Discussion in 'Christianity' started by mee, Jul 25, 2008.
...lions and tigers and bears, oh my...
and not forgetting the sheep
and the goats and llamas
Yes, I make it my issue to learn the issues surrounding what Jesus meant.
Fine, you declare that you attempt something that is not your choice to make.
The words I speak were not chosen by you. The way that you receive words were not chosen by me.
Why not ask mee if he gives a rip? Does mee care if my every word is not on subject?
Do you like having people trust you? There is a definition. Do you trust others? There is a different definition. You have and know your definitions of the words, but you get angry as I verbally discuss that. I wish that you didn't get angry. I wish that you didn't take it as a 'poke' or a 'prod'. The 'poke' and 'prod' are for animals and there is no animal that is poked or prodded by mere words.
Similarly I am interested in what you think it means to be a 'peacemaker' or to 'bring peace', but I get the feeling that you don't really give a rip. It appears to me that you prefer to use the words to dress yourself up, like makeup, rather than explore what you mean by them... or what Jesus meant. I'd say that has a lot to do with cleaning the outside... 'to clean things up' being the other phrase that I saw you using there.
Differences between how you use a couple of words, and how Jesus used a couple of words, caught my attention. As you have declared, that is my issue. I asked you questions and you called it poking and prodding. That is your choice to view it that way, and so you don't want to hear my intent... you were already content with the one that you made. You want to call it my intent to poke and to prod, or to be off subject... who am I to argue with that.
It's a combination of my choice and others' choices, which yields social and cultural trends. I can only work on my end of the deal. I'm an idealist, so yeah, I'll attempt all kinds of things that may or may not work out. It's my intent that I think matters. The outcome is outside my control.
You are free to ask mee. I care if my posts are on subject to the OP. I tend to think new subjects deserve a new OP. So that's my choice. You can choose to post stuff that is off topic IMO, and I can choose to avoid responding unless it is in its own thread.
First, I'm not discussing trust in some thread that isn't about trust.
Second, I'm not angry. I very rarely get angry, and some post on a discussion board is very unlikely to make me feel angry. There are just a lot more important things in life. If I manage to avoid anger as a response to all sorts of cruelty and neglect I witness in life, some discussion board post that disagrees with me is kind of a no-brainer in the area of emotional non-response.
Third, if you think animals can't be poked or prodded with words, you haven't met my horse. I also don't see how any of that is relevant.
Why not post a thread and see?
To be honest, it doesn't really matter to me how I appear to others. I'm here to share, to think, to explore, to learn. I'm not here to have people think I'm great or wonderful. That isn't the point of my life.
If you want to think I don't investigate the meaning of words (my meaning or others') that is your perogative and it's sort of irrelevant to me. Being in your or anyone else's esteem isn't my goal in life. I think if you actually read a lot of my posts, even recent ones, you'll see me discuss definitions and meanings, and the value and non-value that I think they have. There are several on various words just in the last week alone. But if you don't want to, or want to assign other motives to me, it doesn't much matter. I mean, we're just two people on a discussion board. It's just not a big deal.
You want to keep assuming all sorts of things about me, have at it. Join the crowds of people who have done it before. LOL I'm too experienced at having people judge me to care anymore. It's like water off a duck's back. I'm not easily penetrated and a person has to be really, really close to me to hurt me. Believe whatever you want about me that makes yourself feel better. I'm glad to be of assistance however I can in bringing people happiness.
You never went into details. I responded to the only detail you gave (about peace vs. a sword) and gave my reasoning. So it is you who have failed to address the issue, only stating vague generalizations and assumptions about me. But hey, like I said (and like the Cheryl Crow song says), if it makes you happy...
Actually, I asked if you were meaning to poke and prod. You just didn't respond to that question until now. If you wish to say more about me personally and your assumptions about me, it is probably best done elsewhere. It's off-topic too. I doubt mee had in mind some meaningless sparring. And yes, it is my opinion it is meaningless. No doubt you find great meaning in it all, just so that you are contrary to my opinion, but that is par for course.
You have assumed that people want to hurt you, and you assume that what you call hurt is worth defending.
Assuming what I know? Show me when and where I said that I poke... or prod.
Nope. Look at what I wrote. What I assumed was that you would know that anger is often a response to being hurt or afraid. I did not assume others (you, anyone) want to hurt me, but rather failed to make enough of a connection for you that I am not angry (as you assumed) because I don't get hurt that easily (hurt ---> anger for me). What I was saying is that it used to make me hurt (and therefore sometimes angry) that people assumed all sorts of things about me, and wrongly interpreted what I say/do/am/whatever, or thought badly of me in some way.
Then I sort of grew up more and realized none of it matters, as it's all temporary anyway, so the only thing I should worry about is if I feel right with and connected to God. If so, then I am the best me that I can be, and if others dislike it, I can't help that. I don't think I'm on earth to win a popularity contest. Once I realized all this on an emotional level, I became kind of impervious to others' assumptions about me, whether positive or negative. I neither felt on a "high" when people liked me, nor did I feel "low" when people didn't. It just didn't matter. The exceptions, which I just haven't worked through yet, are those closest to me in my family. The attachment to them means it hurts when they are unhappy, even more so when unhappy because of me. But I see that as a flaw in myself. My entire focus should ideally be on being the best being I can be with relationship to the Divine. That's partly what I'm hashing out for myself here on CR.
Hope that explains it sufficiently.
I have no idea what you're talking about with hurt and defense. That part made no sense to me.
In one of our conversations you indicated that you enjoy debate for the sake of debate, that you like seeing how people respond to your challenges. To me, that's kind of like poking something to see how it responds. You know, like how kids will poke the family dog to see what he does. Not out of meanness, just out of curiosity. I think that's a tendency to be curious about how a being responds, but not being genuinely interested in the actual subject matter that is the context, or their actual response. Hence, instead of sticking to the subject matter, it becomes a debate like we're in now about "I said, then you said, then I said" on matters of irrelevant minutia.
I was saying that I don't find that useful, particularly with regards to interpreting sacred text or informing my spirituality. Kind of like poking the family dog will show you how the dog responds, but that's all kind of entertainment value for people with no substance. Of course, it may be where you find deep meaning in life. Such is human diversity.
Hope that helps explain my actual thoughts for you.
So then I said 'debate', and you heard the word 'poke'... and then modelled yourself as a dog. I am relieved then that I did not truly say that I 'poke', or 'prod' with words. I also do not debate with dogs... it just seems like the words roll right off them like water off the back of a duck. That is unless of course those words have been associated with deterrents or bribes. But I will likewise refuse to believe that you are a dog... for no dog that I know considers a word to be a poke or a prod, and no dog that I know barks much of anything if I ask them how they would explain some words from Jesus.
Um, OK. I already said I'm more than happy to discuss things, either relative to this topic in this thread or if you want new topics, in other threads. I already said what I thought about the meaning. So I'm not sure why you're still going on about it all.
And by the way, I don't mind thinking about myself in analogies to dogs or ducks. I like dogs and ducks. I relate to the animal kingdom. After all, I am an animal.
And here is something better
"How comely upon the mountains are the feet of the one . . . bringing good news of something better."—ISAIAH 52:7.
It is comforting to know that the Bible proclaims good news.
It is the news that sickness, hunger, crime, war, and all sorts of oppression will be brought to an end by God’s Kingdom. (Psalm 46:9; 72:12)
And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.matthew 24;14
that message in isaiah uses such terms as "salvation," "good news," "peace," and "something better."
Centuries after Isaiah, in the first century C.E., Jesus Christ fulfilled this prophecy in an outstanding way by setting a zealous example in publishing news of something better—the coming Kingdom of God. (Luke 4:43)
In modern times, , Jehovah’s Witnesses have followed Jesus’ example by zealously proclaiming the good news of God’s established Kingdom and the blessings it will bring
What effect does the Kingdom good news have on those who respond to it?
Today as in Jesus’ day, the good news gives hope and comfort. (Romans 12:12; 15:4)
It gives honesthearted ones hope because they learn that there are solid reasons for believing that better times are ahead.
(Matthew 6:9, 10; 2 Peter 3:13)
Although the message that Jehovahs witnesses make known contains the best news, many reject it.
SOMETHING BETTER IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER
Thanks for bringing us back on track to the original post, mee. I apologize for the de-railment.
I agree that something better is coming... I think something better is always coming. As we grow in God, we see more of God revealed in our lives, and our lives get better- not necessarily because of physical changes, but changes in our soul, leading us to gratitude, peace, and joy.
I just think that in terms of the world getting better, we should work with God to make it so. I'm not saying you don't do this, mee, but I've noticed a trend in some Christian churches to act like we have no responsibility for the problems of the world. Like we're just waiting around for Jesus to fix it all. Whether or not Jesus comes to fix it, my thought is He'd want to see us busy on our bit of the improvements. Feeding his sheep, as you'd put it. Both spiritually and literally, as He did.
yes, Jesus would want to see if his followers were doing what he asked matthew 28;19-20
and he has already done that inspection when he came to inspect things, and the ones that were doing the will of God he gave even more responsibility too. matthew 24;45-47
and the feeding of the sheep is a full time job ,that is why the faithful ones have to have helpers to get the job done .
and those helpers are willing and eager to help the channel that Jesus is feeding .
Separate names with a comma.