Women's Work

Ah, a blast from the past! This is a dangerous topic isn't it? I think it's because everyone knows that the shared sense of gender equality we all share and stump for is utter bollocks, but nobody, and I do mean absolutely nobody is supposed to say that. Even I am afraid of this topic. I'm afraid to say what I actually think. Because nobody's gonna back you up once you stick your neck out on this one, are they?

Hmmmm....should I or shouldn't I?

Chris
Yes Chris, it's OK to point out that men and women are different.

China Cat Sunflower said:
Even I am afraid of this topic.
Ha! This guy was brave enough to write about the subject:
From Rudyard Kipling's Female of the Species

<...>
Man's timid heart is bursting with the things he must not say,
For the Woman that God gave him isn't his to give away;
But when hunter meets with husband, each confirms the others tale -
The female of the species is more deadly than the male.

Man, a bear in most relations, worm and savage otherwise,
Man propounds negotiations, Man accepts the compromise;
Very rarely will he squarely push the logic of a fact
To its ultimate conclusion in unmitigated act.
<...>​
:D
 
I dunno. If being a "man" means having to do all the hard, dirty, dangerous work I think I'd rather be treated like a lady. Only, I wouldn't enjoy the politics of pretty BS. I'd like to see true equality, but since that's impossible to even talk about, I've found, I don't hold out much hope for it.

Chris
 
...women wore white at weddings in the Western world because as a colour it symbolises purity, virginiality and innocence...

...women wear veils when they walk down the aisle because in the old days, when women were chattel (the property of men, with no higher status than cattle), a man would not have chosen his own bride, but would have been married to forge bonds between men... if she was ugly- tough- your daddy and her daddy wanted you to make this work, so you had to... this is also why we use terms such as "given away" to describe what the Dad does when he escorts his daughter down the aisle...

as for womens work and men's work...

I find it rather amusing that some people here can say we have grown beyond defining occupation along gender lines- you only have to look at primary schoolteachers or nurses to realise men do not feature highly here, because looking after the weak and the young is a woman's job...

there is also a disparity in business, and finance, and politics- although things appear to be changing women are often included in these areas simply to play lip-service to equality...

I was reading in the paper today, that 1 in 4 women will be beaten or assaulted by their husbands.... that is all women, not just, say, muslims, or paupers...

As a woman you are more likely to be murdered by a male family member or friend than by a random stranger or a terrorist attack.

If there wasn't such a thing as gender inequality these statistics would not exist...

I am strong, and practical. I put out and put back all the chairs at a group I attend. I easily lift a stack of six chairs, with one arm, and yet... the men in my group cannot handle this... they cannot do it themselves without putting their backs out, yet they laugh at my strength... they tell me that a little woman like me should not try to impress, and yet the men then try to compete with me to remove said chairs, even though they cannot manage it...

I have explained to them I "work out"... I laugh along with them while they call me Charlie Dimmock (a UK celebrity gardener), or Pansy Potter (the strong mans daughter, a character from a comic)... but still, even though I have been doing this chair thing for about a year, they want to protect my delicate self... I find it both hilarious and annoying...

This is not the first time I have been treated like this... I drink pints of real ale... men find this curious, so too my hand rolled cigarettes... they ask if I have tattoos... they wonder whether I do girls, instead of boys...

I sing, in a group... Vocally, I'm a tenor... and a very fine tenor too. Yet my group will not let me be a tenor, as these parts are not written for female voices. I am prepared to dress as a man, bind down my tits and wear a fake moustache, like a drag king, but still, no.

As a relatively thin and relatively attractive woman, I am encouraged to sing soprano- sing the teen girls roles, yet I am a tenor. Soprano is too high for me. Alto is also a little too high for me. I can be a contralto, as a woman, even though technically I am not so good there, as its pitched just a little too high for me, yet due to my age, and my build, even if I was completely comfortable in this range I wouldl never get a role as a contralto anyway, because women with deep voices are old, ugly things. Comedy characters.

I gave up boxing, which I loved, because where I lived I couldn't get a fight-there were no women at my club, and I wasn't allowed to fight men of my own age and size, simply because they were men, and I was a woman. As a woman I am forced to wear a headguard if I compete, like an ameteur, even in high level competitions. Even though head injuries occur in men the same as in women. We need more protection, simply because we have vaginas. And besides, we wouldn't want to mess up our pretty little faces, would we?

As a writer, or as a director, I am surrounded by men. Yes, we have our feminist publishing houses, yet most directors and producers, and most successful authors, are men. If you want to be successful as a woman in these fields, then you have to write chit lit, or make chick flicks- you want to make horror films, write semi serious genre-less stories? You shouldn't. As a woman you should be making rom-coms, and girlie road trip movies. It's all about the emotionality, the relationships, the love between two sisters.

But... I want to make slasher pics. Gangster movies. Big guns, explosions, gruesome murders. I want to do what the boys do.

And yet- why is this? Most of the men I know are weak fools. They cannot outrun me, or out-think me. Yet because they have that little swinging set on the outside, they automatically feel they are better than me, with my bleeding and dirty gash.

And we all play along with it. Subconsciously or otherwise. Girls can't deal with spiders, or lift heavy things, or deal with serious issues, because women are seen as weaker than men, both physically and intellectually. Men are not gossips, they are not good at processing their own emotions...

It's all a con. It is just another division dreamt up long ago which then meant we could effectively dismiss half the population. If women are weak, and stupid, and less than men, then we only have to deal with men. If we then add the class system into the mix, we can then also discount poor men, too, as if they were not fools they would be rich and have higher status. Then we only have to appease 25% of the population.

Nice odds.

Of course, things are changing, but they are not changing as quickly as they should. It's the same for race, too. We pretend we're all liberals, but we're not really.

"All animals are equal. But some are more equal than others".
-George Orwell, Animal Farm.
 
oh, imsorry, thats right you have a penis, there fore youcan and I cannot............................. blah, blah, blah..............


i just wanna be looked after and protected and safe.
pathetic isnt it??
imsick of doing it myself
 
ok ok heres for the womens lib movement going backwards all because of little old me
this is what i would have like to have

i would have liked to stay at home and raise mykids and have tea ready and the house clean for my "husband". Yes its very cliche. it never happened.

reality...... i worked, he didnt . i raised the kids,, i worked he didnt....... blah, blah, whose to blame??? no one, thats life........... maybe my next life, eh?
 
oh, imsorry, thats right you have a penis, there fore youcan and I cannot............................. blah, blah, blah..............


i just wanna be looked after and protected and safe.
pathetic isnt it??
imsick of doing it myself

Not pathetic at all... Couldn't be further from the truth... It is your right to be proctected, safe and supported. :)
 
I find it rather amusing that some people here can say we have grown beyond defining occupation along gender lines- you only have to look at primary schoolteachers or nurses to realise men do not feature highly here, because looking after the weak and the young is a woman's job...
I want to bite my tongue, Francis, but I really must protest this. It is grossly inaccurate. The link I pointed to earlier brings out some of the things I would say here, but I will try to summarize briefly. In primary school *I* had male teachers, and I am well into middle age now. I work with nurses every day I go in to work, and a surprising number of them are males. So I really do think this is a deliberately biased and bigoted view of things.

Are there as many men in traditionally female roles as you personally might prefer? Perhaps not, but let us consider for a moment the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" dilemma men are faced with. A man that expresses interest in child care as an occupation is automatically assumed, by those same liberated females, to be a child molesting pervert on the prowl. Sure, men face gender stereo-type ridicule from other men too, but generally not of the kind that can ruin lives, families and reputations. Like some sniping women are all too eager to do.

I was reading in the paper today, that 1 in 4 women will be beaten or assaulted by their husbands.... that is all women, not just, say, muslims, or paupers...
I wonder if anybody has done the research on how many men are subjected to mental cruelty and mental abuse by women? And what those stats are?

As a woman you are more likely to be murdered by a male family member or friend than by a random stranger or a terrorist attack.
While this may be true, it is also true that a woman is far more likely to catch a cold or drop a frying pan on her own toe than be murdered by anybody. She is more likely to die in a car crash, or of self-inflicted injury from lifestyle choices, than to be murdered. Heart disease, diabetes, cancer, overdose, and depressive suicide *each* far outweigh any threat of extreme violence with bodily injury or death. A woman is more likely to outlive a man, by some 8 to 10 years last I heard.

To contrast, how much more likely is a man to be subjected to a woman's hormonally induced irrational behavior? I would say about 2 in 30, on average, wouldn't you?

:eek:
 
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Are there as many men in traditionally female roles as you personally might prefer? Perhaps not, but let us consider for a moment the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" dilemma men are faced with. A man that expresses interest in child care as an occupation is automatically assumed, by those same liberated females, to be a child molesting pervert on the prowl. Sure, men face gender stereo-type ridicule from other men too, but generally not of the kind that can ruin lives, families and reputations.
Some big truths in that and several campaigns to recruit more men into pre-teen schooling have failed miserably for just those reasons. Which in this era of many children having only one parent (usually female) means many kids grow up with no positive male role models. For boys especially, this is not healthy.


I wonder if anybody has done the research on how many men are subjected to mental cruelty and mental abuse by women? And what those stats are?
This too is something that holds some weight but is more or less dismissed when it comes to the debate. I for one would certainly not tolerate any mind games or unreasonable pressure in a relationship now. Women often cover with a joke that men are like children that cannot wipe their own backsides without help when the truth is men are extremely capable of looking after themselves but have a different psychology of prioritisation. Women can often be just as cruel and manipulative with their psychological warfare as any man and the incidence of physical violence against men though lower, at 1 in 10, is still statistically significant. That said two wrongs do not make a right and a man convicted of violence against a woman is usually capable of same against his children. I am all for zero tolerance of any violence and I am glad that the courts take this issue a lot more seriously now.


While this may be true, it is also true that a woman is far more likely to catch a cold or drop a frying pan on her own toe than be murdered by anybody. She is more likely to die in a car crash, or of self-inflicted injury from lifestyle choices, than to be murdered. Heart disease, diabetes, cancer, overdose, and depressive suicide *each* far outweigh any threat of extreme violence with bodily injury or death. A woman is more likely to outlive a man, by some 8 to 10 years last I heard.
Here you do not have my support, how can you compare catching a cold or having an accident with domestic murder? Statistically it is an undeniable fact that you are more likely to be murdered by a spouse than anyone else but that cuts both ways. Also the rate of suicide amongst men is significantly higher in relationships than in women.

I think we are still in the early days of reaching a fair and equal gender balance for living in the modern world and we are all going to have to show a little patience. Many women want and are happiest with a man who is strong and shows leadership in a relationship. Some women seek an equal partnership and others want to wear the boots. What works for one couple will never be perfect for every couple. In the workplace things are different and some discrimination does exist in both salary and career climbing differentials. I think in the case of salary there should be legislative moves to end this discrimination. But I do not see how to legislate the glass ceiling without making that legislation open to abuse by individuals that are unsuited to the posts and are using it to make a quick buck. Whatever happens men and women are going to continue to rib and snipe at each other as they have always done. Mostly it is harmless fun and recognition of our differences. And if we ever lose that then we are really in crisis.



tao
 
maybe its because some of us dont know what we really want. Honestly, we want a partner but i, for one, dont want to be totally equal in some respects. I still want to be treated like a lady, but if i have to change a tyre (for example) i will, i wont like it and if there is a man present and he doesnt offer to do it for me, he will be tormented for the rest of his natural days, just as i would take over doing the more "womanly" thing, eg, Dont tell me how to clean anything....... oh, i just realized , im not helping my cause am I? LOL
oh well, i told you I didnt know what i wanted.............back into the kitchen with me.......
 
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