The End of Abraham

Discussion in 'Esoteric' started by sonoman, Sep 24, 2008.

  1. sonoman

    sonoman Interfaith Forums

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    This is God's Final Solution to all the violence throughout the centuries caused by Abrahamic religionists. Hindu gods lost in translation:

    Brahma, the Hindu God of Creation, is Abraham. Sarasvati, the Hindu Goddess of knowledge and wisdom and consort to Brahma, is Sarah, Abraham's wife.


    I first came across the idea that Abraham and Brahma might be connected around 1999 but can't remember exactly where I saw it other than remembering doing an internet search on something and coming up with a site with this information. The site I think also connected Hammarabi to Abraham to Brahma as all variants of the same person. In Hebrew, the names for Brahma and Abraham would be written the same way: BRHM, with the vowels excluded. But Krishna sounds and looks like Christ, so what of the similarity? And I put this information on my mental back burner until debating with Muslims on internet talkboards several years later and again ran across another Abraham-Brahma connection checking out some Hindu Vedic sites countering Islamic doctrines.

    According to Sword of Truth, a Hindu Vedic website opposing Islam, Muhammad in his illiteracy, mistook the Meccan's Arabic Vedic worship of Brahma for honoring of the patriarch, Abraham. The site claimed Muhammad's Islam has all sorts of Arabic Vedic worship connected with it, e.g. the Black Stone left alone of all the idols Muhammad destroyed in the Cabaa because it was part of his family's Shiva worship. The Black Stone is known as a "shivaling" to Hindus. They claimed even Muhammad's name derived from Hindu "Mahadeva" worship. This information did register with me and went into the Achilles Heel catagory for Muhammad's Islam which you can read in the New Islam chapter. But at the time I didn't go any farther than that researching this Hindu Vedic connection to Islam.

    It wasn't until I ran across Gene Matlock's article connecting Abraham and Sara directly to Brahma and Saraisvati. Matlock uses the "Saraisvati" spelling of "Sarasvati" and I've seen his spelling of it posted on Hindu sites without complaint so I guess it can be so spelled. It certainly makes the linguistic connection even closer to Sarah, who was "Sarai" before God changed her name as They did Abraham's--from Abram to Abraham. Gene Matlock's arguments for the Abraham/Sarah connection to Brahma/Saraisvati was utterly convincing to me after I did a Wikipedia search on the history of the Sarasvati River for whom the Goddess Saraisvati is named.

    Once anyone who reads the Wikipedia material on the Hindu god and goddess, Brahma and Sarasvati, with any normal degree of objectivity and then learns about the history of the Sarasvati River and the ancient Brahmin community that moved out of the finally dry Sarasvati river system..well, it's all over. The End Times information destroying the foundational stories of the Abrahamic faiths has arrived.

    Matlock's article contains other sources within it so all this information about the Vedic roots of Abraham has been floating around in the cosmic Library but only now does it seem to be reaching minds that are responding appropriately. I will try to summarize both Matlock's and Wikipedia's information here while specific references are to be found in their articles posted below.


    What's in a name? Hindu Gods and Goddesses lost in translation
    Matlock traces the connection between Abraham and Brahma linguistically and through study of the historical movements of ancient Indians out the Sarasvati river watershed. I could easily see how "Brahma" could be an anagram of "Abram" or "Abraham". Also with the name Saraisvati or Sarasvati being simliar to Sarah and Sarai. But like police wisdom when ferreting out truthful information about a crime, it's in knowledge of the little hidden details that truth from lies is revealed...those little hidden details--such as:

    Knowing that in the Jewish Torah stories when a new god is introduced when a significant birth happens and/or a change of names occurs, e.g. the creation of Adam and Eve.

    Knowing when the Angel of God in the Bush tells Moses that that "Our" name is I AM yet it is the old name of EL that dropped from direct referral to God to be superseded by Yahweh.

    Knowing that Pauline Christianity's heavy hitters each go through a change of names at the advent of the new Christ god, Jesus. Simon becomes Peter, Saul becomes Paul.

    Abram becomes Abraham, the father of many nations while Sarai becomes Sarah, miraculously bearing Isaac in her barren old age. God's are being switched around in these stories.

    Brahma is said also to be the son of the Supreme Being, Brahman. This relations of Son of God to God is the basis of the Messiah's relationship to God in the Abrahamic religions.

    Brahma is the lord of sacrifices.

    Brahma is associated with the sun and saturn. The Sabbath on Saturn's Day is holy to Jews.

    "There are actually two 'Brahmas'. In this aspect, and according to Vedas, both Sun and Saturn are considered Brahmas. However, note that Sun and Saturn are worst enemies. According to Parasara, who explained and expanded the science of Jyotish, Sun is the Brahma of what can be termed "unborn souls." However, since that means that the life-form (born individual, animal, etc.) must die (in order to be unborn), Sun is also known as the Mahesha of the living things. Therefore, Sun gives birth to body-less souls (after killing) and therefore he is the Brahma who gives "Moksha" or "Nirvana" (Buddhism). Saturn on the other hand, seduces unborn souls towards (again) rebirth. Therefore, Saturn is Brahma of those who are born. Brahmins usually do not worship Saturn, because since Saturn is the creator of all life (on our planet - as in born souls), even his wife is created by him (Saraswati), and therefore, it is considered that Brahma indulged in incest (I think you know what I mean). This is the reason why Brahmins avoid worshipping Saturn, and also, worshipping Saturn usually brings misery and tough life."--Hindu blogger Ron

    Discovering that there was an ancient Sarasvati river civilization that gave rise to the earliest Vedic theology with its primary Hindu gods Brahma, Lord of Creation, Vishnu, Sustainer of Life, and Shiva, the Destroyer.
    Learning that this Sarasvati river dried up after some series of cataclysmic events, earthquakes and drought somewhere between 4000 and 2000 BC forcing the Brahmin community or some segment of it out of the region to seek sustainable lands farther west and south.

    Learning that while the god Brahma is still popularly worshiped in India there is only one temple dedicated to this god. There evidently are thousands dedicated to Vishnu and Shiva. Where'd the Brahmin temple people go?
    Learning that Sarasvati is Brahma's consort and she is named after the ancient Sarasvati river that plays a prominent part in Hindu mythology.
    Discovering there were two rivers that in ancient times combined together to form the main tributary of the old Sarasvati river--the Ghaggar-Hakra river. A combined name could easily be "Hagar", the name of the handmaiden of Sarah. This was the clincher for me.

    Discovering that in the Hindu myth, Brahma marries his sister/lover, Goddess Sarasvati and seeing the comparison drawn to the Genesis story where Abram more or less claims in defense of his pimping his wife to the king of Gerar that she is really his sister.
     
  2. sonoman

    sonoman Interfaith Forums

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    Gene Matlock's theories

    I've gotten permission from Gene Matlock to post these excerpts from his articles. Also posted are relevant Wikipedia entries on Brahma and Sarasvati.

    --"In his History of the Jews, the Jewish scholar and theologian Flavius Josephus (37 - 100 A.D.), wrote that the Greek philosopher Aristotle had said: "...These Jews are derived from the Indian philosophers; they are named by the Indians Calani." (Book I:22.)

    Clearchus of Soli wrote, "The Jews descend from the philosophers of India. The philosophers are called in India Calanians and in Syria Jews. The name of their capital is very difficult to pronounce. It is called 'Jerusalem.'"
    "Megasthenes, who was sent to India by Seleucus Nicator, about three hundred years before Christ, and whose accounts from new inquiries are every day acquiring additional credit, says that the Jews 'were an Indian tribe or sect called Kalani...'" (Anacalypsis, by Godfrey Higgins, Vol. I; p. 400.)

    Martin Haug, Ph.D., wrote in The Sacred Language, Writings, and Religions of the Parsis, "The Magi are said to have called their religion Kesh-î-Ibrahim.They traced their religious books to Abraham, who was believed to have brought them from heaven." (p. 16.)

    There are certain striking similarities between the Hindu god Brahma and his consort Saraisvati, and the Jewish Abraham and Sarai, that are more than mere coincidences. Although in all of India there is only one temple dedicated to Brahma, this cult is the third largest Hindu sect.

    In his book Moisés y los Extraterrestres, Mexican author Tomás Doreste states, Voltaire was of the opinion that Abraham descended from some of the numerous Brahman priests who left India to spread their teachings throughout the world; and in support of his thesis he presented the following elements: the similarity of names and the fact that the city of Ur, land of the patriarchs, was near the border of Persia, the road to India, where that Brahman had been born. The name of Brahma was highly respected in India, and his influence spread throughout Persia as far as the lands bathed by the rivers Euphrates and Tigris. The Persians adopted Brahma and made him their own. Later they would say that the God arrived from Bactria, a mountainous region situated midway on the road to India. (pp. 46-47.) Bactria (a region of ancient Afghanistan) was the locality of a prototypical Jewish nation called Juhuda or Jaguda, also called Ur-Jaguda. Ur meant "place or town." Therefore, the bible was correct in stating that Abraham came from "Ur of the Chaldeans." "Chaldean," more correctly Kaul-Deva (Holy Kauls), was not the name of a specific ethnicity but the title of an ancient Hindu Brahmanical priestly caste who lived in what are now Afghanistan, Pakistan, and the Indian state of Kashmir. "The tribe of Ioud or the Brahmin Abraham, was expelled from or left the Maturea of the kingdom of Oude in India and, settling in Goshen, or the house of the Sun or Heliopolis in Egypt, gave it the name of the place which they had left in India, Maturea." (Anacalypsis; Vol. I, p. 405.) "He was of the religion or sect of Persia, and of Melchizedek."(Vol. I, p. 364.) "The Persians also claim Ibrahim, i.e. Abraham, for their founder, as well as the Jews. Thus we see that according to all ancient history the Persians, the Jews, and the Arabians are descendants of Abraham.(p.85) ...We are told that Terah, the father of Abraham, originally came from an Eastern country called Ur, of the Chaldees or Culdees, to dwell in a district called Mesopotamia. Some time after he had dwelt there, Abraham, or Abram, or Brahma, and his wife Sara or Sarai, or Sara-iswati, left their father's family and came into Canaan. The identity of Abraham and Sara with Brahma and Saraiswati was first pointed out by the Jesuit missionaries."(Vol. I; p. 387.)

    --In Hindu mythology, Sarai-Svati is Brahm's sister. The bible gives two stories of Abraham. In this first version, Abraham told Pharaoh that he was lying when he introduced Sarai as his sister. In the second version, he also told the king of Gerar that Sarai was really his sister. However, when the king scolded him for lying, Abraham said that Sarai was in reality both his wife and his sister! "...and yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife." (Genesis 20:12.)

    But the anomalies don't end here. In India, a tributary of the river Saraisvati is Ghaggar. Another tributary of the same river is Hakra. According to Jewish traditions, Hagar was Sarai's maidservant; the Moslems say she was an Egyptian princess. Notice the similarities of Ghaggar, Hakra and Hagar.

    The bible also states that Ishmael, son of Hagar, and his descendants lived in India. "...Ishmael breathed his last and died, and was gathered to his kin... They dwelt from Havilah (India), by Shur, which is close to Egypt, all the way to Asshur." (Genesis 25:17-18.) It is an interesting fact that the names of Isaac and Ishmael are derive from Sanskrit: (Hebrew) Ishaak = (Sanskrit) Ishakhu = "Friend of Shiva." (Hebrew) Ishmael = (Sanskrit) Ish-Mahal = "Great Shiva."

    About 1900 BC, the cult of Brahm was carried to the Middle and Near East by several different Indian groups after a severe rainfall and earthquake tore Northern India apart, even changing the courses of the Indus and Saraisvati rivers. The classical geographer Strabo tells us just how nearly complete the abandonment of Northwestern India was. "Aristobolus says that when he was sent upon a certain mission in India, he saw a country of more than a thousand cities, together with villages, that had been deserted because the Indus had abandoned its proper bed." (Strabo's Geography, XV.I.19.)

    "The drying up of the Sarasvati around 1900 BCE, which led to a major relocation of the population centered around in the Sindhu and the Sarasvati valleys, could have been the event that caused a migration westward from India. It is soon after this time that the Indic element begins to appear all over West Asia, Egypt, and Greece."
    (Indic Ideas in the Graeco-Roman World, by Subhash Kak, taken from IndiaStar online literary magazine; p.14)

    --Indian historian Kuttikhat Purushothama Chon believes that Abraham was driven out of India. He states that the Aryans, unable to defeat the Asuras (The mercantile caste that once ruled in the Indus Valley or Harappans) spent so many years fighting covertly against the Asuras, such as destroying their huge system of irrigation lakes, causing destructive flooding, that Abraham and his kindred just gave up and marched to West Asia. (See Remedy the Frauds in Hinduism.) Therefore, besides being driven out of Northern India by floods, the Aryans also forced Indian merchants, artisans, and educated classes to flee to West Asia.

    In India, the Hittites were also known as Cedis or Chedis (pronounced Hatti or Khetti). Indian historians classify them as one of the oldest castes of the Yadavas. "The Cedis formed one of the most ancient tribes among the Ksatriyas (the aristocratic class made up of Hittites and Kassites) in early Vedic times. As early as the period of the Rgveda the Cedi kings had acquired great reknown... they are one of the leading powers in northern India in the great epic." (Yadavas Through the Ages, p. 90.) Ram or Rama also belonged to the Yadava clan. If our Abraham, Brahm, and Ram are the one and the same person, Abraham went to Jerusalem to be with his own people!

    --Ram's congregations segregated themselves in their own communities, called Ayodhya, which in Sanskrit means "The Unconquerable." The Sanskrit word for "fighter" is Yuddha or Yudh. Abraham and his group belonged to the Ayodhya (Yehudiya, Judea) congregation who remained aloof from non-believers and Amalekites (Aryans?).

    *-from The Dictionary of the Kashmiri Language by George A. Grierson, pg. 865

    Sadakh – A magician; one possessed of supernational powers; esp. of powers gained by worshipping a deity or uttering charms. Sudakshen – Name of a son of a king of Kashi or Kasi. In Sanskrit, it is Sadaksina or Sudaksina Melik or Malik is a North Indian and Kashmiri term for King; Lord; Master. He was a teacher of Brahma, a son of Krishna and father of Maheshvar.

    why doesn't History mention them?

    The exodus of refugees out of ancient India did not occur all at once but over a period of one or more thousand years. If all these refugee ruling peoples were exclusively of Indian heritage, why doesn't History mention them? Indeed they are mentioned as Kassites, Hittites, Syrians, Assyrians, Hurrians, Arameans, Hyksos, Mittanians, Amalekites, Aethiops (Atha-Yop), Phoenicians, Chaldeans, and many others. But we have been wrongly taught to regard them as ethnicities indigenous to Western Asia. Our history books also call them "Indo-Europeans," causing us to wonder where they were really from. "The people of India came to realize their social identity in terms of Varna and Jati (societal functions or caste); not in terms of races and tribes." (Foundations of Indian Culture; p. 8.)
    Here's an example of how the ancient Indians identified people: The leaders were called Khassis (Kassites), Kushi (Ku****es), Cossacks (Russian military caste) Caesars (Roman ruling caste), Hattiya (Hittites), Cuthites (a dialectical form of Hittite), Hurrite (another dialectical form of Hittite), Cathay (Chinese leaders), Kasheetl/Kashikeh among the Aztecs, Kashikhel/Kisheh by the Mayans, and Keshuah/Kush by the Incas. The Assyrians (in English), Asirios (in Spanish), Asuras or Ashuras (India), Ashuriya, Asuriya (Sumer and Babylonia), Asir (Arabia), Ahura (Persia), Suré in Central Mexico, etc., were people who worshipped Surya (the Sun).
    Naturally, in areas where this religion prevailed, they were known as "Assyrians," no matter what the real names of their respective kingdoms were.

    Another problem that western scholars have in identifying the Indo-Europeans as Indians is that India was not then and never was a nation. Furthermore, it is not "India." It is Bharata, and even Bharata is not a nation. Bharata is a collection of nations, just as Europe is a collection of nations, presently held together by the real or perceived threat of Moslem expansionism. Indian scholars have told me that when and if this expansionism ever disappears, the "Bharata Union" will again splinter into many smaller nations.

    "The Arabian historians contend that Brahma and Abraham, their ancestor, are the same person. The Persians generally called Abraham Ibrahim Zeradust. Cyrus considered the religion of the Jews the same as his own. The Hindoos must have come from Abraham, or the Israelites from Brahma..." (Anacalypsis; Vol. I, p. 396.)

    --Gene D. Matlock, B.A, M.A.
     
  3. sonoman

    sonoman Interfaith Forums

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    From Wikipedia

    Brahma
    --Brahma (Sanskrit masculine brahman-, nominative brahma ???????, personification of the neuter brahman-) is the Hindu god (deva) of creation and one of the Trimurti, the others being Vishnu and Shiva. He is not to be confused with the Supreme Cosmic Spirit in Hindu Vedanta philosophy known as Brahman. Also, in Sanskrit Grammer, Brahman is Nominative Singular of generic word Brahman, as Aatma is Nominative Singular for Aatman. Brahaman and Aatman are same in Vedanta Philosphy, the Para-Aatma (Supersoul) and Jeeva Aatma (Individual Soul) are Brahman. His consort is Saraswati, the goddess of learning. Brahma is often identified with Prajapati, a Vedic deity.


    --Appearance
    Brahma is traditionally depicted with four heads and four faces and four arms. With each head he continually recites one of the four Vedas. He is often depicted with a white beard (especially in North India), indicating the near eternal nature of his existence. He is shown as having four arms, with none holding a weapon, unlike most other Hindu Gods. One of his hands is shown holding a scepter in the form of a spoon, which is associated with the pouring of holy ghee or oil into a sacrificial pyre - indicating the fact that Brahma is the lord of sacrifices.


    --Creation
    According to the Puranas, Brahma is self-born (without mother) in the lotus flower which grew from the navel of Vishnu at the beginning of the universe. This explains his name Nabhija (born from the navel). Another legend says that Brahma was born in water. In this he deposited a seed that later became the golden egg. From this golden egg, Brahma the creator was born, as Hiranyagarbha. The remaining materials of this golden egg expanded into the Brahm-anda or Universe. Being born in water, Brahma is also called Kanja (born in water). Brahma is said also to be the son of the Supreme Being, Brahman and the female energy known as Prakrti or Maya.


    --Lack of Brahma worship in India
    India today has but three temples dedicated to Brahmdev alone as opposed to the thousands of temples dedicated to the other deities in the Trimurti: Shiva and Vishnu. The more famous one being at Pushkar in Rajasthan state.
    There are various stories in Hindu mythology that talks of the curse that has prevented Brahma from being worshipped on Earth.
    --According to Brahma Purana and Hindu cosmology, Brahma is the creator but not necessarily regarded as God in Hinduism. He is mostly regarded as a creation of God / Brahman. The lifespan of Brahma is 100 Brahma years or 311 trillion human years. At the end of his lifespan, there is a gap of 100 Brahma years after which another Brahma or creator begins anew and the process is repeated forever. For this reason, Brahma might be considered only as a creator who is the executor of the order from the Supreme being - The Brahman.


    --Temples
    Although Brahma is prayed to in almost all Hindu religious rites, there are very few temples dedicated to him in India, the more prominent of which is at Pushkar, close to Ajmer. Once a year, on the full moon night of the Hindu lunar month of Kartika (October - November), a religious festival is held in Brahma's honour. Thousands of pilgrims come to bathe in the holy lake adjacent to the temple.


    Sarasvati River
    --The Sarasvati River (Sanskrit: sárasvati nadi) is one of the chief Rigvedic rivers mentioned in ancient Hindu texts. The Nadistuti hymn in the Rigveda (10.75) mentions the Sarasvati between the Yamuna in the east and the Sutlej in the west, and later Vedic texts like Tandya and Jaiminiya Brahmanas as well as the Mahabharata mention that the Sarasvati dried up in a desert. The goddess Sarasvati was originally a personification of this river, but later developed an independent identity and meaning.
    Most scholars agree that at least some of the references to the Sarasvati in the Rigveda refer to the Ghaggar-Hakra River, while the Helmand is often quoted as the locus of the early Rigvedic river. Whether such a transfer of the name has taken place, either from the Helmand to the Ghaggar-Hakra, or conversely from the Ghaggar-Hakra to the Helmand, is a matter of dispute.
    There is also a small present-day Sarasvati River (Sarsuti) that joins the Ghaggar river.


    Brahmanas
    --The first reference to a drying up of the Sarasvati is from the Brahmanas, texts that are composed in Vedic Sanskrit, but dating to a later date than the Veda Samhitas. The Jaiminiya Brahmana (2.297) speaks of the 'diving under (upamajjana) of the Sarasvati', and the Tandya Brahmana calls this the 'disppearance' (vinasana). The same text (25.10.11-16) records that the Sarasvati is 'so to say meandering' (kubjimati) as it could not sustain heaven which it had propped up. The distance between the Plaksa Prasravana (place of appearance/source of the river)[7] and the Vinasana (place of disappearance of the river) is said to be 44 asvina (between several hundred and 1600 miles) (Tandya Br. 25.10.16; cf. Av. 6.131.3; Pancavimsa Br.[8]). [9][10]
    In the Shatapatha Brahmana (1.4.1.10 sqq) there is a description of the god Agni burning out rivers, which may be a reference to the drying up of rivers.

    Ghaggar-Hakra River
    --Both 19th and 20th century fieldwork (Marc Aurel Stein and recent satellite imagery suggest that the Ghaggar-Hakra river in the undetermined past had the Sutlej and the Yamuna as its tributaries. Geological changes diverted the Sutlej towards the Indus and the Yamuna towards the Ganga, and the formerly great river (the Rann of Kutch is likely the remains of its delta) did not have enough water to reach the sea anymore and dried up in the Thar desert. This change is estimated by geologists to have occurred between 5000 and 3000 BC,[18] that is, before the Mature Harappan period. It is sometimes proposed that the Sarasvati of the early Rigveda corresponds to the Ghaggar-Hakra before these changes took place (the "Old Ghaggar"), and the late Vedic end Epic Sarasvati disappearing in the desert to the Ghaggar-Hakra following the diversion of Sutlej and Yamuna, but the 4th millennium date of the event far predates even high estimates of the age of the Rigveda.


    The identification of the Vedic Sarasvati River with the Ghaggar-Hakra River was already accepted by Christian Lassen[19] and Max Müller[20] and Marc Aurel Stein. However, an alternate view has located the early Sarasvati River in Afghanistan. The identity of the dried-up Ghaggar-Hakra with the late Vedic and post-Vedic Sarasvati is widely accepted. The identification of the early Rigvedic Sarasvati with the Old Ghaggar is another matter, and the subject of dispute. Kochhar (1999) lists a number of reasons conflicting with the identification:

    Saraswati, goddess of knowledge
    Consort: Brahma
    Mount: swan, peacock
    --In Hinduism, Saraswati (Sanskrit sarasvati) is one of the goddesses, the other two being Lakshmi and Durga, that form the female counterpart of the Trimurti. Saraswati has been regarded as a river goddess and in recent times a goddess of knowledge, music and the arts. She is the consort of Brahma, the Hindu god of creation.



    Saraswati as a river
    --The Rigvedic hymns dedicated to Saraswati mention her as a mighty river with creative, purifying, and nourishing properties. The best theory regarding the Vedic Sarasvati River states that it was formed by the present headwaters of the Yamuna River. In ancient times, after they had left the Himalayan foothills, the waters of the Yamuna turned west instead of east at Paonta Saheb. Next, the river flowed southwest across the Punjab and Haryana regions along the course of the modern Ghaggar-Hakra River in a pathway roughly parallel to the smaller Indus River to its west. The Sutlej flowed further east than it does today, and joined the Sarasvati somewhere near Bahawalpur. Eventually, the wide river emptied into the Rann of Kutch, which at the time was a more integral part of the Arabian Sea.

    Along the course of the Sarasvati, the Harappan Civilization developed. The earliest known examples of writing in India have been found in the ruined cities that line the now dry riverbed of the ancient waterway. Some have postulated that the goddess Saraswati gained her role as personified communication and the giver of knowledge due to the role of the Sarasvati River in the development of written language in ancient India.
    Between 2000 B.C. and 1700 B.C., seismic activity caused the waters of the river's two main sources to change course. The Sutlej moved course westward and became a tributary of the Indus River. The Yamuna moved course eastward and became a tributary of the Ganges. The tremendous loss of water which resulted from these movements caused the once mighty river to become sluggish and dry up in the Thar Desert without ever reaching the sea. Without any water for irrigation or transportation, the dense population of the river basin soon shifted east with the waters of the Yamuna to the Ganges River valley. Late Vedic texts record the river as disappearing at Vinasana (literally, "the disappearing"), and as joining both the Yamuna and Ganges as an invisible river. Some claim that the sanctity of the modern Ganges is directly related to its assumption of the holy, life-giving waters of the ancient Sarasvati.

    Recently, archaeologists using satellite images have been able to trace the course of the river. A small channel of water flows near Kurukshetra. A nearby signboard denoting the former path of the once great Sarasvati River can be seen along the main highway (GT road).

    Origins and context in Hinduism
    --In the Rig-Veda (6,61,7), Saraswati is credited, in association with Indra, with killing the serpentine being Vritraasura, a demon which hoarded all of the earth's water and so represents drought, darkness, and chaos. She is often seen as equivalent to other Vedic goddesses such as Vak, Savitri, and Gayatri. Saraswati represents intelligence, consciousness, cosmic knowledge, creativity, education, enlightenment, music, the arts, and power. She is not only worshipped for secular knowledge, but for the true divine knowledge essential to achieve moksha. She is also referred to as Shonapunya, a Sanskrit word meaning ‘one purified of blood’.
    --In some Puranas (like Skanda Purana) she is associated with Shiva and in some Tantras with Ganesha.


    According to Brahma Vaivarta Purana 2.6.13-95 Vishnu has three wives, who constantly quarrel with each other, so that eventually, he keeps only Lakshmi, giving Ganga to Shiva and Saraswati to Brahma. Saraswati Stuthi states that she is the only Goddess to be revered by all the three great gods of Hinduism, Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva as well as the asuras (demons), the gandharvas (the divine musicians), and the nagas (the divine serpents).

    --The original (spiritual) forms of devas including Saraswati are present in the spiritual world:


    --As a river/water goddess, Saraswati symbolizes fertility and prosperity. She is associated with purity and creativity, especially in the context of communication, such as in literary and verbal skills. In the post-Vedic age, She began to lose her status as a river goddess and became increasingly associated with literature, arts, music, etc. Her name literally means "the one who flows", which apparently was applied to thoughts, words, or the flow of a river (in Sanskrit: "dhaara-pravaah").

     
  4. Dream

    Dream Well-Known Member

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    I see the name similarities, however I'm cautious. Do we put the Abrahamic forum into the Hindu one, or do we put the Hindu one into the Abrahamic? It is very inconvenient that I cannot read Sanskrit.

    I remember you mentioning the similarity of Abraham to the name 'Hammurabi' as well. Hammurabi was a very famous king in Babylon (near the Tigris and Euphrates rivers) whose stelle has been found and can be read, and Wikip. says he ruled 1796 BC – 1750 BCE. Your information says the Old Ghaggar and possibly the Sarasvati rivers dried up or were lost by 4000 BCE, and you suggest Abraham and Hammurabi are the same person and a copy-cat of the Brahman. Is that the general idea?
     
  5. sonoman

    sonoman Interfaith Forums

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    I used to think there was some connection between "Hammurabi" and "Abraham" due to the consonant spelling similarities but if the Abe is Brahma theory is correct then Hammurabi would be a mythical man. Do mythical men leave steles? There has been much speculation about the Code of Hammurabi and the Mosaic Code but this Hindu roots for Abraham is from an older layer of history. I am seeing a Brahmin movement from northern India through Iran to Iraq, Assyria, Syria, all the way down south to Egypt via the Surya sun-god connection showing up in Osiris.

    I will be posting more on the Brahmin/Jewish connections but coupled with the Brahmin ideology which when stripped of polytheistic gods and focused on Atman/Brahman exclusively and the earthly Brahmins as the priests of God could well become over time and distance and submersion into another pagan pantheon system, the Babylonian/Canaanite one, evolve into Judaism.
     
  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    Namaste Sonoman, are you Steve Lewis, or do you hold rights to his work, or is he cutting and pasting from you, or both of you copying this other guy?

    Steve Lewis: June 2007
     
  7. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    Snap......
     
  8. Dream

    Dream Well-Known Member

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    Celebrity!!! Whoo hoo!!!

    I'm getting a signature. Hey, it just goes to show who really has the best blog. Must be us.
     
  9. Ahanu

    Ahanu Well-Known Member

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    All of this talk about Persia makes me think that maybe Abraham is a meme for Zoroaster too!
     
  10. sonoman

    sonoman Interfaith Forums

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    That's right. Now that I'm famous I await to see if Brian is Christian or not. He's banned me before because I am one of those AWFUL people who post their heretical religious visions on other people's forums thus violating the usual rules for electronically stoning to death any prophet wannabes that happen along.

    It makes it hard for those of us chosen to bring God's divine news to the world, let me tell ya..I've been careful here to not let loose with all 18 barrels of my Gospel because I do want to be able to post my opinions which I cannot do when Stephen gets electronically stoned off the forum.

    Oh, the foxes have their dens, and the birds their nests, but the sonoman has nowhere to lay his big fat head..

    You all up for the Cosmic Truth now? Maybe I better post it while I'm still alive here..
     
  11. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant Well-Known Member

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    I think Brians point is that this forum is not the place to promote your personal agenda not only because its not fair to the posters that arent interested in your ideas but hes the one that put out the 8 grand and he doesnt have to allow you free advertising. Do you think you are the only one thats tried to pull that? Not even. But that is at Brians discretion.
     
  12. sonoman

    sonoman Interfaith Forums

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    Don't you worry, Faithful, your Christianity is safe here. Gnostic Christianity has rarely been safe in Pauline Christian dominated societies so forum persecution of Gnostics who are encouraged to formulate their own personal spiritual pathways based on a personal, authentic relationship with God and not on hand-me-down traditions of men, is nothing new to us.
     
  13. sonoman

    sonoman Interfaith Forums

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    You can always tell those who truly walk the Christian walk for they will be ones being persecuted for telling the truth.
     
  14. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    You've got your forum. You've got your website. If you've got info all that valuable folks should be coming to you in droves, G!d will it.

    So why is it you insist on riding on the coat tails and efforts of others. Why does your information not elicit its own following?
     
  15. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Admin

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    My own religious/spiritual beliefs are irrelevant - all I ask for of all members here is civility. :)

    I'm really sorry if your previous banning was seen as personal religious validation - to me it was simply because you were trying to use the forums as your personal soapbox.

    If you get thrown out of a restaurant for shouting at the other patrons, you're thrown out for your behaviour, not beliefs. Same here.

    It's worth noting this is a community - ie, a social gathering. If you're intention is to join in with the conversations then you're welcome to hang around - the previous banned list was deleted a few weeks ago.

    However, if your sole remit is to try and use the community to self-promote, then that is best left on your website.

    You'll probably find there are actually other Gnostic Christians here - heck, there's even a board set up for discussions on Gnosticism here:
    Esoteric - Interfaith forums

    There is a difference between being righteous, and being obnoxious, but both may feel persecuted. I'm happy to see you try the former here. :)

    In the meantime, I'll move this thread to the Esoteric board where it's more likely to reach a more sympathetic readership.
     
  16. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    What I want to know is where are the Smurfs in this story?


    tao
     
  17. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    They've been prosecuted by the Gnostics.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2008
  18. Dream

    Dream Well-Known Member

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    Can't you read Smurfskrit?
     
  19. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Isn't the Veda that tells about the blue skinned Vishnu written in smurfskrit?
     
  20. Dream

    Dream Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, but smurfskrit's easy to learn. 80% of the language is derived from the word 'smurf' and you can guess the rest.
     

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