Origins of Jesus Christ

Discussion in 'Ancient History and Mythology' started by Tommy Shue, Jul 28, 2008.

  1. Divos

    Divos New Member

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    You mean Jacob??

    "James the Just" (Just ? Justus)
    James, son of Alphaeus
    James, son of Zebedee
    James the Less
    There is NO JAMES - ITS ALWAYS JACOB
    whom is also father of Joseph

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  2. Operacast

    Operacast Member

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    AND WHY IS THERE NO SCRIPTURAL PARALLEL TO THIS JOSEPHUS PASSAGE?

    STOP

    PLAYING

    GAMES

    AND

    ADDRESS

    THIS

    N O O O O O O O O W !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Operacast
     
  3. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule New Member

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    Good grief! What on earth are you babbling about?
     
  4. Operacast

    Operacast Member

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    It's Divos who's doing the babbling. Divos has come out on a previous page with this cockamamie idea that Josephus's secular chronicle of Jewish history during the 1st century c.e. -- Josephus's Antiquities -- somehow inspired all the gospels and various scriptural texts in the NT. Divos asserts this as a way to show that Jesus the normal human being -- never mind as son of God -- is/was a total fiction from soup to nuts. In fact, there's a cottage industry on the Net today of mytherists who maintain that Jesus the human being and the son of God are alike fictional. It's all based on faux scholarship that's totally bogus and ignorant -- and often based on flagrantly inaccurate and deceptive "facts" about the texts, both scriptural and non-scriptural, where Jesus the human being makes an appearance.

    If Josephus really inspired the gospels -- a crank idea that no SECULAR PROFESSIONAL scholar subscribes to -- then how come Josephus's account of a confrontation between the priest Ananus and Jesus's brother James has no parallel to anything in scripture whatsoever? How then could there be any relationship between Josephus and scripture? It's plain that we have in Josephus the word of a non-believer in the Christ angle, a Roman Jew in fact, the word of a contemporary of James, the word of a fellow resident in Jerusalem, who's reporting this clash between Ananus and James as a first-hand secular observer who's aware of Jesus solely as the dead brother of this guy James and not as the savior figure in scripture.

    But when we try to ask Divos how come Josephus "the inspirer of the gospels" presents an account of James which tallies with none of the scriptural refs. to James at all, Divos just dances around the issue like the worst kind of troll. It's bloody time for him to put up or shut up. WHY DOES JOSEPHUS'S ACCOUNT OF JAMES BEAR NO RELATIONSHIP TO ANY SCRIPTURAL ACCOUNT OF JAMES AT ALL?

    It's growing very clear that Divos won't address this question honestly and directly because he DOESN'T KNOW how to account for that, and accounting for that properly would torpedo his whole crank idea.

    Every post of his pointedly avoids this elephant in the living room.

    Why are you asking me what's going on? Can't you read the last two or three pages of this thread on your own? Look, if you think this is babbling, try taking a glimpse at an 885-page thread that's going on right now on the Internet over this very question ( What Can We Reasonably Infer About The Historical Jesus? : Christianity • Rational Skepticism Forum )! This is a fraught issue because some of us think that mytherism is tantamount to hate speech.

    Operacast
     
  5. Divos

    Divos New Member

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    lol red letters someones mad, hehe

    I am trying to Unlock this Josephus, who is he?

    I believe the term Christ is a much later rendition, for example Tacitus/Suetonius quote not "Christ" but "Chresti

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    Clear Evidence that history has being tampered with, to prove the Jesus myth, remember, its the Royals who write the History, and it is they, who create Gods, to ordain themselves with authority.

    More Jesus Clones

    Here are More Jesus

    Jesus son of Gamala
    Jesus son of Sapphias
    Jesus son of Saphat
    Jesus son of Ananus
    Jesus Son of Joseph
    Jesus son of Damneus
    Justus son of Josephus Flavius

    Then
    Jesus Justus - Jesus Justus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Jesus who is called Justus)

    then
    Jesus Barabbas (son of the father and Jesus, son of the father respectively)

    Acts 1:23
    And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

    Joseph, who was called "Barsabas" - and was sure named "Justus" AND "Matthias"
    then we have "JESUS Barabbas, then a JUSTUS who is called Jesus

    Barsabas means "son of Sabus" - bar-sab'-as

    e.g.

    Jesus son of Sapphias (Jesus Bar_sapphias)
    Jesus son of Saphat (Jesus_Bar_saphat)

    Gaius Titeous Justus


    Joshua ben Gamaliel 63-64-his wife Martha belonged to family of Boethus

    Sabus
    Sabus is a character in the mythology of the Sabines of Italy, the son of the god Sancus (called by some Jupiter Fidius). The Sabines were said to have taken their name from his
    note. The English words sanction and saint are directly derived from Sancus

    Sabus is a character in the mythology of the Sabines of Italy, the son of the god Sancus (called by some Jupiter Fidius) or precisely.

    (The FLAVIUS Family are from SABINES (SABUS) (JO_SABUS)

    Thus, Sabas became "Sapa"

    and Jupiter, is IOVE which is yahweh (Yah)

    Titus is derived from the Legendary King of Sabines (Sabas), and Josephus is names "Titus Flavius Josephus"
    then we have a "Son of Sabas" (Barsabas) who is JOSEPH, JESUS and JUSTUS also called Matthias (also father and Brother of Josephus)

    The original spelling of 'Josephus' as 'Josepos' in Greek as demonstrated various times throughout the works of Flavius

    Jo_Sepos latinized as "Io_Sepus" or "Io_sabus" thus, Joseph is Barabbas or Barnabbas (unrelated to Torah Joseph)

    (Titus Flavius Josephus)
    TITUS FLAVIUS IOVE SEBUS

    Sebus

    Acts 1:23
    And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
    -- Writers of Act, cannot resolve who is who???

    Sabus is the son of the god Sancus (called by some Jupiter Fidius/Dius Fidius)

    also note, Titus Flavius Sabinus (father of Vespasian), Vespasian being Son of Sabinus, in aramaic, he is also Barabbas or Barnabas.

    Titus Flavius Sabinus
    Titus Flavius Sebus
    --------- IoSEBUS (Josephus ) Jospos > Gospol

    Here is another strange Verse
    Acts 14:12
    Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul they called Hermes because he was the chief speaker.
    - Zeus is also "Jupiter" "Iove" "Yahweh"

    (Titus Flavius Josephus)
    TITUS FLAVIUS IOVE SEBUS (Son of Sabinus) (Josephus was a Flavian)

    Jesus = Justus = joses = Matthias = Zeus = Sabus = Barnabas = Barabus = Joseph = Titus-Flavius ??????

    This is one big Jigsaw

    There NEVER was a JAMES (You are being FOOLED by king JAMES, he replaced JACOB with JAMES (his name)
     
  6. Divos

    Divos New Member

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    Jesus VS/IS Titus Flavius ?????

    Start of a campaign

    Titus
    describes this battle as the "onset" of his command of the army "(War 3,10,2)" Written by Josephus

    Jesus
    this is the start of the sole ministry of Jesus

    Sent By His Father

    Titus
    "he sent away his son Titus to Caesarea" (War 3,9, 7)
    "Barnabas, Son of Sebus/Sabinus"

    Jesus
    sent by his father in heaven

    His followers followed

    Titus
    "entered the city the first of them all, and the others soon after him" (War 3, 10, 5

    Jesus
    "brought their boat to shore and followed him" (Luke 5:10)

    Reassures troops not to be afraid

    Titus
    "you know very well that I go into danger first, do not therefore desert me" (War 3, 10, 2)

    Jesus
    "Do not be afraid" (Luke 5:10)


    Reference to Chorazain

    Titus
    "it produces the Coracin fish" (War 3, 10, 8)

    Jesus
    "Woe to you Chorazain" ( Matt. 11:23)

    Presence of a Jesus

    Titus
    Jesus is the leader of the rebels at the Sea of Galilee

    Jesus
    another Jesus is the leader of disciples at the Sea of Galilee

    Fishing for men

    Titus
    the Jews fall out of their boats "such as were drowning in the sea... attempted to swim to their enemies, the Romans cut off either their heads or their hands" (War 3, 10, 8, clause 527)

    Jesus
    "I will make you fishers of men" (Matt. 4:19)

    TITUS CRUCIFIED ( HIS Armour Placed on a CROSS (Cruciform Trophy) (Effigy of Titus, alike God-Caesar) (Judea Resurrects as part of the Roman Empire-Kingdom of God) (re-enactment of Caesar's Funeral)

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    Capta = Golgotha

    Angels appear to Titus
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    The Entire Gospel is a Parody
    Titus Flavius Josephus = Titus Flavius Sebinus
    Josephus > Jospos > Gospol
    Josephus is also claimed to be a Prophet

    Gospels symbolism found in Josephus Writings (because he wrote it)
    (A) He speaks of the “skill” of expelling demons. (pg. 125, 173) - (Ant. B. VI, Ch. II, 1; Ant. B. VIII, Ch. II, 5)
    (B) He is the first to speak of a “laser root,” which in later mythology becomes the “mandrake root.” (pg. 42, 595-596) - (Ant. B. I, Ch. XIX, 8; Wars of Jews., Book. VII, Ch. VI, 3)
    (C) He perpetuates the idea of “signs” and omens. See the omen of the ‘owl’. (pg. 386) (Ant. B. XVIII, Ch. VI, 7) And also; (pg. 412) (Ant. B. XIX, Ch. VIII, 2)
    (D) The idea of “Ghosts.” (pg. 112, 266) - (Ant. B. V, Ch. II, 8; Ant. B. XII, Ch. XI, 2)
    (E) The idea of “Angels.” (pg. 119) (Antiquities of the Jews, B. V, Ch. VIII, 3)
    (F) “Evil Spirits and Demons.” (pg. 136) (Ant. B. VI, Ch. XI, 2)
    (G) Fortune Tellers and “Mediums” (pg. 143) (Ant. B. VI, Ch. XIV, 2)
    (H) Prophets telling the future and showing “signs”, wonders and miracles. (pg. 184, 429) (Ant. B. VIII, Ch. VIII, 5; Wars of the Jews, Preface, 11)
    (I) The idea of “Witches.” (pg. 202) (Ant. B. VIII, Ch. VI, 3)
    (J) He invented the saying of “Grace.” (pg. 250) (Ant. B. XII, Ch. II, 12)
    (K) The idea of “Royal Birthright,” which we no longer believe in today.
    (pg. 348) (Ant. B. XVI, Ch. VIII, 1)
    (L) An eclipse of the moon as a “sign,” a “sign” that could be predicted with accuracy by the astronomers and High Priests of the day (pg. 365) (Ant. B. XVII, Ch. VI, 4)
    (M) “Some Supernatural Providence” (pg. 432) Providence (Supernatural), ordained, divine (pg. 466) (W. of J, B. I, Ch. III, 6; W. B. II, Ch. XXXI, 3)
    (N) Promoted the phrase “God Forbid.” (pg. 528) (W. B. IV, Ch. III, 10)
    (O) Other “signs,” such as a star resembling a sword and a comet that continued a whole year. Check on this! We should be able to tell by what we know about astronomy today if this is really a true statement. (pg. 582) Note that he speaks of these ‘signs’ as appearing before the destruction of Jerusalem. (Wars, B. VI, Ch. V, 3)
    (P) He writes of religion as being (for those who can “see” it) as the most profitable “business,” saying, “... to make the altar every day fat with sacrifices of great value.” (pg. 205) (Ant. B. IX, Ch. VIII, 2)

    Josephus originates Christian HELL (yet not a Jewish belief)
    1. NOW as to Hades, wherein the souls of the of the good things they see, and rejoice in the righteous and unrighteous are detained, it is necessary to speak of it. Hades is a place in the world not regularly finished; a subterraneous region, wherein the light of this world does not shine; from which circumstance, that in this region the light does not shine, it cannot be but there must be in it perpetual darkness. This region is allotted as a place of custody for souls, ill which angels are appointed as guardians to them, who distribute to them temporary punishments, agreeable to every one's behavior and manners.
     
  7. Operacast

    Operacast Member

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    Since you have never once addressed the dissimilarity to scripture in Josephus's account of either Jacob/Ananus or James/Ananus -- the latter distinction doesn't really matter here at all -- it's now evident you have no intention of addressing just how much this dissimilarity discredits your bald assertion that Josephus inspired the gospels(!). You're like some tawdry web site that throws up more and more irrelevant pop-ups the more it's explored. You're a waste of everybody's time, just like Raven, and a virtual spammer to boot. I'm going to ignore you from now on, and I strongly suggest that others do the same.

    Operacast
     
  8. Divos

    Divos New Member

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    Josephus(Titus Flavius Sabinus) CREATED the gospels in the first place
     
  9. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    Operacast, you are sparring well, but keep that "where is the proof" jab going.

    Pax et amore omnia vincunt
     
  10. Operacast

    Operacast Member

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    It honestly seems to me now that he's never going to address that. He's simply delivering a screed from on high, and bother the very notion of "discussion". I've decided it's a waste of time. If you want to try and get him to pin all this down, go to it. But I doubt you'll get anywhere either (I could be wrong). If my using big bold italic red type couldn't get him to focus ........... <shrug>

    He seems like a cross between a spammer and a troll, and you can't talk to posters like that. I've noticed that a lot of mythers are like that. They've been brainwashed and programmed, and they never depart from their repetitive screeds. Maybe he really is a bot, although one has to wonder who might benefit from programming such a bot? In whose interest is it?!

    Cheers,

    Operacast
     
  11. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    The interest would be a universal antisenitism. Hence I believe him to be a Newtzibot! Yep, I share your frustration. Catch his book ('Jesus was Caesar': New book by Philosopher and Linguist Francesco Carotta Claims That the real identity of Jesus Christ has Been Discovered) downloaded most of it and (besides verifying who he is, Francesco Carotta or someone in his inner circle) it (1) is filled with the same type of tripe (it never occurs to him that JC's real name was not the latinized Jesus Christos but Joshua Meshiach--or something pretty close) and (2) is filled with the same kind of unexamined leaps of faith).

    Pax et amore omnia vincunt!

    P.S. what do YOU think the "origins of Jesus Christ" are?
     
  12. Divos

    Divos New Member

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    If you read the bible, for thats is 100% true, your a Myther, there is no such thing as MAGIC, but you can Invent Harry Potter who can do Magic



    Gospels where not Written in Hebrew, the Language of those days where Aramaic and Greek

    I think your the Troll, acts like a Baby when people attack his Penis Christ.

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  13. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    Oh, finally touched a nerve, eh? Well, if Jesus Christ lived anything like what is described (and it is really, really hard to imagine why the Romans would invent a jewish boy to be their G!d), the Aramaic form is Eosha Mishikah (as I said "or something pretty close", oh, a heck of a lot closer than "Gaius Julius Caeser", oh, which one can get from his "Commentaries on the Gallic War").

    Pax et amore omnia vincunt!

    P.S. at least I do not suffer from brain envy, you pornographer.
     
  14. Etu Malku

    Etu Malku Mercuræn

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    boys, boys . . . the erect penis in Egyptian culture is a phallus and has fertility and cultural implications . . . such dirty minds :rolleyes:
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  15. Divos

    Divos New Member

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    The Ancients where the ones that where superstitious about Sex, they believed the Universe was created when Adam Masturbated, created Air_water which formed Earth_Sky, you can read about it in genesis 1.

    Why invent the word "Christ" and not transliterates "Messiah", the belief of coming "Messiahs" is a Christian belief, not a Jewish Belief, because Cyrus, was not even Jewish, yet, he is a Messiah

    "Gaius Julius Caeser is Theo, first deified man within the Roman Empire, hundreds of epigraphial proof that the Cross and the Star where His Imperial Cult Symbols
     
  16. Operacast

    Operacast Member

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    I believe it's no coincidence that the more colloquial the Koine Greek style in the various scriptures of the N.T., the less the given content has to do with magic and the more it has to do with ethical/social/cultural reforms/norms. I don't pretend to be conversant with Koine Greek, but as I understand from various readings both on and off cyberspace, philological analysis of different sequences in different sections of the various texts in the NT appear to reveal certain discrete textual strata, going from a very colloquial apparently oral style (which seems the earliest) to a highly self-conscious literary style (which seems the latest). Extremely embellished self-consciously literary Koine Greek typifies magic sequences like the Virgin Birth narrative in Luke and much of John, while the most colloquial and apparently oral style typifies much of Mark and many of the Jesus sayings that Matthew and Luke have in common. Note that the latter has mostly to do with a) mundane details, and b) social reform.

    From this pattern and from the sometimes disparaging descriptions we find in non-scriptural texts like the Mishnah, Tacitus, Josephus, Pliny, etc., we can see emerge an entirely mortal rabbi, called Jesus/Joshua, who viewed Yahweh as "my Father" and who preached a new Kingdom of God where the weaker would be succored by the stronger and where we would all lose our lives in service to others and where we would all love even our enemies. No question this was utopian and also an apparent threat to Roman authorities. He ended up crucified by the Romans as a result.

    After his death, supernatural embellishments were added to his history by his devastated followers.

    You're not far off in guessing that anti-semitism is at least part of the engine for much of this nonsense. I was sickened by a real eye-opener of a thread elsewhere, where one pretty ineffective poster went practically ballistic at the flagrant anti-semitism on display ( Anti-semitism in Biblical Reading (split from 1 Corinthians 11) - FRDB ). Further exploration on that board showed that their more flagrant anti-semites and their more fixated mythers were virtually one and the same.

    Cheers,

    Operacast
     
  17. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    Well, let us try this "Meshiach" ("annointed" in Hebrew) becomes " Mishikah" (in Aramaic), becomes "Khristos" (in Greek.... translating "annointed") becomes "Christos" in Latin. All four mean the same thing. The Aramaic is a vulgar of the Hebrew and Latin a vulgar of the Greek.

    What makes more sense. First that the Hebrew is a vulgate of the Hebrew, which is directly translated into the Greek (in the Septuagint, long before either JC), which is subsequently transliterated into Latin. Second that someone creates "Christos" out of the name of Gaius Julius Caesar and uses it to refer to a Jew, oh, and the word "just happens" to be the exact word used in Greek to translate "Messiah"?

    Let us lay odds that this is correct and your "pick a letter from the name of Gaius Julius Caesar" is not. A billion to one against? I say higher.

    Pax et amore omnia vincunt!
     
  18. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    Operacast, I believe you are real, real close. Look up the works of Ehrman. One of the things I dream about doing is creating a "No sh_t New New Testament" which would incorporate Mary and Thomas and delete Timothy and Revelation. You know, expunge the bad material and re-insert the good. Too busy trying to provide a home, though!

    Pax et amore omnia vincunt
     
  19. Divos

    Divos New Member

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    Fact is

    Julius Caesar - First Deified MAN
    Julius Caesar - They Created a [WAX_EFFIGY] for his Funeral, which was placed upon a Cruciform, as the Coins show

    WAX = OIL - CHRISM/CERUS [Christ] [where we get Kerosene] - the Word has close proximation to the term [Crux/Cross]


    A Christ is a Wax Effigy - Unless you believe that Jesus was a Man, that was made of Oil, or Wax

    [​IMG]
    No doubt, above Cruci-Figure was made from Wax[Cerus]
    Caesar funeral occurred around the Bacchus Festival[Βάκχος]
     
  20. radarmark

    radarmark Quaker-in-the-Making

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    Gee, I thought the liguistic argument was much more effective!

    Pax et amore omnia vincunt!
     

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