Can I have you for dinner?

Discussion in 'Introductions' started by Lecter, Jan 27, 2008.

  1. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    good spiritual food leads to the real life .


    This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. JOHN 17;3



    the true God is this one


    That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
    You alone are the Most High over all the earth.
    psalm 83;18




    and his son is Jesus christ
    JOHN 3;16
     
  2. Lecter

    Lecter Fundamentalist

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    Amen

    And his son David: "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me (King David, King), Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee" Psalms 2:7

    And his son Jacob: "Israel is my son, even my firstborn" Exodus 4:22

    And his son Solomon: "He shall build an house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son" 2 Samuel 7:13-14

    And his son Ephraim: "for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn." Jeremiah 31:9


    And his son Adam: "Adam, which was the son of God." Luke 3:38

    And his son you (and everyone else):
    "Ye are the children of the LORD your God" Deuteronomy 14:1

    "Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: ... now are we the sons of God" 1 John 3:1-2


    How many sons does god have again?

    The Jews wrote the title son of god meaning someone who is loyal and devoted to god almighty, that is why the title is given to lots of god's servants. As for Jesus, he was indeed unique, I have no problem in describing him as a unique loyal servant of god, for that he truly was. :)
     
  3. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    He certainly was unique, he was the first thing that Jehovah created ,
    he was the FIRST-BORN of creation .

    And he was the only one that was sent down from heaven to the earth , Jesus had a pre-human life in the heavens with his father Jehovah before he was born on the earth , so he is unique.



    So before being born on earth as a man Jesus had been in heaven as a mighty spirit person.

    He had a spirit body invisible to man, just as God has. (John 4:24)

    Jesus himself often spoke of the high position he had held in heaven. Once he prayed: "Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was." (John 17:5)

    He also said to his listeners: "You are from the realms below; I am from the realms above." "What, therefore, if you should behold the Son of man ascending to where he was before?" "Before Abraham came into existence, I have been."—John 8:23; 6:62; 8:58; 3:13; 6:51.



    yes even before Abraham was born Jesus was around in heaven .
     
  4. Joedjr

    Joedjr A Sometimes Member

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    Hi Mee,

    This is from the NASB. John 1:
    1:In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with G!d, and the Word was G!d.
    2:He was in the beginning with God.
    3:All things came into being through Him, and apart form Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

    Seems the Word was around before Creation.



    Here's John 4:
    23:"But and hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His Worshipers.
    24:"G!d is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."

    John 4:24 talks about G!d not Jesus.

    Joe
     
  5. Lecter

    Lecter Fundamentalist

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    What do you mean when saying that Jesus is god's son as opposed to someone he created amongst other creation of god?

    Like what do you mean by the word son? What are you implying?

    And please give me a simple answer in plain English, I am afraid English isn't my first language. And don't quote scripture, I want to hear what you have to say about this.

    :)
     
  6. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    yes you are quite correct to say that this verse is speaking about God Jehovah , the point i was making was that just as Jehovah is a spirit in heaven so also Jesus in his pre-human life was in the form of spirit because he lived in heaven with his father Jehovah .

    he had a pre-human life in heaven before he was sent to the earth

    and as PROVERBS 8;30 mentions .......

    then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time,


    yes as JOHN 1;1 tells us the word or LOGOS was there in the beginning of creation , Jesus in his pre-human exsistence as the FIRST-BORN of all creation was there when all other things were created. in fact ALL other things were created through Jesus and he was a master worker. but the first born of Jehovahs creations was Jesus . thats why Jesus is called the ONLY-BEGOTTEN son of God . he was the ONLY ONE created by Jehovah alone . everything else was created through Jesus . Yes Jesus was in the beginning of the creation of God , he was around and had a part in it

    thats why in Genesis 1;26 it says LET US make man



    he was talking to his son his first-born of creation
     
  7. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    LOL Thats the problem ,people have gone away from scripture and instead have their own thoughts not inline with the bible
     
  8. Joedjr

    Joedjr A Sometimes Member

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    Hi Mee,

    The thing is Mee, the quotes and the explanation and prophecy that you use on this forum also come from the same place: the minds of men. Whether the thought is this century, last or 20 centuries ago it still comes from the minds of men. It's your personal belief that the men you quote from are correct. That seems to be the only personal thought you leave us with. Is there any other?
    peace
    Joe
     
  9. Lecter

    Lecter Fundamentalist

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    I still want to hear what you think based on scripture, what I meant was that I want you to put it in your own words.

    What do you mean by Jesus being the son of god?
     
  10. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    Jesus himself states that he is "the beginning of the creation by God."—Re 3:14.

    Jesus is God’s "firstborn" (Col 1:15) as God’s first creation, called "the Word" in his prehuman existence. (Joh 1:1) The word "beginning" in John 1:1 cannot refer to the "beginning" of God the Creator, for he is eternal, having no beginning. (Ps 90:2) It must therefore refer to the beginning of creation, when the Word was brought forth by God as his firstborn Son.
     
  11. Lecter

    Lecter Fundamentalist

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    You misunderstood me.

    I know that you believe Jesus is God's son. What I am asking you, what do you mean by the word 'son', isn't Jesus just a creation of God?
     
  12. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    Gods son Jesus is the first thing that Jehovah created,

    and he is the only thing that Jehovah created alone , everything else was created through Jesus ,
    but of cause the power to create came from Jehovah .

    he is the only -begotten son meaning that he is the only one created by Jehovah alone . ......the only one.......


    The angels of heaven are sons of God even as Adam was a "son of God." (Ge 6:2; Job 1:6; 38:7; Lu 3:38)

    But the Lo´gos, later called Jesus, is "the only-begotten Son of God." (Joh 3:18) He is the only one of his kind, the only one whom God himself created directly without the agency or cooperation of any creature.

    He is the only one whom God his Father used in bringing into existence all other creatures. He is the firstborn and chief one among all other angels (Col 1:15, 16; Heb 1:5, 6), which angels the Scriptures call "godlike ones" or "gods." (Ps 8:4, 5) Therefore, according to some of the oldest and best manuscripts, the Lord Jesus Christ is properly described as "the only-begotten god [Gr., mo·no·ge·nes´ the·os´]
     
  13. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    quoting scripture is quoting the bible ,and that is Gods inspired word not mans thoughts .
     
  14. Lecter

    Lecter Fundamentalist

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    But why are you still using the word son? God didn't give birth to Jesus he created him.

    Also the word begotten was used to describe David, so it's not an exclusive title of Jesus.

    "I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me (King David, King), Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee" Psalms 2:7

    And Solomon for example was also created before anything else according to the Bible:

    Proverbs 8:22-31

    22"The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
    before his deeds of old...

    So as you can see nothing you say is exclusively said about Jesus. He is god's creation just like everyone else.;)
     
  15. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    How
    do we know that the description of wisdom at Proverbs 8:22-31 applies to Jesus Christ in his prehuman existence?





    The inspired description of wisdom found in the book of Proverbs reads: "Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. . . . Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains . . . When he prepared the heavens I was there; . . . then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, . . . and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men."



    This passage cannot be speaking merely about divine wisdom or wisdom in the abstract. Why not? Because the wisdom that is here described was "produced," or created, as the beginning of Jehovah’s way.

    Jehovah God has always existed and has always been wise. (Psalm 90:1, 2) His wisdom had no beginning; it was neither created nor produced. It was not "brought forth as with labor pains." Furthermore, this wisdom is said to speak and act, representing a person.—Proverbs 8:1.


    The book of Proverbs says that long ago wisdom was beside Jehovah, the Creator, as "a master worker."

    That certainly applies to Jesus. Long before he came to earth, Jesus worked so closely with Jehovah that God’s Word says: "He is before all other things and by means of him all other things were made to exist."—Colossians 1:17; Revelation 3:14.
    Depicting the Son of God as wisdom is appropriate, since he was the One who revealed Jehovah’s wise purposes and decrees.

    During his prehuman existence, Jesus was God’s Word, or Spokesman. (John 1:1) He is described as being "the power of God and the wisdom of God." (1 Corinthians 1:24, 30) What a beautiful description of the Son of God, whose fondness for mankind moved him to give his life as a ransom in their behalf!—John 3:16.


     
  16. Lecter

    Lecter Fundamentalist

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    mee, you keep avoiding to answer my question. I am saying Jesus is one of God's creations amongst everything else. He is a servant of God. But you keep using the word "Son" I am asking you what do you mean by the word son, didn't you just say that god created him?

    God created Jesus, he did not give birth to him. So your use of the word son is most inaccurate.

    Also you say everything was created through Jesus and yet there is not a single proof or evidence for this.

    Not to mention Jesus himself declares:

    John 5:30 “I can of mine own self do nothing.”

    So again, why do you insist on using the word son? Do you even understand what that implies?
     
  17. Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

    Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine Junior Moderator, Intro Moderator

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    mee, Lecter, please "chill" for a bit (especially you, mee.)

    Anyway, Lecter, the :kitty: delegation has just brought out three more Sweeney Todd pies for you (no they didn't nibble any since they are quite happy with their usual food/treats.)

    Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine
     
  18. Lecter

    Lecter Fundamentalist

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    Oh I should have added a smiley, it's all good! Was just having a little fun with mee :D

    ohhhh food, me hungry mucho!
     
  19. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    i am very chilled and content, and it feels really good :)
     
  20. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    Jesus could not possibly be God himself, for Jesus was created by God.

    Note how Benjamin Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott renders Apocalypse (Revelation) chapter 3, verse 14:

    "These things says the Amen, the faithful and true witness [Jesus], the beginning of the creation of God."

    Similarly, Colossians 1:15, 16 says of Jesus: "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and upon the earth . . . All other things have been created through him and for him." So in heaven almighty God directly created his Son and then "by means of him," or "through him," created other things, much as a skilled workman might have a trained employee do work for him.

    Those things created "by means of him" did not include Jesus himself, for God had already created him.

    Thus, he is called the "firstborn," the "only-begotten." When a child is the firstborn, the only-begotten, it never means that the child is the same as the father.

    It always means that there are two different personalities involved, father and child.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2008

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