Santa V God

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Tao_Equus, May 10, 2008.

  1. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    Backpeddling? I have had both Netti and SG hold atheism "responsible", as the "cause" of death for 100s of millions of people when this is patently untrue. It was not me who sought to paint Hitler as an atheist on an atheistic cause and I was simply setting the record straight.

    This is exactly what I said " The Nazi's were Catholic, they attended Catholic services, got married and baptised in the Catholic church by Catholic priests who saw nothing wrong with giving the Nazi salute." I do not try to say that they did what they did in the name of Catholicism but that Catholicism continued unhindered under the Nazi regime. In fact there is plenty of evidence to support the idea that they profited enormously from it.

    It is no double standard. It would be incorrect for me to state that Hitler waged death on a Catholic ideology and its is equally incorrect to state that Stalin did so with an Atheistic one. In both cases it was flag waving dogmatic nationalism with a heavy thread of self-superiority that 'rallied' the people. Sound familiar?

    tao
     
  2. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    I see Gaia as an organism, not a God.
     
  3. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    Really sounds like the man has thought it through does it not? He based his conversion on things he did not understand about DNA. Sorry but to me the whole thing stinks and my only thought is "what the hell did they have on him".


    You forgot to include murderous, trivial, despotic, unreasonable, sexist, racist and whole lot of other characteristics. But I dont put it to well. I post a link to an American who does:

    YouTube - George Carlin - Religion is bullshit.
     
  4. China Cat Sunflower

    China Cat Sunflower Nimrod

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    The God of the abrahamic tradition is a megalomaniacal nut. This is why I don't even like using the word God. I see patterns of conscious intelligence in the universe. I see it in the things and processes that make up life. I could call that God, but it has nothing to do with the anthropomorphic, judeo-Disney God of the abrahamic traditions who is essentially an egragore of his devotees worship.

    Chris
     
  5. Netti-Netti

    Netti-Netti New Member

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    Chris, you are blessed with intellectual honesty.

    I appreciate your concerns. Just as puzzling and embarassing is worship behavior without any real effort to sort out the issues, without any awareness even of the possibility of conflating humankind's imperfect renderings of what G-d is like with G-d's nature.
     
  6. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    As Carlin says there are all these billlllllions of people trying to "conflate" their reality on "God" and its his friggen day off!! It aint easy being a supreme being!

    tao
     
  7. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    And for the record as of now I am no longer going to pull any punches, no more self censorship, no dishonesty, no more pandering to others fragile ego's.... from now on I give it the only way i can ....from the heart. That is not always a warm place.


    tao
     
  8. Netti-Netti

    Netti-Netti New Member

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    George Carlin is right. The Icescapades are proof that G-d does not exist.
    : Whatever Dude :[​IMG]


    Oh dear. [​IMG][​IMG]
    : Chuckle :
     
  9. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    lol, guess who was on the whisky last night :p
     
  10. China Cat Sunflower

    China Cat Sunflower Nimrod

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    Gin makes me mean.

    Chris
     
  11. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

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    Would that be Gin or Jinn?
     
  12. China Cat Sunflower

    China Cat Sunflower Nimrod

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    :D:D
     
  13. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    lol, me too, and tequila gives me blackouts even after moderate drinking.
     
  14. China Cat Sunflower

    China Cat Sunflower Nimrod

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    Tequila makes me bullet proof. The fewer clothes the more so, evidently!

    Chris
     
  15. Netti-Netti

    Netti-Netti New Member

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    Not to worry. The spirit of love came through. :D
     
  16. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    Ohh good, that makes me happy :) At least you know what I say comes from a real person, and not the invisible man :cool:


    tao
     
  17. Paladin

    Paladin Purchased Bewilderment

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    Ralph Ellison was an atheist? Wow, who knew?:p
     
  18. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    Netti,

    throughout this thread you have asked me to define the evidence for my original question. I have obliged at every turn. Now would you do me the courtesy of explaining exactly why you believe that it is no delusion and cite your evidence to support it?

    tao
     
  19. Netti-Netti

    Netti-Netti New Member

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    Hello Tao,

    As we have seen, when the unbeliever raises the existence of G-d issue, it can turn out to be an issue of evidence: specifically, what standard of evidence makes sense? I think we agree that a traditional scientific criteria for truth is not workable because (at least according to Karl Popper) disconfirmation is part of what it is to do hypothesis testing.

    Having abandoned a scientific standard of evidence, we proceeded to "beyond reasonable doubt." I don't think that really went anywhere.

    Here's my take in it: Matters of faith are not solved on the basis of evidence -- and I can say that even though I have been fortunate to have had somewhat unusual experiences that actually leave very little room for doubt. I should say especially fortunate because skepticism has come naturally to me. At the very least, I should be an agnostic, if not a card-carrying atheist.

    At any rate, "Evidence" is mainly a concern for a nonbeliever, who probably won't be satisfied with any evidence anyway. For me the evidence is everywhere I look. The real problem for me is to really evolve the implications and put what I know work. But I see that as being more a function of lack of a faith in myself than lack of faith in G-d.
     
  20. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    Netti,

    The first time I got into discussion here with you was when you were trying to play down the injustices carried out on people under Islamic law. Again here on this thread we broached the subject of Muhammad being a warlord and this is why at the root Islam is anything but a peaceful religion. You refuted that analysis.

    So now I return to this and make it clear why I state this to be a fact.

    The Koran is said to have been delivered from Allah to Muhammad by the angel Gabriel. To Muslims it is the directly related will of the almighty. My argument is that he was a warlord who was aware of what Constantine had done with Christianity and adopted a similar method for himself. Let us examine this now in more detail.

    In the beginning Muhammad was a powerless wannabe. In Mecca where he received his first "revelations" he was concerned about forming alliances and getting people on his side. And it is in these Koranic writings we find any mention of peace and acceptance of other beliefs and faiths. He at that point in his rise to power could not afford to have everybody as an enemy and so his talk reflected that reality. He would go on later to say that lying to the enemy is perfectly acceptable behaviour. (Sahih al Bukhari, Vol 4, Bk52,Hadith 269 :"war is deceit" and chapters 3 v28 and 16 v 106 of the Koran amongst others). For Muhammad it was a simple equation. You were either of the House of Islam, or of the House of War. You were either his follower or his enemy. Modern apologists and politicians have tried to spread the lie it is called the House of Peace. But that is what it is, a lie. The Arabic translation is clear it is the House of War. And that is what is taught in Islamic schools.

    So we have established that Muhammad deliberately lied to form alliances in Mecca and in the 2nd part of the Koran (chronologically), written in Medina, when he has advanced his quest for power and won some battles his language changes dramatically. The first thing he says in the Koran is that everything he says from now on supersedes that which was revealed to him in Mecca. In fact this is where the Islamic calender begins. Not from the birth of Muhammad but from when he becomes a military and political leader in Medina. The first victory of Jihad is the start point and this has well hidden but, to fundamental Muslims, very important symbolically recurring patterns on all subsequent Jihad. And we cannot forget for one moment that the separation of spiritual dimensions within Islam from political ones is not only impossible, it is heretical. This is in the Koran. It is irrefutable being the word of Allah himself, not up to negotiation or reinterpretation. In Medina Muhammad superseded all his lies in Mecca and said that all the enemies of Islam, (non Muslims), were to be killed or reduced to slavery.

    So we can see that from the outset Muhammad had a vision alright. And it was a vision of a megalomaniac warlord seeking complete power over everybody both politically and spiritually. Muhammad himself, by his own hand, is attributed to have beheaded 600-900 Jews in one incident alone where his army forced the already subdued prisoners to dig their own graves, lined them up beside them and beheaded them. In other incidents he cuts off opposite hands and feet and allows them to bleed slowly to death. A practice that goes on to this day in Sudan where Muslim extremists have murdered 1 million innocents.

    So when you say he was "also a diplomat" yeh he was. But he was a self-confessed liar as a diplomat and his only aim was absolute power for himself as a warlord. This man ruled by the sword and used divine sanction as a justification. But I posit that he knew his "revelations" from the angel Gabriel were utter lies. He was a liar, a murderer and his megalomaniac legacy by its nature to this day presents humanity with one of its greatest problems. Islam has begun its 3rd stage of expansion. It uses lies to fool the "enemy" into a false sense of what it is. And we remain blind to its real purpose at our peril. Muhammad negated all the peaceful lies he spoke in Mecca. The real Islam, that which all Muslims are commanded to follow is the one of what the apologists would call extremists.

    The west is caught in the Doctrine of Prof. Said and his book Orientalism where it is said any critical expression toward Islam is racist. This is a lie. This is the lie the Koran demands its believers to tell. Islam is supremacist and warlike, all its peaceful elements were lies and superseded by the command to subdue and destroy the enemies of Islam, everybody that is not an Arabic speaking Muslim.

    I could write for a long time citing chapter and verse to support these claims and if you insist I will. But what I have written is the truth. He was a megalomaniac warlord and I will never climb down from that position.


    tao
     

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