Megiddo doesn't come about until the end of the Millenial reign.

so who claims to bring peace to the earth ?

OK, it's been awhile, and I have heard so many interpretations that I gave up trying to fully decipher it all. As I recall:

There will be a series of calamities that will force the world into a political union of some kind behind a charasmatic leader who will be reinforced by a "religious" leader. This charasmatic leader will in time appear to work miracles, to the point that the majority of the world will come to acknowledge this person as "god." For a short period (3-6 months) everything will seem so hunky dory that everyone will wonder what any fuss was about. Then all hell breaks loose.

Here's where a whole lot of interpretations diverge: some think they will be raptured away from any hard times, some think the era will be ushered in through unprecedented peace and prosperity, and some think it will be ushered by war or overwhelming natural catastrophy.

Some think the time of Jacob's Troubles will last almost 7 years, and some think that "for the elect's sake" the time is shortened, to 3 1/2 years or less.

And then the heavenly host ride in on their chariots and bannish the bad guy to the pit for a thousand years (to be released at that time), while his comrades are sent to the pit for good, along with everybody who went along with their shenanigans.

Jehovah’s Witnesses firmly believe that the United Nations is going to play a major role in world events in the very near future. No doubt these developments will be very exciting. And the results will have a far-reaching impact on our life.

The Bible clearly paints a picture showing that the United Nations will very shortly be given power and authority. The UN will then do some very astonishing things that may well amaze you.

The John Birch Society is anti-UN too, do the JW's ally themselves with the JBS?

It used to be, not that long ago, that the ten horned beast was interpreted freely to mean the European Common Market...at least until they quickly got more than 10 members signed up. For all we know it could be NATO, or ANZUS, or some other political union...I don't think we'll have any clear indication until it is well under way, the fog will be just that thick...by G-d's will.

And you will be thrilled to learn that there is yet a better way near at hand that will surely bring eternal peace and security! Daniel 2;44

I *am* thrilled, by the Bible, not the watchtower.

The Bible presents a different view. It shows that the Prince of Peace is Jesus Christ. He will bring global peace, not through the efforts of this world’s political or religious leaders, but by means of God’s Kingdom. It is this Kingdom—God’s heavenly government—that will successfully unite obedient mankind and cause God’s will to be done on earth.—Isaiah 9:6; Matthew 6:9, 10.

G-d's will *will* be done, on earth as in heaven, regardless of man's interpretations or attempted interference. What we should pray for, in my humble opinion, is to be held within His will so that our eyes will not continually be deceived, that we will have a clear indication of what road not to travel, that the way into the wilderness for protection will not be barred to us. At the same time, we should pray to be always at the ready, to move at a moment's notice, because the safe passage will not last long. The dragon waits to devour the child as it is born...let him with eyes see, and him with ears hear and understand.

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Revelation 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Revelation 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Revelation 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

Revelation 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[mee]

I'm sorry mee, but this flies in the face of what you just said about reasoning and reasonable.

Think about it, rather than mindlessly cut and pasting:

False *PROPHET*, which by all implications suggest a religion or religious affiliation. The Prophet is *not* a political entity in the strict sense of the term, it does not represent a nation or group of nations. That much is pretty explicit.

i find it interesting that people put their trust in manmade organizations when looking for peace on earth ,

yes the one thing that we should be looking to for peace is the one thing they dont look to Daniel 2;44 . Gods heavenly kingdom is the way to peace on the earth and putting our trust in the right thing is the way to go .

and even the ones claiming to represent the God of the bible are looking to the wrong thing . even claiming that it is the political exppresion of God on the earth . but those who are not misled do not put their trust in the wrong thing they look to the right thing Daniel 2;44

 

[mee]

I *am* thrilled, by the Bible, not the watchtower.


G-d's will *will* be done, on earth as in heaven, regardless of man's interpretations or attempted interference. What we should pray for, in my humble opinion, is to be held within His will so that our eyes will not continually be deceived, that we will have a clear indication of what road not to travel, that the way into the wilderness for protection will not be barred to us. At the same time, we should pray to be always at the ready, to move at a moment's notice, because the safe passage will not last long. The dragon waits to devour the child as it is born...let him with eyes see, and him with ears hear and understand.

Yes i am also thrilled by the bible and the hope for the earth .

and i really enjoy knowing that Gods heavenly kingdom will bring peace to the earth daniel 2;44.

and regardless of what mans plans and schemes think up , Gods way will come to be matthew 6;9-10

the male child spoken of in the book of revelation has been born ,and it has Gods protection. and it is GODS HEAVENLY KINGDOM. And the book of revelation is being revealed and uncovered. LET HIM WHO HAS EARS LISTEN

 

[mee]

Har-Megiddo doesn't come about until the end of the Millenial reign.



quote]
The wild beast and the false prophet are political entities and are a part of Satan’s visible organization. (Revelation 13:1, 2, 11-14; 16:13, 14) They meet their end at Armageddon, when God’s Kingdom crushes and puts an end to all the kingdoms of the world. (Daniel 2:44)



the end of the thousand year reign of christ , will be when we are in a perfect state .


its only when the opposers are out the way, that Gods kingdom can rule without interference .

so the first to go will be false religion and Jehovah can use whomever he wishes to fullfill his purpose . that will be the start of the GREAT TRIBULATION


The Bible book of Revelation answers: "God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought." (Revelation 17:17) Yes, God will call false religion to account for all the despicable acts she has committed in his name. In a stroke of perfect justice, he will use her political paramours as his instrument of execution.

 

[Bruce Michael]

the end of the thousand year reign of christ , will be when we are in a perfect state .


its only when the opposers are out the way, that Gods kingdom can rule without interference .

Consider this Mee:
According to the Watchtower, the Gentile Times began when Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE, lasted 2,520 years, and ended in 1914, (see Aid To Bible Understanding,pp. 94-96).

If this is true then who besides the Watchtower says Jerusalem fell in 607 BC? Why do all history scholars say it fell in 586/587 BC?

 

[mee]

Consider this Mee:
According to the Watchtower, the Gentile Times began when Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE, lasted 2,520 years, and ended in 1914, (see Aid To Bible Understanding,pp. 94-96).

If this is true then who besides the Watchtower says Jerusalem fell in 607 BC? Why do all history scholars say it fell in 586/587 BC?

When did the counting of the "seven times" begin? After Zedekiah, the last king in the typical Kingdom of God, was removed from the throne in Jerusalem by the Babylonians. (Ezek. 21:25-27) Finally, by early October of 607 B.C.E. the last vestige of Jewish sovereignty was gone. By that time the Jewish governor, Gedaliah, who had been left in charge by the Babylonians, had been assassinated, and the remaining Jews had fled to Egypt. (Jeremiah, chapters 40-43) Reliable Bible chronology indicates that this took place 70 years before 537 B.C.E., the year in which the Jews returned from captivity; that is, it took place by early October of 607 B.C.E. (Jer. 29:10; Dan. 9:2;