God in an infinite space

Discussion in 'Alternative' started by Bruno's logic, Apr 20, 2008.

  1. Bruno's logic

    Bruno's logic Agnostic/Panthiest

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    In an infinite space God cannot possibly know everything…. God may very well be a trillion universes old and still growing but that is still nothing compared to infinite space……
    God must know this of course. But what can he do? All alone in an infinite place where only he exists…. I surmise that God is seeking the same things we are…. A purpose to it all. Something other than himself in the vast darkness of infinite space… searching, reaching, expanding, growing….
    For us there is no escape from within God’s realm… as we are one small aspect of what God is projecting or creating or thinking about…. God seems to be looking in every direction, in every way he can think of, to find an answer to why he exists at all. He is even looking through the human soul and through our eyes…. Through black holes… Through it all…
    Two Gods meet in an infinite space, what are the odds of that?
    What will become of us if and when God encounters another God in infinite space?
    They may be completely opposites in every way and cancel each other out of existence….
    Or perhaps they may have come to the same conclusions?
    Will they hate or love each other?
    Will they merge or go their separate ways….
    What if God gives up the search altogether before he ever finds his answer?
    Is it possible that God will never find a friend?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ~Bruno
     
  2. Impqueen

    Impqueen Queen of the Imps

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    Unless God is infinite himself.
     
  3. Bruno's logic

    Bruno's logic Agnostic/Panthiest

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    Hello Impqueen,
    I think that infinite space is unaware of its own existence. It ‘s simply the one thing that exists that everything else exists within and is made of. Infinity is the one unchanging stable substance that all things exist in and of...
    To say that God is infinite is to say that God does not know his own self… Infinity itself has no idea what exists beyond itself except for more of the same… endless infinite space…
    Infinity by definition means endless without boundaries… an amount or number so great that it cannot be counted, larger than any value or measurement… time without end….

    ~Bruno
     
  4. Impqueen

    Impqueen Queen of the Imps

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    Quick disclaimer: I'm a polytheist so the whole question is somewhat moot for me, but hey here we go anyway.... :p

    Why would an infinite god not know himself?
     
  5. Bruno's logic

    Bruno's logic Agnostic/Panthiest

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    Hello Impqueen,
    I am somewhat of a polytheist myself, although I tend more towards agnostic, as I have no idea what is really going on or what this reality exists in or is made of, but I like to believe that all existence is connected somehow and aware of itself in more ways than humans can even imagine, but I may be wrong about that….

    Having sad that; I’m currently contemplating what infinity is and wondering if it is even possible for three dimensional beings (humans) to understand what infinity actually is…

    I think that space is the only infinite thing existing.
    I don’t think that infinite space itself is a God, or the God. I don’t think that infinite space itself is aware of what its purpose is or that it even exists at all.

    I think that infinite space is simply the substance that all things come from and are made of. Electrons are made of space, stars are made of space, people are made of space, thoughts are made of space, and yes, Gods are made of space too.

    I believe that there are trillions of Gods existing in space and that they are the center of their own universe, that they are the most powerful being to all that they create…Also I believe these gods seldom interact with each other because space is so vast, so, infinite… Gods maybe traveling at the speed of light but there’s an infinite amount of space between them so they never really encounter each other…

    I surmise that at least some of the Gods seek out the far reaches of existence but by the time they reach their destination all they can see is infinite space. That’s why I don’t believe that even the oldest and most wise god is an infinite entity… they exist within infinity but they do not know everything about infinity…

    So to answer your question; "Why would an infinite God not know himself", well, I believe that there's no such thing as an infinite God because I believe there's only one infinite thing and it’s not a God at all, it’s the space/substance that Gods exist in and are made of…

    now a question for you

    Can you tell me why are you a polytheist?
    ~Bruno
     
  6. bgruagach

    bgruagach eclectic Wiccan

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    Another way to think of it (that is more scientific) is that space is nothingness, and it is infinite. Things that exist, though, are matter and matter is finite. Our universe is a clump of finite matter floating in an infinite void.

    Is the Divine the void or the sum total of the matter? Is the Divine both? Is the Divine neither?

    Our assumptions about those questions will determine whether the Divine is finite or infinite.
     
  7. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    We discover that ants, bees, porpoises, etc. operate in intricate societies utilizing a number of different communication techniques where we thought was nothing but instinct previously.

    We find that yogurt culture can communicate with each other beyond the confines of its containers.

    We see atoms that appear to react to other atoms distant from themselves.

    Why do we think the infinite isn't contemplating itself?

    I look at my physical body and there are often things that I don't know... Why is that pain over there? What was that sensation? What caused that indigestion? Why am I loosing my hair? etc.

    Now I know that others are more aware of the reasons behind these and other things than I and I can contemplate that the possiblity of an entity that encompasses all knowledge.
     
  8. Impqueen

    Impqueen Queen of the Imps

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    I suppose I should have quoted the specific thing I was questioning:
    I don't follow this specifically. I understand that you don't think God is infinite (neither do I, or more accurately, i don't think gods are infinite) however, how does the idea of a god being infinite suggest it wouldn't know itself? :confused:

    The thing is, space is infinite in the sense that it is all there is, there is nothing outside it, and by nothing I don't mean empty space. However the matter within the universe is finite. So in some ways the universe is infinite and in some ways it is not....

    If they are gods are they still bound by the laws of physics? Couldn't the thoughts of Gods cross these vast distances in some kind of celestial telepathy? If wormholes do indeed exist and do, in fact, link distant portions of space, maybe they wouldn't even need to break any laws of physics. Except those broken by their very existence :p

    As for why I'm a polytheist... well put simply monotheism makes no kind of sense to me. I think it is not possible for a single, benevolent, omnipotent deity to exist given the world today. Many bickering gods at cross purposes with uncertain tempers and incomprehensible agendas.... now that's more like it! ;) I also don't believe the gods are the creators of the universe but that's another discussion entirely ...
     
  9. Bruno's logic

    Bruno's logic Agnostic/Panthiest

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    Hello Impqueen,
    OK, I think we both agree that Gods are not infinite…

    What I meant by saying that if a God were infinite it would not know his own self, was simply that the nature of infinity is by definition unknowable ends, space without boundaries, and that means that every time a God presumes itself to be infinite it is admitting that it has no idea what lies beyond its own understanding, that when it reaches the end of its own universe it finds that there’s still more out there other than itself…

    The infinite God may exist in theory but not in practice because the infinite God can never know everything about itself because infinity has no limits… Hmmm

    I’m talking in circles….

    Perhaps I misspoke; I should have said that, an infinite God can only know what it knows according to the physics and laws of existence that it has encountered while it has existed but that all of its knowledge is like a rain drop in an eternal ocean. The infinite God would have to admit that although it may be everything that exists in theory and practice it also is ignorant of what lies beyond …..

    Sorry I’m just a carpenter/commercial fisherman trying to explain something that's way over my head…. It shouldn't be, I like to believe that an understanding of how existance actually works should be common knowledge, but it seems that everybody has a different take on it...
    Hmmm
    ~Bruno
     
  10. Bruno's logic

    Bruno's logic Agnostic/Panthiest

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    Hello bgruagach,

    I personally believe that space is the same stuff as matter or rather that matter is space that is visible… which is to say that space is anything but nothingness, in fact I believe infinite space is the invisible eternal potential of all that can be…

    Matter is finite space…

    Matter can not exist without space…

    Space exists between all matter, between stars, planets, molecules, electrons etc. If there were no space then all matter would be one big lump of matter… boring...

    It is a fact that there is an infinite amount of space between even the smallest piece of matter, and may I add, between every thought....
    ~Bruno
     
  11. Bruno's logic

    Bruno's logic Agnostic/Panthiest

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    Hello Will,
    I concede that Humans, myself included, may very well lack an understanding of existence, like a two dimensional entity trying to comprehend the three dimensional realm that we know does indeed exist but is beyond two dimensional understanding…

    So we too may not be in the loop of understanding that Gods exist in that may very well explain why,yogurt culture can communicate with each other beyond the confines of its containers or why atoms appear to react to other atoms distant from themselves.

    You asked; Why do we think the infinite isn't contemplating itself?
    Well, it is in a way, because you and I are contemplating existence but I don’t think that humans are capable of knowing what the infinite is actually thinking or is capable of.
    ~Bruno
     
  12. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Me contemplating existence in comparison to the infinite and the universe is analogous to an eyelash wondering its role and impact on the enterity of me.
     
  13. Impqueen

    Impqueen Queen of the Imps

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    Aren't most (if not all) conceptions of an infinite God of an infinite creator god? I.e he made the laws of physics and therefore there can't be any he doesn't know. Perhaps infinity simply means beyond human knowledge, experience and imagination.
     
  14. Bruno's logic

    Bruno's logic Agnostic/Panthiest

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    Hello again,
    Perhaps this is a never-ending conversation that finite conscious entities have with the infinite oneness over and over again…..

    It may not be a fact that everything, existing, exists in and is only a fleeting moment within one infinite substance, but because of the natural progression of innocence and ignorance, arrogance and prideful stupidity when finite entities become aware of their insignificance and unique perception as a finite entity within an infinite source of creation that the perception of a God figure emerges to fend off the fear of reality.

    There may very well be a God within or several Gods. But they all must exist within something.... It makes no sense to claim that something can come from nothing. There must be something that is infinite that Gods pull from to create anything even themselves…

    What is this medium/substance and how can we access it to become creators ourselves…???
    We know it exists…. the infinite source of energy....


    ~Bruno
     
  15. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    I'll be his friend... :)
     
  16. greymare

    greymare New Member

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    oh, I think he has plenty of friends.........its just the neighbourhood that brings his value down.............
     
  17. _Z_

    _Z_ from far far away

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    wil

    this sounds interesting please tell more!
    _________________

    may i point out that infinity cannot contemplate or make any 'finite' conceptions we use to define things. however infinity nor finite exists, reality is something that floats in between, so there is no reason why we cannot have an undefined god [and gods even] which can act just as the rest of reality ~ in an undisclosed fashion.
     
  18. Bruno's logic

    Bruno's logic Agnostic/Panthiest

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    Hello, Z
    You wrote….


    Would you agree to this sentence of my ‘OP’ if I re-worded it to fit your post……
    "“We are one small aspect of what the undefined God is projecting, or creating, or thinking about in an undisclosed fashion.” ~Bruno


    I do think that infinity can contemplate itself but you’re probably correct in that the way humans define things does not resemble the infinite understanding of existence…




    Perhaps I should say that God is only one aspect of the undisclosed infinite existence.
    ~Bruno
     
  19. _Z_

    _Z_ from far far away

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    bruno, hi

    my ‘truth is an entity’ thread will answer as to what i think on this. i would see 'god' [if that is an appropriate description] as fundamental the very entity of truth, but i don’t see things as ‘projections’ in that i think all things are connected to the truth. god is within us whilst being far greater than even infinity can define!

    or vice versa, infinity is nothing compared to truth as an entity. if i may say; god would be timeless and would not think in terms of linear time and space, he is ‘now’ forever’.

    or infinity is but one aspect of the undisclosed god!? i think we come unstuck when we view things in terms of an infinite comparative, existence is more like a ship sailing on a never ending ocean. when we compare and see billions of universes or a beginning and end of any description, then some bell rings in my mind and i think something is amiss.

    interesting points there. :)
     

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