Polygamy and the Abrogation of Monasteries

[The Dude]

I find it odd that even though polygamy is enjoined by Islam monastic life is forbidden.

If you do the math correctly you're left with a bunch of guys without much to do or live for. This could very well be a factor contributing to Islam's propensity for generating suicide bombers.

What did Muhammud expect all these "excess" guys to do with their lives anyway?

 

[Tao_Equus]

I find it odd that even though polygamy is enjoined by Islam monastic life is forbidden.

If you do the math correctly you're left with a bunch of guys without much to do or live for. This could very well be a factor contributing to Islam's propensity for generating suicide bombers.

What did Muhammud expect all these "excess" guys to do with their lives anyway?

Murder your neighbour, rape his wife. Muhammad thought of everything! Though to be fair Muhammad even though he exemplified that, he did not invent that, it was standard practice at the time.

tao

 

[c0de]

@ The Dude + Tao

I find it odd that even though polygamy is enjoined by Islam monastic life is forbidden.

If you do the math correctly you're left with a bunch of guys without much to do or live for. This could very well be a factor contributing to Islam's propensity for generating suicide bombers.

What did Muhammud expect all these "excess" guys to do with their lives anyway?

Hello again Dude,

If you look at the demographics of Arabian society 1400 years ago you will very quickly realize why polygamy is allowed. In tribal societies, polygamy is a necessity because the ratio of females is higher then males. This is chiefly because of tribal warfare in which many young men are killed.

Also, polygamy is not practiced by 99% of the Muslims today for this very reason. It has no functional purpose in today's society. And this is why it was allowed, for functionality.



Tao

Murder your neighbour, rape his wife. Muhammad thought of everything! Though to be fair Muhammad even though he exemplified that, he did not invent that, it was standard practice at the time.

Please provide your references.

I found an interesting quote by the way:

Thomas Carlyle in 'Heroes and Hero Worship and the Heroic in History,' 1840

"The lies which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man (Muhammad) are disgraceful to ourselves only."

 

[Tao_Equus]

If you look at the demographics of Arabian society 1400 years ago you will very quickly realize why polygamy is allowed. In tribal societies, polygamy is a necessity because the ratio of females is higher then males. This is chiefly because of tribal warfare in which many young men are killed.

Exactly what I said.

Please provide your references.

I have done but you have a typically muslim selectivity when it comes to accepting it. I do not engage in exercises in futility. When you accept that Islam is not all sweetness and light I might be willing to start humouring you.

Thomas Carlyle in 'Heroes and Hero Worship and the Heroic in History,' 1840

"The lies which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man (Muhammad) are disgraceful to ourselves only."

lol, again I think you read and quote but do not understand this can be a criticism. It is a perfect example of your selectivity of rendering.

tao

 

[farhan]

I find it odd that even though polygamy is enjoined by Islam monastic life is forbidden.

If you do the math correctly you're left with a bunch of guys without much to do or live for. This could very well be a factor contributing to Islam's propensity for generating suicide bombers.

What did Muhammud expect all these "excess" guys to do with their lives anyway?

Polygamy isnt enjoined, it hasent even been recommended. Infact it has been restricted to 4. Otherwise you can have infinite sexual partners, a thing that is usual in the west, just like pre-islamic arabia.

Monasic life isnt necessarily forbidden. Cutting off all ties from the world is. Because it is a waste of pious people. So if your definition of monasticism includes never touching a woman all your life, this "excess" is forbidden. A man can be very pious (& balanced) with a wife. Not only that, he will also transfer this piety to the next generation.

If you do your math, you will realise that this system will cause a limit to infinite lust, while at the same time increase the piety percentage of the society. If you remove both, you will have wild orgies in the society, while the pious people would run for the mountains.

Suicide bombers blow themselves up because they dont have stealth jets or MIRVs . Give them that, & you wont see any suicide bombers around.

 

[Tao_Equus]

Suicide bombers blow themselves up because they dont have stealth jets or MIRVs . Give them that, & you wont see any suicide bombers around.

The vast majority of suicide bombers attack other muslims that also have no access to stealth bombers. Usually they actually target innocents going about their daily business. And then the mosques proudly give their blessing and send them off to their 72 virgins. So encouraging the next generation of madness.

I am glad you raised the point however. I have known for a long time that despite your devious apologetic your sympathy is with the killers. Here you reveal it for all to see.

tao

 

[seattlegal]

Monasic life isnt necessarily forbidden. Cutting off all ties from the world is. Because it is a waste of pious people. So if your definition of monasticism includes never touching a woman all your life, this "excess" is forbidden. A man can be very pious (& balanced) with a wife. Not only that, he will also transfer this piety to the next generation.

So choosing not to get married is forbidden?

 

[farhan]

The vast majority of suicide bombers attack other muslims that also have no access to stealth bombers. Usually they actually target innocents going about their daily business. And then the mosques proudly give their blessing and send them off to their 72 virgins.

Give me some evidence if you have of who is killing who. Recently a bunch of so called Taliban were captured in Pakistan. On "close examination" it was revealed that they were uncircumcised. They also confessed that RAW has invested half a billion rupees to promote "Sharia movements" in Pakistan.

That 72 number isnt restricted to martyrs, thats for all muslims. Do your homework.

I am glad you raised the point however. I have known for a long time that despite your devious apologetic your sympathy is with the killers. Here you reveal it for all to see.

My sympathy is with the ones who are killed. If that wasent the case, I would have been a supporter of war for Isroil.

 

[farhan]

So choosing not to get married is forbidden?

Choosing not to get married isnt necessarily forbidden. But institutionalizing & promoting it as some alternate "more pious" way of life is.

 

[seattlegal]

Choosing not to get married isnt necessarily forbidden. But institutionalizing & promoting it as some alternate "more pious" way of life is.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[The Dude]

So where are the Muslim monasteries?

And if Muhamudd included and engaged in polygamy just because of the way things had been previously you can hardly say that he perfected God's religion. Your rationale for Islamic polygamy gives much credence to the Baha'is claims of successorship to Islam.

Also your claim that only 1% of Muslims practice polygamy is dubious. I dare say that you are only counting the men with multiple wives. If one man has four wives that means that essentially eight people are practicing polygamy. The husband, his four wives and the three guys who are marital have-nots.

 

[c0de]

So where are the Muslim monasteries?

There are no Islamic monasteries Dude. Like Farhan said, this behaviour was never institutionalized in Islam.

And if Muhamudd included and engaged in polygamy just because of the way things had been previously you can hardly say that he perfected God's religion. Your rationale for Islamic polygamy gives much credence to the Baha'is claims of successorship to Islam.

What if tomorrow there was WWIII and the demographics changed again?

Also your claim that only 1% of Muslims practice polygamy is dubious. I dare say that you are only counting the men with multiple wives. If one man has four wives that means that essentially eight people are practicing polygamy. The husband, his four wives and the three guys who are marital have-nots.

Even if we follow your calculations, the number I would bet is less then 1%. Probably less then half of one percent. There are a billion + muslims in the world. The only place in which polygamy is popular, it seems to be in the houses of the very rich Saudi sheikhs. And how many of those are there?

 

[seattlegal]

There are no Islamic monasteries Dude. Like Farhan said, this behaviour was never institutionalized in Islam.




What if tomorrow there was WWIII and the demographics changed again?



Even if we follow your calculations, the number I would bet is less then 1%. Probably less then half of one percent. There are a billion + muslims in the world. The only place in which polygamy is popular, it seems to be in the houses of the very rich Saudi sheikhs. And how many of those are there?

Don't forget Africa.

[SIZE=-1] The proportion of women in a polygamous union was 48% in Senegal, 31% in Ghana, 23% in Kenya, and 16% in Zimbabwe.
~ excerpt from abstract [/SIZE]Factors on polygamy in sub-Saharan Africa: findings based on the Demographic and Health Surveys. By Hayase Y; Liaw KL
​

They didn't include Sudan in this study, either, where President Bashir encourages the practice.
SudanTribune article : Perception of polygamous marriage in Sudanese society
BBC News | AFRICA | Sudan pushes polygamy

 

[c0de]

Don't forget Africa.

[SIZE=-1] The proportion of women in a polygamous union was 48% in Senegal, 31% in Ghana, 23% in Kenya, and 16% in Zimbabwe.
~ excerpt from abstract [/SIZE]Factors on polygamy in sub-Saharan Africa: findings based on the Demographic and Health Surveys. By Hayase Y; Liaw KL
​

They didn't include Sudan in this study, either, where President Bashir encourages the practice.
SudanTribune article : Perception of polygamous marriage in Sudanese society
BBC News | AFRICA | Sudan pushes polygamy

Interesting, I did not know that. Thanks

 

[Radunzel]

Why is it strange?? :S

its common sense

how many followers of islam are there if monasticism is in place.. 0
how many followers of islam are there if polygamy is in place.. ?x4

more women = more children = more muslims

silly =P

 

[Abdullah]

I find it odd that even though polygamy is enjoined by Islam monastic life is forbidden.

If you do the math correctly you're left with a bunch of guys without much to do or live for. This could very well be a factor contributing to Islam's propensity for generating suicide bombers.

What did Muhammud expect all these "excess" guys to do with their lives anyway?

Hi Dude

you mean the children born to muslims?

Well everyone born to a Muslim is another one saved... [God-willing], thus they're never 'excess'; the more the better

What are they to do?; worship Allah and earn their paradise and save themselves from hell

Peace