Proverbs 1:7 - Fear of the LORD

[truthseeker]

The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction. - Proverbs 1:7

Hello All,

There was a time when I was afraid to think anything that might be bad because I believed God knew my thoughts and he would not favor me for bad thinking and wrong doing.

Well, as I got older, I got tired of being afraid. I was afraid to do most things because I didn't want to run the possibility of losing God's favor. I wanted to live my life and I knew that I would make mistakes along the way because that was the only way I could learn anything. I went to the LORD in prayer and said that if I am going to be struck down for my wrong doing then now was the time because I was ready to go out into the world. And so I did. And life is good and full of learning by mistakes. But I like who I am today so I know for certain that God has found favor in me.

I don't fear God nor man. I truly highly respect God because of His power in my life and the power He has invested in me. But I am not afraid because I know the laws have been set to help me along the way. There are reactions to all actions, for every sin there is a consequence. But I do not live my life in fear. Am I a fool, or does this scripture mean something else?

 

[pattimax]

Hi seeker!
It means awe-filled respect.

 

[path_of_one]

Ditto Patti. The problem in interpretation came from the difficulty of translating Greek to English.

 

[Dream]

Hello Truthseeker! I'll agree somewhat with Pattimax about reverence, and I've looked up some connected scriptures to contribute. Proverbs 8 (and other scriptures) talks about the wisdom that was from the beginning. These verses help discover the express reason God made mankind -- this in turn connects to your question about what fearing God means. Here is Solomon's riddle:

The LORD created me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old. Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth.

Psalm 11:9-10 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name. The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

Beginning of Wisdom
Your verse in Proverbs was quoted by Psalm 111, where the word reverence is added. There is still seems possibly an element of mortal fear, but mortal fear is not the real focus. It emphasizes the 'Beginning' of wisdom, which connects it to the other Wisdom writings about life, the universe, and everything!

He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.
12-14 I know that there is no good in them, but for a man to rejoice, and to do good in his life. And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labour, it is the gift of God. I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
15-18 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past. And moreover I saw under the sun the place of judgment, that wickedness was there; and the place of righteousness, that iniquity was there. I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work. I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

Humility before God
We are to recognize our smallness compared to God, our animal nature versus his sublime nature. From that grows an understanding of reverence of God, sometimes translated as 'Fear'. Other places it is translated as 'Humility'. (Personally, there are reasons why I think it incorporates an element of mortal fear as well.) Based on this understanding of 'Fear of God', humility in the Bible is generally associated with wisdom, but pride is considered to be foolishness. Abraham, the father of all we who share in the household of faith, calls himself dust and ashes.

He gives power to the faint, and to him who has no might he increases strength.

II Samuel 22:28 Thou dost deliver a humble people, but thy eyes are upon the haughty to bring them down.

And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:

 

[mee]

The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction. - Proverbs 1:7

Hello All,

There was a time when I was afraid to think anything that might be bad because I believed God knew my thoughts and he would not favor me for bad thinking and wrong doing.

Well, as I got older, I got tired of being afraid. I was afraid to do most things because I didn't want to run the possibility of losing God's favor. I wanted to live my life and I knew that I would make mistakes along the way because that was the only way I could learn anything. I went to the LORD in prayer and said that if I am going to be struck down for my wrong doing then now was the time because I was ready to go out into the world. And so I did. And life is good and full of learning by mistakes. But I like who I am today so I know for certain that God has found favor in me.

I don't fear God nor man. I truly highly respect God because of His power in my life and the power He has invested in me. But I am not afraid because I know the laws have been set to help me along the way. There are reactions to all actions, for every sin there is a consequence. But I do not live my life in fear. Am I a fool, or does this scripture mean something else?

this FEAR spoken of in proverbs is not a morbid fear of God it is the same as not wanting to displease loving parents . it is love of God and not wanting to displease our loving God . our loving God knows that we are an imperfect lot and we some times cant help out thoughts .

 

[mee]

The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction. - Proverbs 1:7

quote]
1:7; 9:10—In what way is the fear of Jehovah "the beginning of knowledge" and "the start of wisdom"?


Without the fear of Jehovah, there can be no knowledge, for he is the Creator of all things and the Author of the Scriptures. (Romans 1:20; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17) He is the very Source of all true knowledge.

Hence, knowledge begins with the reverential fear of Jehovah. Godly fear is also the start of wisdom because there can be no wisdom without knowledge. Moreover, a person who lacks the fear of Jehovah will not use whatever knowledge he has to honor the Creator.

 

[seattlegal]

From the book of James:

James 3:13-18
13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. 18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.​

 

[seattlegal]

The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction. - Proverbs 1:7

Hello All,

There was a time when I was afraid to think anything that might be bad because I believed God knew my thoughts and he would not favor me for bad thinking and wrong doing.

Well, as I got older, I got tired of being afraid. I was afraid to do most things because I didn't want to run the possibility of losing God's favor. I wanted to live my life and I knew that I would make mistakes along the way because that was the only way I could learn anything. I went to the LORD in prayer and said that if I am going to be struck down for my wrong doing then now was the time because I was ready to go out into the world. And so I did. And life is good and full of learning by mistakes. But I like who I am today so I know for certain that God has found favor in me.

I don't fear God nor man. I truly highly respect God because of His power in my life and the power He has invested in me. But I am not afraid because I know the laws have been set to help me along the way. There are reactions to all actions, for every sin there is a consequence. But I do not live my life in fear. Am I a fool, or does this scripture mean something else?

Do you own up to your own mistakes? That is part of 'fearing' God. Do you do evil acts in an attempt to cover up your own mistakes? That is not part of 'fearing' God, imo, although some might say the evil acts were committed out of 'fear' of being found out, and the loss of pride that goes with it. Notice the difference? (Humility vs pride)

Job 28:27-28
27 He considered wisdom and evaluated it;
He established it and examined it.

28 He said to mankind,
"Look! The fear of the Lord—that is wisdom,
and to turn from evil is understanding."​

 

[Thomas]

Hi Truthseeker —

I don't fear God nor man. I truly highly respect God because of His power in my life and the power He has invested in me. But I am not afraid because I know the laws have been set to help me along the way. There are reactions to all actions, for every sin there is a consequence. But I do not live my life in fear. Am I a fool, or does this scripture mean something else?

I think I heard somewhere that 'fear not' is the most oft-repeated phrase in Scripture. No, you are not a fool.

I think my co-respondents have adequately located the text in its proper context, without which a proper exegesis of Scripture becomes something of a matter of opinion.

In traditional Christian terms, the call of God is not founded on the fear of sin, of punishment or perdition ... but rather it is a call to the divine life, and as such the emphasis is not on the negative, but the positive, the development of virtue.

The three theological virtues are faith, hope and charity, and the four cardinal virtues are (the Platonic) prudence, temperance, justice and fortitude, of which prudence is considered the cardinal virtue of the four.

Prudence (Latin, from the verb 'seeing ahead'), according to Aristotle, is "right reason applied to practice". For the scholastics it was "an intellectual habit (habitus)enabling us to see in any given juncture of human affairs what is virtuous and what is not, and how to come at the one and avoid the other."

If one considers the saying "fools rush in where angels fear to tread", I think this nicely reflects the Scriptural paranesis (exhortation) to prudence.

Thomas

 

[Netti-Netti]

Do you own up to your own mistakes?

I think "owning up" could mean learning from your mistakes in order to avoid repeating them.

"Go and sin no more."

"Ye are therefore commanded to be perfect, even as you Father who is in heaven is perfect..."

My sense is that fear of G-d is like wanting to avoid existential guilt and shame about forgetting the commandment or, in retrospect, having failed to make the requisite effort to implement action compatible with or conducive to the intended goal (perfection).

Basically the "fear" has the function of alerting you to the need to renounce sin. I suppose you might say it's the Call of Conscience.

 

[mee]

From the book of James:

James 3:13-18​

13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. 18 Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.​

very true , the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace,by those who make peace. putting wisdom from above into pratice makes for peace

 

[Netti-Netti]

very true , the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace, by those who make peace. putting wisdom from above into practice makes for peace

When the going gets easy, you're probably on the wrong path.

The desire for G-d may not be a peaceful thing at all. At least it hasn't been for me. To me it's been more like an overwhelming mixture of extreme pain and bliss suffused with a certain level of fear. A lot of seemingly contradictory emotions.

 

[mee]

When the going gets easy, you're probably on the wrong path.

The desire for G-d may not be a peaceful thing at all. At least it hasn't been for me. To me it's been more like an overwhelming mixture of extreme pain and bliss suffused with a certain level of fear. A lot of seemingly contradictory emotions.

Yes the world in general is in great opposition to the right way inline with the bible.

 

[mee]

Just as a farmer sows seed in peace, so the good news is sown in peace, not with wrangling, strife, tumult, and the use of force. And the men doing the sowing are men of peace, not quarrelsome, belligerent, or riotous. JAMES 3;18

 

[Netti-Netti]

To me to be "G-d fearing" is to be mindful to the possibility of losing sight of his Divine Guidance and/or no longer deserving G-d's love. This is an ongoing, daily struggle. We seek G-d's love and want to do His will. But the fact is: we remain "in the flesh." There is no getting away from temptation. Fear of the Lord gives us perspective on past mistakes and also alerts us to the possibilty of temptation inherent in a situation. The protective value of Fear of the Lord is obvious, but it involves internal dissonance because this fear constantly reminds us of the unavoidable fact that "the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want." (Galatians 5:17; New International Version)

This situation makes for a tremendous amount of inner turmoil. I think it can drive some people crazy. My sense is that it has.

Note that the King James version of Galatians 5:17 is a slightly different translation that equates sinful nature with The Flesh. It reads as follows: "For the flesh lusted against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would." This language gives the impression that sexual hang-ups are the source of conflicting emotions. This limited view of our baser nature may have led to rather bizarre attempts to mortify the flesh, including but not limited to self-castration.

The undue focus on the body strikes me as a shortsighted notion of the problem. For one thing, there is no atoning for my sins by means of any action I can take, so punishing myself is pointless in that regard. Secondly I could have my animalistic urges fully sublimated and still experience existential guilt or "Fear of the Lord" because my "sinful nature" relates to all forms of selfishness.

 

[wil]

To me to be "G-d fearing" is to be mindful to the possibility of losing sight of his Divine Guidance and/or no longer deserving G-d's love.

Namaste Netti,

In my understanding, can't happen. Unconditional love is just that, unconditional. We could feel undeserving, but we'll never not recieve G!d's love. 7x70 and all that no matter what we do or who we are the light will always shine and be there when we are ready...

No fear here, just comfort in knowing.

peace

 

[Netti-Netti]

In my understanding, can't happen. Unconditional love is just that, unconditional. We could feel undeserving, but we'll never not recieve G!d's love.

Almost all of the Heaven's Gate group who suicided in their San Diego house in 1995 were men who had been castrated. These castrations were presumably done as an expression of religiosity: "part of our test of faith is our hating this world, even our flesh body."

Historically, castration was a way that religious people (Christians) deal with lust. Btw, that included female castrations as well.
Skoptsy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My point here is that a real appreciation for G-d's love for His creation would enable people to accept their nature without resorting to castration in the hope of earning G-d's love. It's quite bizarre that very religious people like members of the Heaven's Gate group don't get that.

 

[seattlegal]

To me to be "G-d fearing" is to be mindful to the possibility of losing sight of his Divine Guidance and/or no longer deserving G-d's love. This is an ongoing, daily struggle. We seek G-d's love and want to do His will. But the fact is: we remain "in the flesh." There is no getting away from temptation. Fear of the Lord gives us perspective on past mistakes and also alerts us to the possibilty of temptation inherent in a situation. The protective value of Fear of the Lord is obvious, but it involves internal dissonance because this fear constantly reminds us of the unavoidable fact that "the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want." (Galatians 5:17; New International Version)

This situation makes for a tremendous amount of inner turmoil. I think it can drive some people crazy. My sense is that it has.

Note that the King James version of Galatians 5:17 is a slightly different translation that equates sinful nature with The Flesh. It reads as follows: "For the flesh lusted against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would." This language gives the impression that sexual hang-ups are the source of conflicting emotions. This limited view of our baser nature may have led to rather bizarre attempts to mortify the flesh, including but not limited to self-castration.

The undue focus on the body strikes me as a shortsighted notion of the problem. For one thing, there is no atoning for my sins by means of any action I can take, so punishing myself is pointless in that regard. Secondly I could have my animalistic urges fully sublimated and still experience existential guilt or "Fear of the Lord" because my "sinful nature" relates to all forms of selfishness.

Namaste Netti,

In my understanding, can't happen. Unconditional love is just that, unconditional. We could feel undeserving, but we'll never not recieve G!d's love. 7x70 and all that no matter what we do or who we are the light will always shine and be there when we are ready...

No fear here, just comfort in knowing.

peace

Almost all of the Heaven's Gate group who suicided in their San Diego house in 1995 were men who had been castrated. These castrations were presumably done as an expression of religiosity: "part of our test of faith is our hating this world, even our flesh body."

Historically, castration was a way that religious people (Christians) deal with lust. Btw, that included female castrations as well.
Skoptsy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My point here is that a real appreciation for G-d's love for His creation would enable people to accept their nature without resorting to castration in the hope of earning G-d's love. It's quite bizarre that very religious people like members of the Heaven's Gate group don't get that.

2 Corinthians 4 addresses this well:

2 Corinthians 4
The Light of Christ’s Gospel

1 Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose heart. 2 But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Cast Down but Unconquered

7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us. 8 We are hard-pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; 9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed— 10 always carrying about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. 11 For we who live are always delivered to death for Jesus’ sake, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 12 So then death is working in us, but life in you.
13 And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, “I believed and therefore I spoke,” we also believe and therefore speak, 14 knowing that He who raised up the Lord Jesus will also raise us up with Jesus, and will present us with you. 15 For all things are for your sakes, that grace, having spread through the many, may cause thanksgiving to abound to the glory of God.

Seeing the Invisible

16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day. 17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, 18 while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.​

 

[mee]

To me to be "G-d fearing" is to be mindful to the possibility of losing sight of his Divine Guidance and/or no longer deserving G-d's love. This is an ongoing, daily struggle. We seek G-d's love and want to do His will. But the fact is: we remain "in the flesh." There is no getting away from temptation. Fear of the Lord gives us perspective on past mistakes and also alerts us to the possibilty of temptation inherent in a situation. The protective value of Fear of the Lord is obvious, but it involves internal dissonance because this fear constantly reminds us of the unavoidable fact that "the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want." (Galatians 5:17; New International Version)

This situation makes for a tremendous amount of inner turmoil. I think it can drive some people crazy. My sense is that it has.

Note that the King James version of Galatians 5:17 is a slightly different translation that equates sinful nature with The Flesh. It reads as follows: "For the flesh lusted against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would." This language gives the impression that sexual hang-ups are the source of conflicting emotions. This limited view of our baser nature may have led to rather bizarre attempts to mortify the flesh, including but not limited to self-castration.

The undue focus on the body strikes me as a shortsighted notion of the problem. For one thing, there is no atoning for my sins by means of any action I can take, so punishing myself is pointless in that regard. Secondly I could have my animalistic urges fully sublimated and still experience existential guilt or "Fear of the Lord" because my "sinful nature" relates to all forms of selfishness.

Galatians 5;17
For the flesh is against the spirit in its desire, and the spirit against the flesh; for these are opposed to each other, so that the very things that you would like to do you do not do.






"Keep walking by spirit and you will carry out no fleshly desire at all. For the flesh is against the spirit in its desire, and the spirit against the flesh; for these are opposed to each other, so that the very things that you would like to do you do not do. Furthermore, if you are being led by spirit, you are not under law.

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects, envies, drunken bouts, revelries, and things like these. As to these things I am forewarning you, the same way as I did forewarn you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom.


"On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law."—Galatians 5:16-23; note also 1 Timothy 1:8-11.
Quite a list of opposites, is it not? Certainly those who are producing the fruitage of God’s spirit are not practicing the things called "the works of the flesh." They are looking forward to God’s kingdom with a sincere desire to inherit its blessings.
​

 

[greymare]

well then mee, ive said it before and ill say it again, Im well and truly stuffed, eh??