Church and State

Look, you say red neck but that's just a stereotype. Bo and Luke Duke weren't rednecks, they were qausi hillbillies, but not mountain hillbillies. Subtle differences, see?

Chris
 
No, there is no place in politics for faith.

Therefore, you believe that only atheists should be allowed in government, since nobody except someone who is compartmentalized to the point of mental illness could completely divorce his spiritual life from his work life. Faith will inform the basic sense of how life *ought* to be, and it is this "ought" that underlies all legislation. Legislate against what ought not be and legislate in favor of what ought to be.

It reminds me of Russia, when they "gulag-ed" intellectuals who spoke out about the party.

Quit the hyperbolic propagandizing. It only makes you look like a paranoid maniac. Give me a list of the intellectuals in the USA who have been shipped off to a gulag.

I lay down the challenge--back up your accusation, withdraw it, or simply be exposed as someone who lies to propagate his own political agenda.
 
As a Baha'i let me indicate that we observe nonpartisanship..so we register independent or non-partisan to vote in elections..

No Baha'is run for partisan offices and Baha'is are not supposed to be involved in partisan movements say protests or such.

Baha'is can serve though on advisory panels that are clearly non-partisan and some Baha'is have served in judgeships, also non-partisan.

It would be considered very inappropriate for a Baha'i to say stand up and advocate say voting for a particular candidate at a Baha'i event.

- Art
It is inappropriate for a bahai to state their political belief but appropriate for the Bahai Leadership to insist on bipartisanship?
 
no, I don't, therefore, think that "only atheists should be allowed in government".. nor do I think it is mental illness to "compartmentalise" personal beliefs and opinions when attempting to minister or govern others who may not share those beliefs... in fact, I think this is what is expected of you, if you're going to place yourself in such a lofty position. Doctors, nurses, policemen, government officials, teachers, are all supposed to have good ethics, not compromise ppl's human rights, to do what the people want, not what they themselves want.

If you are in the BNP, you cannot be a policeman. These things conflict, you see. If you're in the BNP you're not likely to treat non-whites well. So they won't let you in.

As a politician, you are elected to serve your consituents, not just the people you like and agree with.

You are a jehovah's witness, let's pretend. You are dying, and I can save you, in my hospital, but you refuse treatment. You want God to save you? I personally think this is a daft idea, but I cannot force you. It is your choice. I have to stand and watch you die. I really think it's a bad idea, and tell you you're going to die, but I can't section you. You're not mentally ill. I can't force you, as I would be assaulting you. I have to allow you to believe what you like. And I have to watch you die.

As a politician, I might not like Jehovah's witnesses, and I might think what they do is a sin, but I cannot legislate against them being able to make their own choice about something like that.

To make everyone do and think what I believe is the way is totalitarianism.

If 20 Jehovah's witness constituents came to me and spoke of barbaric treatment in hospitals it would be my duty to put my own beliefs aside and ensure their human rights were not contavened, no matter how illogical I found their belief.

Politicians in a democracy are there to assist the people- they are agents of the the people... this means occasionally you will have to put your own opinions aside for the sake of the common good, otherwise you will push your own agendas at the expense of others, to the detriment of other people, and their choices...

Faith does not inform the basic sense of how life ought to be- a person can be humanistic and philanthropic and use his life to benefit others for the common good, for the sake of humanity, without faith ever entering the equation, and without stoking his own ego.

I never said intellectuals in the USA have been shipped off to a gulag...

Yanks don't have gulags- they have... guantanamo... lol...

regardless, the dangers in allowing state to be informed by church are numerous- it's okay for evangelicals to enter european parliament in droves to influence western economic policies yet it is not okay for muslims to want sharia...

that's not hyperbole, that's... hypocrisy...
 
The only hope for kids is to have parents with the money and inner awareness to provide a private education for their children. I have to pass along this classic bit of educational stupidity that openly discriminates between religious and political issues holding them to different standards,

First some teacher's aide catches hell for having the audacity to wear a necklace with a cross on it.

Suspended teacher's aide sues employer over wearing cross on necklace

The problem with not enforcing the ban, he said, is that children see the symbol and ask questions about it. That's fine for most people in a case involving a cross in a predominantly Christian community, Coad said. But what if someone wears a symbol that offends Christians, such as a pendant related to witchcraft.

How horrible. budding vampires would shudder at the cross interfering with their education.

Now of course the height of hypocrisy and stupidity presents itself. It is actually so bad it is good which is why I have to pass it on to you dear reader.

NYC teachers sue to wear political buttons in school - USATODAY.com

Apparently a bunch of super idiots got together concluding that wearing political buttons are OK. Now remember that the cross is offensive.

NYC teachers sue to wear political buttons in school - USATODAY.com

NEW YORK — The teachers' union for the nation's largest public school system accused the city on Friday of banning political campaign buttons and sued to reverse the policy, declaring that free speech rights were violated.
United Federation of Teachers President Randi Weingarten announced at a news conference that a lawsuit had been filed in U.S. District Court in Manhattan to challenge the enforcement of the policy.
"We couldn't believe it," said Weingarten, who wore a Barack Obama lapel button. The American Federation of Teachers, including its UFT delegates, voted over the summer to endorse Obama's presidential candidacy.

Weingarten said schools Chancellor Joel Klein urged principals more than two weeks ago to enforce a Department of Education policy requiring complete political neutrality.
City lawyer Paul Marks said officials were still evaluating the lawsuit.

Ya gotta luv it.:D These damn fools with a straight face are against some teacher's aide wearing a cross as offensive but if some kid finds an Obama button offensive, who cares. Once educated he will support Obama. It's over gang. The dingbats have won and its all going into the gutter. It's just a shame that kids will psychologically die slowly due to this lunacy.

Separation of church and state? How about a separation between sanity and lunacy.
 
The only hope for kids is to have parents with the money and inner awareness to provide a private education for their children.
Namaste Nick,

Afraid I disagree. I think the big issue with this country is expecting our schools to educate our children. I expect the teachers to provide some information, but I follow all of it, or much of it. We discuss what they are learning and my viewpoints on it. In many cases I'm amazed with the difference for the positive in education in the past 30 years.

I think the biggest problem with our kids education is not the schools but the parents. Collectively we are not staying involved enough to insure they get all they can out of school. I've got a pair of sophmore's that have been doing quite well and learning a lot...in public school.
 
Namaste Nick,

Afraid I disagree. I think the big issue with this country is expecting our schools to educate our children. I expect the teachers to provide some information, but I follow all of it, or much of it. We discuss what they are learning and my viewpoints on it. In many cases I'm amazed with the difference for the positive in education in the past 30 years.

I think the biggest problem with our kids education is not the schools but the parents. Collectively we are not staying involved enough to insure they get all they can out of school. I've got a pair of sophmore's that have been doing quite well and learning a lot...in public school.

Hi Will

You are bringing up a different issue which is the parents role in education. I am referring to the influence of the controlling apparatus which is agenda driven. This means that the emphasis is on WHAT to know rather than HOW to know. It is this emphasis that accepts obvious hypocrisy described above as normal.

I was laughing when Obama said with a straight face that Ayers was a teacher of English and they had talks on education. The word "education" has a positive connotation with most so people think it is just wonderful. They don't understand how education becomes a tool of indoctrination for the young. No one cares about these things which is why the indoctrination videos I posted don't resonate. We don't see child indoctrination as the horror it is. Read what the intent of indoctrination is:

American Thinker: Bill Ayers and the Subversion of Education

[FONT=times new roman,times]
[FONT=times new roman,times]As Ayers wrote later, he took fire from Greene's lectures on how the "oppressive hegemony" of the capitalist social order "reproduces" itself through the traditional practice of public schooling-critical pedagogy's fancy way of saying that the evil corporations exercise thought control through the schools.[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]Greene told future teachers that they could help change this bleak landscape by developing a "transformative" vision of social justice and democracy in their classrooms. Her vision, though, was a far cry from the democratic optimism of the Founding Fathers, Abraham Lincoln, and Martin Luther King Jr., which most parents would endorse. Instead, critical pedagogy theorists nurse a rancorous view of an America in which it is always two minutes to midnight and a knock on the door by the thought police is imminent. The education professors feel themselves anointed to use the nation's K-12 classrooms to resist this oppressive system. Thus Maxine Greene urged teachers not to mince words with children about the evils of the existing social order. They should portray "homelessness as a consequence of the private dealings of landlords, an arms buildup as a consequence of corporate decisions, racial exclusion as a consequence of a private property-holder's choice." In other words, they should turn the little ones into young socialists and critical theorists.[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman,times]All music to Bill Ayers's ears. The ex-Weatherman glimpsed a new radical vocation. He dreamed of bringing the revolution from the streets to the schools. And that's exactly what he has managed to do.[/FONT]
[/FONT]

Agenda driven education is precisely why wearing a cross on a necklace is banned but wearing political buttons is approved. The buttons are part of the agenda while the essential non corrupt meanings of the cross or the constitution represent that which is free of agendas.

Education is not static. Of course there are areas where public education is not agenda driven However I see its growing influence and know that people easily accept this form of child abuse. It is politically correct to do so. I am suggesting that when such blatant hypocrisy that condemns a cross on a necklace but accepts political influence on the young is seen as normal and acceptable to most as it appears now, the essential value of education which is learning how to know, must diminish. The healthy balance between church and state that allows for the continuance of a free society must diminish also.

When I read such ignorance, I don't see how there is any hope and what we know of as a free society must perish in accordance with growing conditioned ignorance.

I have a chess playing type mind. I look at this situation as a position over the board and look for the move that could save a lost position. I don't see it. The only hope is for a minority that understands what it means to give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's. But these are few and far between. Yet it is within this minority where hope resides. For the rest IMO, all goes down into the sea as did those on the Titanic but this time on the good ship "Platitudes" which has a very large seating capacity.
 
Ya gotta luv it.:D These damn fools with a straight face are against some teacher's aide wearing a cross as offensive but if some kid finds an Obama button offensive, who cares. Once educated he will support Obama.

This is easy to explain. The cross is a symbol of a religion that competes with the religion espoused by the groups running public schools. Obama, on the other hand, is a major cleric of that particular religion.

Conservatives and liberals have two different but intertwined traits when it comes to religion. Conservatives make their religion into their politics. Liberals make their politics into their religion.
 
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