Man became a speaking spirit?

Discussion in 'Judaism' started by Dondi, May 14, 2008.

  1. Dondi

    Dondi Well-Known Member

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    I happened to be flipping the channels and came upon one of those Christian TV stations (one that espouses Word of Faith) and a lady was quoting from an Aramiac translation of Genesis 2:7 which said, "and man became a speaking spirit". The implication was that man at that point acquired the ability to speak the spoken word, rather than grunt like an animal.

    Now obviously, knowing what the Word of Faith movement entails, I knew they were using this to justify the idea of the 'power of speaking the Word' so prominent in their teachings. So my quetion isn't even pertaining to this.

    But I was intrigued by this translation and wondered if it had any validity in Jewish circles. I found this website, which espouses a book on kabbalah, which talked about it a bit more.

    The Beginning of Wisdom: Unabridged Translation of the Gate of Love

    Has anyone heard of this?
     
  2. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    I know that in some circles of Judaism they believe the woman is better at understanding and larger intuition drive because of Gen 2:7 Man being formed, woman being built and all.... The word Yitzer [formed - also inner drive.] is used in 2:7 and the word yiben [built - also insight, understanding and intution.] in 2:22.... lol sorry I have gone way off the radar right... *thinks of a way to redeem his post* It goes to show! That certain words can be seen as something different by others? lol...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2008
  3. dauer

    dauer Well-Known Member

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    Dondi,

    I am not entirely certain what you are asking but there are aramaic translations of the Torah that paraphrase somewhat, are not direct translations but themselves are a type of interpretation. Targum onkelos is the most well known of these translations.
     
  4. Dondi

    Dondi Well-Known Member

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    I guess what I'm asking is if there is there a significant difference between interpreting it "living soul" and "speaking spirit". Why would it be interpreted so?
     
  5. Dream

    Dream Well-Known Member

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    How about because of evolution? If we evolved, then we have to place a border between ourselves and animals. It makes sense in that case that when the story says life is breathed into man it must mean more than immediate animation, assuming there was evolution involved in the creation of humanity. Tons of people think evolution is how it all happened, so its worth thinking about. Apes are not very spiritual. What in the story could represent the beginnings of faith/intelligence/spirituality other than this inspiration? If there is evolution, then you could think of the breath as something that is still being put in. In a way it might mean that creation is still happening.
     
  6. voice

    voice Interfaith Forums

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    For me I don't have a problem with Aramaic translation. It gives me the same sense ,when i interpret with "living soul ." Let me make sense . Adam wasn't perfect man when created. He was mortal , material . He had in speaking spirit ,he couldn't be what he want be. There are Rabbis who teach good ,but not exampler to their listeners . They have a speaking spirit , but not perfect living soul ,immortal . We remember that he had not access to the tree of life.
     
  7. voice

    voice Interfaith Forums

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    I can't see in this allegory ,the cycle of BOTH perfection and imperfection . Perfection is attained ,when Man understand G _D ,the tree of Life. The tree of knowledge ,he ate ,may indicate him always ,where the cherubim (gate of paradise )are. It is the beginning of wisdom.
     
  8. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    Perfection is an ideal, a concept which is purposely unattainable.
    Imperfection then is everything else, and must be changed to better meet your ideal.
    When there is an infinite distance between your ideal and reality, it gives you a sense of purpose - and yet it is the very nature of suffering, because you will never grasp the ideal.

    Heaven is to realize it is already absolutely perfect, but you have to look from another angle - hence religion.

    The realization itself is the gate to paradise...
     
  9. voice

    voice Interfaith Forums

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    Thank you ;alleyah,luntik. May be you right , or , may be you and me looking, from different angle both correct.
     
  10. voice

    voice Interfaith Forums

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    In bereshit 1 the creaters are elohim. Elohim were the gods of nations in middle east. In bereshit 2 . . HaShem the G _D of Israel Y ***. Adam is the type of Jew. He has the "breath of life ",be he lacks perfection . In the allegory he hadn't eat the tree of life. The breath of life is immortal ,but this living soul ,Adam ,became . . . This doesn't mean no room for perfection.
     
  11. Lunitik

    Lunitik Interfaith Forums

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    You say he lacks perfection, in what way?
     
  12. voice

    voice Interfaith Forums

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    Truth is the way. Here ,Please don't ask pilate's question ,"what is Truth ?" Every one likes to hide behind lies . But you can't conceal yourself there. By suffering or science , Truth will eventually . . .
     
  13. bob x

    bob x Well-Known Member

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    Bot became a spiritless speaker?
     
  14. Ben Masada

    Ben Masada Well-Known Member

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    The Jewish validity of the text in Genesis 2:7 is the validity given by the Torah itself, and how it gives it; that when God formed man from the dust of the earth, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, man became a living soul. That's what the soul is; man's own identity as a man. The combination of the breath of life with the body. At death, this combination is undone, as the body goes back to the dust and the breath of life which,
    euphemistically, can be called spirit, goes back to God Who gave it, which is another euphemism for the expression, "it's gone." (Eccl. 12:7)
    Ben
     
  15. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    JESUS talked about baptism by fire which is spirit .There are 4 things. White spirit, Black Spirit, Soul and Body. The soul is center between black and white and is rainbow colored however the oneness of white and black is golden glow.. so its rainbow colored body with a golden glow....kinda like the hercules disney cartoon when hercules comes out of the abbyss. There is a 5th thing which is supersacred but has to do with sacred sex called the wedding chamber which only opens at certain times during that union even after the bodies are perfect , well its more like an activation within the bodies. Anyway this is the meaning of spirit stuff. It doesnt refer to death but infinite life. For this union its the oneness of black dove and white dove then a sealing stuff. This is also called a golden lotus as well as anointed one. This is marriage stuff as prophesied in scripture and refers to each being joined with ones own opposite so I guess it would be two white doves and two black doves.
     
  16. donnann

    donnann Well-Known Member

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    This is also the concept of black madonnna or mary magdalene but also white madonna. The oneness of this concept is golden as in the anointed one. However with this the black spirit is highest where the white spirit is lower while the opposite is white spirit is higher and black spirit is lower. The rainbow colors show the true selves to include eye , hair and skin color which will look different for each but be combinations of those lights.
     
  17. Ben Hur

    Ben Hur Interfaith Forums

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    According to the original in Hebrew, we have something more akin to Logic
    considering that spirits do not speak. It says that after man was formed from the dust of the ground, the Lord breathed in his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul. (Gen. 2:7) It means that the breath of life, once in the body, soul becomes a synonym with the person itself.

    To become is to be. If man became a living soul, that's what we are: Living souls. When we die, souls are undone as non-existent entities, that existed only in the combination of body with the breath of life.
     

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