What Makes Christianity Relevant Today?

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by lunamoth, Sep 12, 2008.

  1. Dor

    Dor Bible Thumper

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    Is there still sin in this world that people need forgiveness from?
     
  2. sonoman

    sonoman Interfaith Forums

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    Originally Posted by lunamoth
    "What contribution can only Christianity make to the world?"

    The identity of God and humanity's role in Creation.
     
  3. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    We named the animals?
     
  4. sonoman

    sonoman Interfaith Forums

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    Man gave names to all the animals
    In the beginning, in the beginning
    Man gave names to all the animals
    In the beginning, long time ago.

    He saw an animal that liked to growl
    Big furry paws and he liked to howl
    Great big furry back and furry hair
    "Ah, think I'll call it a bear".

    Man gave names to all the animals
    In the beginning, in the beginning
    Man gave names to all the animals
    In the beginning, long time ago.

    He saw an animal up on a hill
    Chewing up so much grass until she was filled
    He saw milk coming out but he didn't know how
    "Ah, think I'll call it a cow".

    Man gave names to all the animals
    In the beginning, in the beginning
    Man gave names to all the animals
    In the beginning, long time ago.

    He saw an animal that liked to snort
    Horns on his head and they weren't too short
    It looked like there wasn't nothing that he couldn't pull
    "Ah, I'll think I'll call it a bull".

    Man gave names to all the animals
    In the beginning, in the beginning
    Man gave names to all the animals
    In the beginning, long time ago.
    He saw an animal leaving a muddy trail
    Real dirty face and a curly trail
    He wasn't too small and he wasn't too big
    "Ah, think I'll call it a pig".

    Man gave names to all the animals
    In the beginning, in the beginning
    Man gave names to all the animals
    In the beginning, long time ago.

    Next animal that he did meet
    Had wool on his back and hooves on his feet
    Eating grass on a mountainside so steep
    "Ah, think I'll call it a sheep".

    Man gave names to all the animals
    In the beginning, in the beginning
    Man gave names to all the animals
    In the beginning, long time ago.

    He saw an animal as smooth as glass
    Slithering his way through the grass
    Saw him dissappear by a tree near a lake .....
     
  5. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    lol, did Dylan write revelations too?
     
  6. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    As we all know ,Jesus is the one that had aurthority and teaching ability when he was on the earth ,that is why he was the greatest teacher and the greatest man who ever lived . and he taught his followers well .


    but in the book of Daniel in DANIEL 7;13-14 Jesus was
    GIVEN GREAT AURTHORITY

    but he had to WAIT for that time , That GREAT aurthority did not happen until 1914 , when he recieved his kingship , and straight away he got going with things to sort things out .



    The year when the descendant of King David with the legal right should come and when Jehovah should give the kingship to that one would be at the close of the Gentile Times, or at the end of the "appointed times of the nations."



    Those Gentile Times did not end in the days of Jesus Christ when on earth in the first century of our Common Era.

    No; for Jesus said that Jerusalem must be destroyed a second time and thereafter the Gentile Times must continue on still farther until they are fulfilled.

    That is why Jesus Christ did not seek any kingship in his days on earth. (John 6:14, 15)

    This is why Jehovah did not give to Jesus Christ the Davidic kingship at his sacrificial death, resurrection and ascension to Jehovah’s right hand in heaven.—Acts 1:6, 7; 2:29-37.


    Jerusalem’s second destruction occurred in the year 70 C.E. at the hands of the Roman legions, and Jesus Christ foretold that the Gentile Times were to keep on running for a time after that. (Luke 21:24)


    So, after his ascension to heaven in 33 C.E., Jesus Christ must wait in heaven until those Gentile Times ended.

    Then was God’s appointed time for the Gentile nations to be brought low and for God’s Messianic kingdom of a descendant of King David to be put on high.


    Then was the due time for Jesus Christ to come with his legal right to the kingship and ask Jehovah and for Jehovah to give him the kingship.


    This is what the Hebrew Christians were told, in Hebrews 10:12, 13, concerning Jesus Christ:

    "This man offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually and sat down at the right hand of God, from then on AWAITING until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet." (Psalm 110:1, 2; 2:7-9; Acts 2:34-36)

    Knowing from Daniel’s prophecy (4:16-27) the length of those "appointed times of the [Gentile] nations" enabled Jesus Christ to calculate when they would end, namely, in 1914 C.E.
     
  7. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    No but his lyrics and Song of Solomon ring pretty close together...
     
  8. lunamoth

    lunamoth Episcopalian

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    Forgive my bluntness mee, but that all just looks like cobbled-together gibberish. I could create a case for just about anything by jumping back and forth between snippets of OT and NT.

    The good news of Jesus was not given in secret or in code so that only an elite few would understand. It is so clear and simple actually that we can miss it and often do.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2008
  9. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Uh oh...:eek:
     
  10. sonoman

    sonoman Interfaith Forums

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    I don't know about that. Morton Smith believes Clement of Alexandria had a "Secret Gospel" of Mark's and my attempts to unravel the symbolism in the Gospels referencing Egyptian religious items, e.g. John the Baptist referring in symbolism to the Ankh, the Egyptian cross and its relationship to Jesus' resurrection to eternal life theology, e.g., the story of Lazarus being a reworking of a myth of Osiris, I think we'll eventually find lot's of hidden meanings behind the words in the Gospels with new meanings arising from our modern expanded knowledge base.
     
  11. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant Well-Known Member

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    Now that sounds like gnosticism
     
  12. lunamoth

    lunamoth Episcopalian

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    Perhaps, but do you think you'll be able to convince a dedicated JW, Catholic, or even Episcopalian of it? :D

    Sounds kind of like gnosticism to me. Interesting aside, in the book I just finished reading, "Judas and the Gospel of Jesus," NT Wright makes a point about the similarities between Protestantism and gnosticism. That's bound to stir the pot!

    But, in reference to your post above, what new or additional "Gospel" do you expect to come out of your studies?
     
  13. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Ah, but what about Jesus himself? Did he, or did he not?
     
  14. sonoman

    sonoman Interfaith Forums

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    What Jesus was trying to tell us about "Kingdom of God". I was in the modern gnostic camp along with the likes of Carl Jung for most of my life as a Christian believer because while I did have a spiritual relationship with God, I did not have one with Jesus. God communicated to me via religious insights and synchronicity experiences and God had informed this way all about the reasons why Jesus as the Spirit of Christ was sent into this world but I never was one of these Christians who had a personal relationship with Jesus. Jesus was the human embodiment of the Spirit of Christ but he was still only words about him to me. That all changed last year when Jesus came to me personally but dang! if He didn't continue my heretical beliefs right away with the identification of Himself, as "Father".

    Father Jesus. This is the Father face of God to me now. Father has told me He became the Father when He came back to heaven. On earth He is the Son. In heaven, He is the Father. "I and My Father are One." In John's Gospel, after He is arisen and returns briefly to appear before the disciples at the Sea of Tiberias, He addresses them, "Children, have you any food?"

    Now I am still in the gnostic camp since I do believe in saving Gnosis as I cannot subscribe to using Jesus for vicarious sin atonement as Pauline doctrine teaches the vast majority of Christians, but now my Christian beliefs are solidly in the Johannine camp and within esoteric Gospel interpretation, also within Thomas-type gnostic interpretation, and in Philip too, but decidely outside the classical Gnostic angelic (mumbo-jumbo) syzygy systems, those bizaar lists of angels and attributes that in my opinion doomed classical gnosticism to intellectual repulsion.

    After 28 years of gnosis of God without Jesus, and a year with Him as Guide, I've believe I've been led to the Truth. Oh that I wish I could tell you all what I've learned, especially in the past few months, but if I tell you one of the things which Father showed me, you will pick up stones and throw them at me; a fire will come out of the stones and burn you up so I keep quiet in order to save your skins.;)
     
  15. lunamoth

    lunamoth Episcopalian

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    Thank you for the interesting answer sonoman. If you don't mind me asking, since I just finished this book about the Gospel of Judas, do you see salvation as something in this world, or as escape from this world? Do you agree with the classic gnostic idea that all that is material is bad, and only spiritual is good? How about the evil/foolish demiurge being the Creator? Do you agree with these things either symbolically or literally?
     
  16. sonoman

    sonoman Interfaith Forums

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    Even in my pre-Father Jesus days I was convinced the Old Testament god was not Jesus' Father, His "Abba", His Daddy, but like many Christians uncomfortable with YHWH I had to manufacture a different Father, one that I could actually like, let alone love. No way was that possible for me with Yahweh--too much innocent blood on that boy's head for my liking. For years I held to a composite gnostic Godhead that united Father with Mother but "Jah" was all I could call Father, "Jah" as the Rastafarians revised the name of Yahweh to mean Love Personified.

    Then in 1998, good old God came through, I am directed to Prof. John Gray's Near Eastern Mythologies and lo and behold! There I found Jesus' Daddy. Godamighty was I a happy camper! El, El Elyon, God Most High as the Canaanites knew Him, here was the real Father of Jesus. The Canaanites loved El, and no fear of Him as Hebrews had of Yahweh, Canaanites called El, the "Kindly One", the "Friendly One", can you imagine Old Testament Yahweh as the "Friendly One"? I think not. But El while distant from humans because He ruled Creation throught the lower gods and goddesses, was the One Canaanites turned to for forgiveness of their sins--which El seems to have given freely. No texts showing El condemning any Canaanites to eternal damnation.

    This discovery of El put a whole new light on Genesis which as you probably know, gnostics find Genesis 2, a work of the Demierge, a blind god, a Creator who creates a screwed up mess, an abortion of a world that can only be escaped from through Gnosis of who we really are. Well, I could see after finding El that early Gnostics were in the same moral pickle as I was before, unable to accept the God of Israel as being anything worthy of respect let alone worship. Their solution seems to have been to destroy Creation as anything spiritually meaningful. Kind of harsh solution;) and one only people who are living lives so divorced from what? Greenery? Life? Animals? something gone completely haywire where the material world was really seen as a trap for the soul. And I think the writers of the Gospels were fully into this gnostic headset only still thinking mainline Jewish epic as context with the Name of God changed to protect the innocent.

    Genesis I, this is El in action as the Creator who found Creation and human beings, "good, very good indeed". I love Life and know Creation is so special that I can hardly contain myself. But I will lest I suffer alienation from on High and be recalled for defective light.
     
  17. lunamoth

    lunamoth Episcopalian

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    Thank you for explaining. I too believe God to be only Good, and Jesus to be Perfection. But, the God in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 is the same God, and the same God as the Trinity. The evolution of our understanding of God can be seen as we go through the Old Testament, not necessarily from the books in order starting with Genesis, but as they were written chronologically.
     
  18. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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  19. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    What Makes Christianity Relevant Today?


    For those who are doing what Jesus taught , it would mean they would be NO PART OF THE WORLD
    "They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world."—JOHN 17:16.


    so true christians would stand out as being no part of the world

    On the last night of his life as a perfect human, Jesus uttered a long prayer in the hearing of his disciples.

    In the course of that prayer, he said something that describes the lives of all true Christians.

    Speaking of his followers, he said:

    "I have given your word to them, but the world has hated them, because they are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world. I request you, not to take them out of the world, but to watch over them because of the wicked one. They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world."—John 17:14-16

    Twice, Jesus said that his followers would be no part of the world.


    Moreover, that separateness would lead to tensions—the world would hate them.


    Still, Christians need not be dismayed; Jehovah would watch over them. (Proverbs 18:10; Matthew 24:9, 13)


    In view of Jesus’ words, we may well ask: ‘Why are true Christians no part of the world?

    What does it mean to be no part of the world?

    If Christians are hated by the world, how do they view the world?

    In particular, how do they view the world’s governments?’
    The Scriptural answers to these questions are important because they affect us all.


    .



     
  20. sonoman

    sonoman Interfaith Forums

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    Luna, how do you deal with the contradiction in God's opinion of humanity between Creation 1 and Creation 2? I am surely not the first to notice this discrepancy as it provided fuel for much of the Gnostic rebellion against Yahweh. Ignoring the differences does nothing to make them go away.
     

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