Problem is, people don't seem to know what `Himself' refers to very well.
For instance,
who or what are you? If you can at least answer this question accurately, then perhaps we have a shot at
approximating something about Christ Jesus. Otherwise, we're off on the wrong start to being with.
Notice, that even when the
Apostles [namely,
Philip] ask Jesus to "
show us the Father," Christ responds that
He is the Father, although He states it in this fashion:
"I and the Father are ONE."
Notice that he did not say,
"I AM GOD." That would be different. Rather, he
preserved the distinction, even in his answer. "I
and the Father" ... followed by an
affirmation of UNITY. This should tell us, as those of us with a Gnostic background and familiar with esoteric teachings realize, that
there is something going on `behind the scenes,' so to speak. Something about Jesus is definitely
`under the hood.'
Again,
the Apostles were even unclear about these matters. I do not suggest that we are talking rocket science here, but if you think it's as simple as trotting out a few Biblical passages, you won't get any farther than the next guy. No, I think it takes a little more than that to understand.
It's a fallacy of thinking, however, a serious problem in our logic, if we think that
just because a goodly number of folks ALSO think the way we do, that we necessarily have it all figured out. The argument that,
"this is the Tradition of the ages" just plain doesn't hold up.
When you look at what
this same TRADITION has been responsible for down through the centuries, all the hatred, killing, prejudice, double standards, hypocrisy and power-mongering ... all in
Christ's Holy Name ... I think it's pretty plain to see how much of any original `tradition' is left behind certain
NAMES, pretty costumes and vain repetitions.
Thus, those who speak too much of
"the spirit" behind the
letter, really amount to nothing more than a lot of
hot air. Although that's enough to lift the balloon off the ground, and sometimes
wow the masses ... it doesn't fool the rest of us, because some of us have known better ~ pretty much all along, and the rest of the world is definitely catching up.
No, I think once we examine the evidence to which
every man may arrive,
ON HIS OWN and without
some external authority wagging its finger at him, God - and Christ - become knowable no matter where you go on this planet, and they are as accessible, as apparent, in a beautiful field of lilies as in any church anywhere ... probably more so.
I think any intelligent individual can safely conclude that with the
tens of thousands of independently registered churches in existence now,
EACH ONE claiming some kind of
superior revelation or
special status with the Lord ... there is actually only ONE fallacy here that needs correcting.
And that is the patently offensive notion that
God is somehow inherently more accessible to some, than others ... or more `present' for and to some of us, than others. When a man steps up to the plate and begins barking on about
"my tradition is more `true to Word' [sic] than yours," he says a whole lot about himself and his ignorance, and the degree to which his
EGO still stands
securely upon the threshold, preventing further spiritual progress.
No sir,
THAT DOG WON'T HUNT!
Jesus is definitely the most misunderstood man in history, and
in his wake the entire Christian tradition ...
precisely because his
Message has been
co-opted by every Tom, Dick and Harry that has a
personal agenda he's trying to push ... and yes, this was certainly going on from DAY ONE.
Judas supported Jesus Barabbas precisely because he had a problem seeing where and how
Christ Jesus could or would deliver. Christ
demonstrated for Judas Iscariot, time and time again, that
He was indeed the Messiah, the
One for Whom the Jewish people had been waiting and Hoping.
Judas could not accept this, however, because of
differences of opinion, and the insightful probably know where the source of doubt and temptation lay. The idea of somehow Peacefully advancing
God's Cause just did not jibe with an opportunity to
violently rebel against the Roman occupation ... and we pretty much know the rest of the story.
Folks, let's please get beyond the stage of Hero-Worship. Jesus never asked for that, and He has no interest in it today. He taught, then as now, that God
does exist within each and every one of us. Either you can see, sense, respond to and
Aspire to that ... or you still have a little ways to go. And that's just in
beginning a more formal stage of Discipleship training.
One need not belong to a church in order to set foot upon that path, and one need not
ever crack a Bible at all. The Teachings of Christ, after all, have been present since the world first begain ... which should be apparent if you have any faith whatsoever in such statements as,
"I am the Alpha and the Omega."
Let's not reveal our ignorance ... although I'd be the first to admit, there are times when Christ Jesus could probably walk
right past me, and I suspect
I would not know Him. What great VANITY, what foolishness, that we make ourselves out sometimes to be
superior to the original 12 Apostles, while even Peter was found to be lacking when it came to acknowledging and standing up for his own Teacher. Yes, we can understand why ... I realize that.
If God was incarnate via Christ Jesus, then could we not just acknowledge that and move forward? I think we get pretty hung up on this, and it pains me to see that Christians left and right
simply cannot [by which I mean DO not] bring themselves to recognize the Christ in their fellow man. Thomas goes so far as to argue here on the forums that
there is no such thing. Well friend, you pretty much just denied your Lord, right there. Now you're compounding the errors of
one Apostle with
... another.
Trust me; I know something about that,
and now *I'm* up to three [
what was the
deadliest of the 7 sins again???]. Why all the foolishness?
This is supposed to be an
Interfaith site, and I think all the discussion on the
Christian forums is kind of neat. Hey, I do have a Lutheran background, and I count a couple or so
fairly significant contributions from my past to be in the same vein as Christianity, or Christian thinking. I like to try and participate, but all this crap about
"my tradition trumps yours" just makes me wonder ... is anyone so supposedly
learned really capable of being so
ignorant, deep down inside?
No Christ within? What? You're going to hang this one on St. Paul, and slap together a few quotes from Chesterton and expect folks to buy that?
Dear God, is anyone really that
naive? Do folks sop that stuff up in the circle where you walk? If so, poor Joseph of Arimathea, poor St. Patrick, and a
host of other Saints and Sages really must have gotten less accomplished than I always believed. I mean, here at IO, sure, I might see that
a few American dopes ... people from right
here in this
Bible belt I have been called to serve in ... could perhaps swallow such nonsense. After all, they hear that business on the televangelist channels day in & day out. "
You're a wretched sinner, you have forsaken God; but if you send your hard-earned dollars my way, God will welcome you back to the fold with open arms."
Yes, Catholicism did make
ONE SOLID IMPACT on the world, and it is
going STRONG today:
The SALE OF INDULGENCES is as popular in America, here in the South, as it
ever was in the Dark Ages of Europe.
For Christ's sake
[sic] ... I know that people will be people, that the wolves will continue to prey on the sheep and that the best we can do sometimes is just try and increase the level of education, get folks to realize how wrong this is ...
...
but "NO CHRIST WITHIN!?!"
Yeah, I see it's happened, but
when did the Adversary make away with that oh-so-sharp & clever INTELLECT of yours, Thomas?
I suppose I'm as dull, my senses as deadened as a doornail at times,
but I would definitely fight, kicking & screaming, resisting with my last ounce of strength ... if and/or when what
*eye* see is pure foolishness as the alternative to my
ROCK.
No sir, I mean nothing about quantities or types of intoxicants here. I do realize it's a
gradual path ... to understanding, insight, illumination and
Inspiration. But having been acquainted with *each and every one of these* at various points, to at least some degree, I will NOT sit idly by and watch anyone butcher what is left of
Christ's Gospel.
You cannot nail it to a cross, drape it around your neck, jot it down on
gilded pages ...
or stuff it into one man's head, hand or heart, then pronounce him
GOD, and expect the world to believe that - or understand. Sorry, there's a bit more involved ... and even when, even as God
takes Incarnation [which is something I believe in as fervently as any Christian, and know to be TRUE as surely as I know my
own name], there are
degrees of Revelation (via that individual), and as we have been told,
"ye shall know them by their fruit."
I'm so disappointed that even among the
otherwise [potentially] elect, this here wonderful tree, bearing such AWESOME and Amazing Fruit ... still seems to be
all too seldom sought-after, as if Christ prefers loneliness to company, and would have us all remain
at arm's length.
Yes, I realize that we may
make application ... and, though accepting of US, it does take some time before we may be more fully accepting
of HIM. Let's at least get that part straight. But anywhere you go in this whole wide world, however you may call on Him, in whatever tongue
OR tradition, I can assure
straight from the Source ... YES, Christ WILL - and DOES - Answer.
THAT TOO, is in
your Christian BIBLE. Or have we all forgotten THIS passage,
or decided it's CONTEXT somehow needs sudden
reinventing to SHIELD us from ...
The
Truth
Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam.
