Challenge - Prove it!!

Discussion in 'Comparative Studies' started by Muslimwoman, Jan 26, 2008.

  1. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    To justify the currency exchange rate? I don't know, I'm guessing here...

    BTW, what is the price of tea in China these days, anyway?
     
  2. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    Not often I feel envy but I envy you that!!

    The way my head wraps itself round that question may be my misconception but here goes. The interior of a black hole is a massive blob of superfluid in quantum state. That means that there is no atomic scale influences, like gravity, at play. But the potential of that gravity is expressed close to it, up until the event horizon is breeched in fact. Does that make sense? So rotational spin is still expressed outwith the black hole but on the inside quantum uncertainty holds sway. In such a place spin is only a potential.

    I see your point if you hold it that the ejections are composed of material from the black hole interior. But if you take it that this black hole material is actually in a state of quantum uncertainty then the polarity of ejections makes no sense. On the other hand if it was an effect of the ejection of exotic matter from a cosmic string it may well be that the whole spin of the parent galaxy is determined by the position from which the string comes. These ejections therefore form at the point of least resistance, (away from the galactic plane), and what we "see" as galaxies, are actually only the "spillage". Imagine a Super String as a high pressure hosepipe. When the water is flowing and hits the ground, (in the early universe this was a uniform blanket of dark matter), it will, dependent on direction of aim, form two major deflective jets at poles to each other and a small cloud of lower energy water. Of course the ejecting String matter is pouring into 3 dimensional space not hitting a 2 dimensional surface. The pressure of the quantum state black hole is like trying to put a cork in the end of that hosepipe, until it is fully in then we will see jets of escaping matter, (its important to remember that this matter emanates as "exotic" mater but in nano-seconds decays into the high energy bursts we observe). The bursts of energy we see around more stable, older SMBH's I think is caused in a different way. In those we are looking at the energy released in the massive scale collision with that brick wall to an egg relationship between matter and the event horizon.

    Tao
     
  3. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    lol, I like it... the flatpack universe theory.:D
     
  4. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    I can hardly believe my eyes. I was just searching on related issues and came across this: Giant ropes of dark matter found in new sky survey - space - 21 February 2008 - New Scientist Space

    Synchronicity strikes!! Its when things like this happen I really begin to believe in Gaia's ability to communicate ideas to interested parties.

    Tao
     
  5. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    lol, The first time I heard string theory stuff it reminded me about the connectedness of it all. Last night I was dreaming about us visualizing our connectedness, but we were all so connected with each other with everything that when you saw the connections you completely loss sight of the individual, or the walls, floors, computers, chairs, trees etc. So if you focused on one entity you could then see the connections to the others. But they weren't strings. It was like a scientist working in a sterile box, where he walks up to an elastic wall and then inserts his hands into the gloves so he can manipulate things in the sterile environment whilst standing outside.

    Except the gloves are not formed are not there, there is only this elastic membrane which is invisible so all we see is the hands extending into the box. And this applies to everything, everything is G!D expressing in 3D, everything is G!d reaching thru the membrane, the fabric of this plane and expressing in form, we just don't see how we are all connected to source...

    great dream...
     
  6. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    Sounds like it!! And I often have a similar feeling when musing totalities. Its a trip! :)

    Tao
     
  7. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

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    This article doesn't prove which came first, the dark matter, or the luminous matter. A link from that same page: Galaxy without dark matter puzzles astronomers
    What do you call an absence of darkness? Dark matter is supposed to be spread throughout the universe, but a new study reports a spiral galaxy that seems to be empty of the stuff, and astrophysicists cannot easily explain why.
    (continued at link)​
     
  8. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    I love that last line : " Some of our missing mass is missing!".

    Off the top of my head I have 3 things that may account for these observations. First they may be wrong. But given that they are correct I can see two reasons that may account for this.

    When in the early formation of this galaxy there was an unusually large outpouring of energy that pushed the dark matter halo further than usual. (It may be that "halo" is the wrong way to look at dark matter distribution tho. Perhaps soup would be a more accurate visual image.
    (( this soup is the 'fabric' of our brane.)) And that the galaxies formed "heat" bubbles in that soup.) What we may be observing then is a galaxy who's birth was powerful enough to cause a shockwave that pushed the local dark matter further than usual.

    The second one is that this galaxy was born slightly after others in its locality that had already pushed the dark matter away from where it was born. Leaving a kind of vacuum.

    Whatever the truth it is an interesting object.

    Tao
     
  9. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Hey Tao!

    I started to post a few thoughts about the inner workings of a black hole and how rotation would expedite the process, and somehow I clicked the wrong button and lost about a half hour's writing. I'm beat, I'll have to try again later if I don't lose my thought. Sorry.

    In the meantime, here's a little bit to whet your appetite:

    setting the record straight on black holes

    SELECTED PUBLICATIONS
    Williams, R. K.,`Extracting X-Rays, Gamma-Rays, and Relativistic Electron-Positron Pairs from Supermassive Kerr Black Holes Using the Penrose Mechanism, Physical Review D, 51, No. 10, 5387-5427 (1995).
    Williams, R. K., `Production of the High Energy-Momentum Spectra of Quasars 3C 279 and 3C 273 Using the Penrose Mechanism, submitted to The Astrophysical Journal May 1995; resubmitted May 1999; accepted.
    Williams, R. K., Penrose Processes and the Gravitomagnetic Field, in The 8th Marcel Grossmann Meeting On Recent Developments in Theoretical and Experimental General Relativity, Gravitation, and Relativistic Field Theories, Proceedings of The 8th Marcel Grossmann Meeting, held at The Hebrew University, Jerusalem, Israel, 22-27 June 1997 (eds. Piran, T. and Ruffini R.) 416-418 (World Scientific, Singapore. 1999).
    Williams, R. K., Extracting Energy-Momentum from Rotating Black Holes Using the Penrose Mechanism, Bulletin of the American Physical Society, 44, No. 6, 35 (1999).
    Williams, R. K., High Energy-Momentum Extraction from Rotating Black Holes Using the Penrose Mechanism, Bulletin of the American Astronomical Society, 31, No. 5 (1999).
    Reva Kay Williams
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2008
  10. Muslimwoman

    Muslimwoman Coexistence insha'Allah

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    You are right Snoopy but it is the insistence that 'gang A is right and gang B is wrong' that has caused the mess. What I am suggesting is that when gang A can prove without doubt that they are right then and only then can they shove it down everyone elses throats but until that time they should accept that their beliefs are entirely personal and unprovable.

    As far as I can see, pretty much so. :( No doubt in good time I shall be joining them :)
     
  11. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    Thats a real bummer when that happens :(.

    Your teacher does some very interesting work, it must have been a thrill to go to her class. She's a bit of a babe too ;)

    It is a shame that the whole of her paper is not available online, I have searched, as the intro is tantalising. Penrose radiation tho, as I understand it, is a product of the chaotic and massive energy transfers that are taking place, and the resulting warping of space time, at the event horizon and are limited to the universe where relativistic laws hold sway. Relativity breaks down beyond the event horizon and any laws that exist there are more akin or perhaps are the same ones that govern the quantum level of reality. This kind of tetrad formalism that describes gravitational radiation all stems from Einsteins Field Equations that pose questions on how things behave on the 'plane' of the universe, in this case the effect that such a massive object exerts on the fabric of that plane, but does not deal with the interior make up of the object itself. So while it is very very interesting without having a good explanation of how exactly the energy is created for the polar jets, which are massive and can extend 4 or more galactic diameters from source, I will hold onto my own little pet theory :p Perhaps the full paper does account for all the energy so my hold may not last long, if not it was nice while it lasted :D

    Regards

    Tao
     
  12. Snoopy

    Snoopy Active Member

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    It'll be great for doing crumpets! :p

    s.
     
  13. _Z_

    _Z_ from far far away

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    we cannot prove that anything exists, apparently everything is subjective. nevertheless i know that the cup of coffee i sip from exists. i know that everything i am and everything is, must be mirrored in the ultimate nature of the whole.

    islam is as valid as any other understanding of god, as with them all though we must look with them and also beyond them. did god only start teaching man when christ was born? i cannot believe he would neglect us so, in fact throughout religious history god has been bringing us closer to the truth. that trend is never ending, as things change so a new truth must be found.
     
  14. Ciel

    Ciel in essence

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    Hi Z,
    Is it that truth is something to be found or is it that truth is given and released at a certain time because a new octave arises and this incorporates new perception allowing the conceptual quality of truth reborn between above and below.

    - c -
     
  15. _Z_

    _Z_ from far far away

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    ciel hi

    i would agree with the latter. i imagine it as infinite intellect would resolve all matters in less than an instant. being the base of all it follows that truth like any evolution follows a road, it unfolds as it develops, that is to say that; even though we have truth to begin with, as the world unfolds so must truth with it. we must begin at a before reaching b even though a and b already ‘exist’.
     
  16. Ciel

    Ciel in essence

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    How about...... at the point of lift off there are no further buttons to press, the elevator is already preprogramed for the elevation.

    - c -
     
  17. _Z_

    _Z_ from far far away

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    pre-programmed is the same as pre-destined, it allows for no flow nor interaction. a world like that would be robotic and mechanical, personally i think god would design [if so] a universe with some kind of point to it, rather than one where everything goes like clockwork.

    we are here to learn as much as be, we cannot do that without existing in a comparative world.
     
  18. Ciel

    Ciel in essence

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    Pre-programmed in my understanding allows for possibility, the process of life lived is the take up or put down towards a certain point of ultimate flow. Hardly clockwork though timeing is everything. In a universal elevation, in subtle but profound change,few may even notice, yet those who do would be aware of the upgrade in perception. Thus the point.
    The comparison is formed in one's own life, realizing self, the inner, the first step to the realizing of others, the outer. I never found comparisons worked too well, where as realizations come with the compliment of an "Ah This" factor. Less judgement, more joy.

    - c -
     
  19. _Z_

    _Z_ from far far away

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    sure, if we think in terms of laws principles and guides the program can allow for difference and flow. my point was only that if absolutely everything was programmed then that would be like clockwork even though we would in our ignorance perceive it as fluid.

    absolutely! :) for me there is no other truth than the magic. words come after and must be disregarded when in contradiction to that magic.
     
  20. Ciel

    Ciel in essence

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    Z,
    I send you the champagne marmite award. :)

    - c -
     

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