Big Bang and Expanding of Universe

Discussion in 'Science and the Universe' started by islamis4u, Jan 27, 2008.

  1. Bruno's logic

    Bruno's logic Agnostic/Panthiest

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    I hold to the thought that existence is infinite… That existence is the one thing existing wherein all things come from and will always exist as part of the motion, changing dimensions and waves of the one thing existing…

    Having said that, entities that become self aware and begin to understand the physics of existence will (when they survive long enough) eventually become masters of the universe/dimension that they exist in.

    So, along this line of thought, it is entirely possible that there exists a master of the physics of this universe who is interested or concerned with the goings on of our little planet Earth.

    While it is true that Humans have amazing imaginations, it is also true, that everything existing makes perfect sense to a master, whether or not this information can be explained to even the most ignorant entities is up for debate .

    So, it is possible that there exist Godlike entities, some, because of their experiences, are filled with compassion, understanding and love,
    and some are not….
    I just hope that the master of this universe ….. is a loving God…
    I pray that it is so….

    I hold to the thought that there is more to this existence than even the oldest entity will ever know…

    In an ever changing existence where Gods may come into being and cease to be, where big bangs are often heard and where imaginations run wild there is only one thing that never changes and that is; the one infinite space existing that all things exist in and is a part of.
    ~Bruno
     
  2. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    There is actually a big difference between something and nothing. People make their belief choices for their own reasons, ( though they may even be made for them, especially if they are brainwiped early enough). But coming to the conclusion, after many years, that there is not any truth in the teachings of the churches is very different to swallowing their dogma. You do not believe in nothing lightly, or at least I do not. I may play along with the branding at times, but I most definitely do not think no belief to be a religion in itself. The comfort it gives to religionists that I am susceptible to their infection too is theirs not mine. And from what I already know I can say with great confidence they are welcome to my death bed to hear me continue to insist there is no God.

    tao
     
  3. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Well, your solid belief is refreshing. At least there is no doubt where you stand.

    And as an aside. I too believe in evolution. The data is massive, and can not be denied. But there is also no doubt in my mind that someone designed the whole thing. But instead of calling it Intelligent design, I rather look at it as "BioLogos".

    Religion may be quite flawed, however faith in one greater than self is not.
     
  4. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    Its the language Q. "faith in one greater than self". You wear a uniform, you are used to the hierarchical system that church and service installs on the psyche. There is nothing I have seen that points to anyone having the ability to make an informed opinion that there is either a "one" or a many. But the way mankind organizes itself there is always a boss. And when we run out of bosses we create a bigger one, to carry the can or take the credit. Whatever this universe really is I find it mind bogglingly unlikely that it was created for man. So all these anthropocentric notions of God just make no sense if we are searching for truth. They are all tainted with self, we have made God in our own image not the other way round. The reason I say with such confidence that there is no God is because I see no sign of one, not one single shred of evidence to support such a theory. I see mankind's own ego continue to invent ideologies firmly based on self but not one that makes the least bit effort to declare this fact. There may be god(s) or creators but they too must have had their gods or creators, where does it end. You cannot get something from nothing. My belief is these are questions we can never hope to answer. And even if we could they would only create more questions. The gods we have created are not real. They are the imaginary friends of a species in its infancy. We are approaching, I hope, our adolescence and I sincerely hope we can leave these notions behind. Not because I want to deprive people of the very real comfort faith can bring to some, but because the price we pay in death and suffering is too great a price to pay. Religions divide more than they unite and I want to see the unity of man take shape. For I believe the alternative could mean its destruction. Until we remove the psychological acceptance of lies from the religions we cannot remove them from our politics and it is imperative that we do. We have a Global Village and we are out of balance with nature. Without honesty and greater reliance on observable data, or truth, its current unsustainability will become critical. Religions are despite the efforts of a few are in opposition to the unity we now urgently require. And religions are too susceptible to hijacking by the kinds of people we least need having any power. It is irrelevant if there is or is not a creator. We are the custodians of our own destiny and its high time we faced up to that responsibility and stopped delegating it to some self created mythos.



    tao
     
  5. Bruno's logic

    Bruno's logic Agnostic/Panthiest

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    Well said Tao....




    Though I am not an atheist, for I cannot rule out that there is a god or a creator or whatever, I too cannot see proof positive that a God or many gods does indeed exist. Humanity is naturally compassionate and kind, loving and generous we don't need religion to produce these traits...

    If we are lucky and survive another hundred years I have a feeling that the phrase; "repent the time is at hand" will be replaced with "rejoice we made it." For it is only logical that religion (imagination) will be replaced with wisdom (common sence).
    ~Bruno



     
  6. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    Thank you :)

    And I hope we do make it!!


    tao
     
  7. greymare

    greymare New Member

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    well Tao, old buddy (LOL) I am happy to have "religion" in my life, if for nothing else, we wouldnt have this forum and I wouldnt have met all these interesting and wonderful people. So for what its worth,thats my two bobs worth.
     
  8. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    And it is worth a lot more than 2 bob ;) :)
     
  9. quakeyjase

    quakeyjase New Member

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    I don't believe in string theory (and so far it does have to be a belief system lol), but I think the account of the big bang is fairly consistent with the creation of a finite universe.

    What worries me about claims that it is all predicted in the Qur'an is that this is completely with hindsight. In other words, what does the Qur'an say about science that hasn't been already worked out? Like quantum gravity for example? God knows science is desparate enough for ideas on this!

    The unrolling of the heavens does bear a slight similarity to some of the stuff about membranes, but I don't really count that as science as it makes no falsifiable predictions as yet.

    peace and blessings,

    qj
     
  10. islamis4u

    islamis4u Vision To Spread Islam

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    look then their from seeing from your point of view we can't prove any theory because we can't go back to time see if its right or wrong then we have to go with what is accepted ....
     
  11. islamis4u

    islamis4u Vision To Spread Islam

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    Tao it feels very bad to say that you do not reply and just start attacking religion.... why did not you reply to the topic i may not have a point then you tell me why im wrong other then attacking someone's belief i differ with my Christian brother in some parts of belief but that does not mean i say Christians are bad and this and that.....
     
  12. islamis4u

    islamis4u Vision To Spread Islam

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  13. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    Because I heard it all 100 times or more before. And frankly I just get tired of listening to such mindless dribble. I said it as it is. That simple.


    tao
     
  14. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    Back on topic...

    I have often said Big Bang theory is flawed. Here is a story that shows forces at work that must be older than and are inexplicable within the context of Big Bang theory.

    Mysterious New 'Dark Flow' Discovered in Space | LiveScience

    They discovered that the clusters were moving nearly 2 million mph (3.2 million kph)toward a region in the sky between the constellations of Centaurus and Vela. This motion is different from the outward expansion of the universe (which is accelerated by the force called dark energy).
    "We found a very significant velocity, and furthermore, this velocity does not decrease with distance, as far as we can measure," Kashlinsky told SPACE.com. "The matter in the observable universe just cannot produce the flow we measure."





    tao
     
  15. Avi

    Avi Interfaith Forums

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    Islamis4us, I was reviewing some of the older posts and I came across this one. I am a bit confused, you said you are studying Computer Engineering. So why are you quoting the Quran with respect to scientific issues ?

    There are many great Pakistani scientists:

    Pakistan Academy of Sciences - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Why not approach science rationally and look for natural complementary ideas related to religion and philosophy ? It seems like you have the skills and background to do this.
     
  16. islamis4u

    islamis4u Vision To Spread Islam

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    Im no where comparing Quran im just pointing out the basic scientific facts which have been found some years back and trying to tell whats present in Quran which came 1400 years back basic scientific facts...it in anyway doesn't say that Quran is Book of science rather their is some facts which is their in Quran and off course some what proving the Fact that the creator knows its creation and then i if the facts are true then the book is from creator..it seems some what rational approach
     
  17. citizenzen

    citizenzen Custom User Title

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    And if someone were to find a something mentioned in the Quran that was not accurate to what we know today, would that disprove that the book is from the creator?

    Chapter 86
    In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
    (1) I swear by the heaven and the comer by night;
    (2) And what will make you know what the comer by night is?
    (3) The star of piercing brightness;
    (4) There is not a soul but over it is a keeper.
    (5) So let man consider of what he is created:
    (6) He is created of water pouring forth,
    (7) Coming from between the back and the ribs.

    So the Quran is better at astronomy than anatomy?

    Chapter 67
    (5) And certainly We have adorned this lower heaven with lamps [stars] and We have made these missiles for the Shaitans [devils], and We have prepared for them the chastisement of burning.

    Oops. Sometimes they get the astronomy wrong too.

    I don't think you want to go down this path of logic Ii4U.
     
  18. islamis4u

    islamis4u Vision To Spread Islam

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    First 4 verses of Surah Tariq is reffered to Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H)
    5, 6, 7 are of how human is born how you came into this earth i don't want to go in details you know how...
    The Holy Quran

    chapter 67 surah Mulk in verse 5 it says about the stars which are like beautiful siting from here and in process you are testyfing a fact that you know stars are much much hotter then sun? and havn't you seen some breaks(i don't know the correct English for that word) but in Urdu we say "totta sitara"

    The Holy Quran
     
  19. Avi

    Avi Interfaith Forums

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    Ii4u, I can respect the fact that you are a literal believer of the Quran. I know many Orthodox Jews, Conservative Christians and Muslims that are literal believers.

    But as a scientist and engineer, myself, I have some trouble reconciling the miracles described in these holy books with my knowledge of science. Can you see why I might have this skepticism ?

    Also, I am not a believer in the divine giving of the Bible. Can you describe, physically, how this type of action could occur ? It is beyond our scientific experiences.
     
  20. citizenzen

    citizenzen Custom User Title

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    I have little doubt that you can explain why this doesn't mean this and that doesn't mean that. I found those two references after a very short search. And if you want, I could do more searching and come up with more things you'll have to explain away.

    My point is if you want to point to a couple of instances where the Quran can be interpreted to describe current scientific theory and claim that proves its divine origin, you have to then reconcile the instances that don't match up to today's scientific understanding and accept that those instances disprove its divine origin.

    After all, in a particle accelerator, they don't take one result and call that fact, and the next result and call it allegory and the next result and call it a miracle! Each result must be looked at the same way or else it isn't science.
     

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