Can fallen angels be saved?
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You might consider the parable of the two sons.
In the Catholic Tradition, angels are beings of pure spirit, that is, spiritual substances of a rational nature.
Only a rational creature (that is, a creature with intellect and will) can sin.
The sin of angels cannot be fleshly, and can be said to be two: pride and envy.
The fallen angels did not lose their natural knowledge by their sin; nor did they lose their angelic intellect.
Man fell by an error of will (pride and envy), that arose in the physical senses, and occluded his spiritual senses, by the loss of grace through an act of disobedience.
Thus man is corrupt in his person, but not in his nature.
Angels fell by the same error, but an angel is not a corporate being as man is, angels are a single substance, so when that substance is corrupted by sin, it is corrupted absolutely.
The fallen angels are obstinate in evil, unrepentant, inflexibly determined in their sin. This follows from their nature as pure spirits, for the choice of a pure spirit is necessarily final and unchanging.
The knowledge of angels is created at the moment the angel is created; angels do not learn by experience, and their degree of knowledge is determined according to their place in the angelic orders. Knowledge can be revealed to angels, however, as only God possesses all, absolutely.
Angels It is perhaps worth noting that in the exchanges between Jesus and various demons in Scripture, the demons always know who Jesus is, referring to Him as the Son of God (cf Matthew 8:29, Luke 4:41), but they never ask for healing, forgiveness, nor show repentance.
Thus, it is argued, angels cannot be saved, primarily because they do not seek redemption.
God bless,
Thomas
Only a rational creature (that is, a creature with intellect and will) can sin.
The sin of angels cannot be fleshly, and can be said to be two: pride and envy.
The fallen angels did not lose their natural knowledge by their sin; nor did they lose their angelic intellect.
Man fell by an error of will (pride and envy), that arose in the physical senses, and occluded his spiritual senses, by the loss of grace through an act of disobedience.
Thus man is corrupt in his person, but not in his nature.
Angels fell by the same error, but an angel is not a corporate being as man is, angels are a single substance, so when that substance is corrupted by sin, it is corrupted absolutely.
The fallen angels are obstinate in evil, unrepentant, inflexibly determined in their sin. This follows from their nature as pure spirits, for the choice of a pure spirit is necessarily final and unchanging.
The knowledge of angels is created at the moment the angel is created; angels do not learn by experience, and their degree of knowledge is determined according to their place in the angelic orders. Knowledge can be revealed to angels, however, as only God possesses all, absolutely.
Angels It is perhaps worth noting that in the exchanges between Jesus and various demons in Scripture, the demons always know who Jesus is, referring to Him as the Son of God (cf Matthew 8:29, Luke 4:41), but they never ask for healing, forgiveness, nor show repentance.
Thus, it is argued, angels cannot be saved, primarily because they do not seek redemption.
God bless,
Thomas
Hi Thomas ,\
Angels have bodies but the bodies consist of more light than the human body this is what is referred to as spirit. When they fell their spirit and souls were sealed away just like human bodies are. Their life span is measured by eternities where humann life span is measured in years. So yes they also can be saved.
I'm was discussing angels as understood in the Christian Tradition, I'm not sure what you're talking about, or where you're getting your information from.
God bless,
Thomas
All the texts talk about angels. All heavenly beings are angelic being but so are human beings when they put on their divine selves because everyone is a smaller version of heavenly beings. However hes one point. If you saw a literal heavenly being in their true state they really do have wings. Thats the only difference aside from their size.
You know in revelation when it says the great angel, they are referrring to Michael places one foot on the land and one on the sea as far as size you can take that literally.
Fallen angels are in a separated condition their souls and spirits are not one with their angelic body like human beings soul and spirit are not one but rather filtered through. So they are also a part of salvation
What texts? I am not aware of the texts that assert what you are saying.
Well Christianity refutes that on a number of points:
Human beings are made in the divine image, not in any angelic image, nor are there multiple selves in the human person — the person is transfigured by the divine, there are not multiple divine selves.
Angels, being spiritual beings, do not have 'form' as material creatures do, so form, size and so on are how we 'perceive' or 'interpret' them, it is not necessarily how they actually are.
Thus angels infer grace, beauty, poise, light, and so on; demons infer ugliness, grossness, darkness, horns and pointy tails — but it's all in how the soul/psyche interprets the data of the spiritual senses.
If it suits the angel's purpose, it can appear as an ugly creature; if it suits the demon's purpose, it can appear quite beautiful.
It's quite possible to converse with an angel, without knowing it. It's quite possible to converse with a demon, assuming it to be an angel. The discernment of spirits is itself a gift of the spirit.
God bless,
Thomas
Well the bible does say you may be talking to angels and not know it. There are two differences between heavenly beings and earthly beings. One is heavenly beings really do have wings. Of course you cannot see them if they are in the earthly body until they take on the preearthly form. Two is heavenly beings are made up of more light , but its still all a breakdown of the same blood. Say someone had O blood. Its center and all the other blood types come from that blood. They refer to that blood as the universal donor correct? Everything comes from one source. If you were to see say for example Michael in his true form he literally could place one foot on the land and one on the sea thats how big he is because heavenly beings are bigger. I reference movies to get my point across like the 5th element movie when the engineer says its dna just more of them , tightly packed. So everything in this universe is a smaller version of everything in the heavenly kingdom with everything contained in one source the creator.
As far as texts , I do not know any religion that does not have references to angels in the texts.
I am not trying to be rude so forgive my second post. If a being from heaven were to incarnate into the human body , from the center family god , michael ect they would have to come from two parents : one with O+ blood and one with 0- blood but you would get 0 blood which all of the codes that make up this whole universe would be contained within that blood. The reason you get 0 blood is because its coming from above so the combination of 0+ and 0- would make the human body have O blood.....make sense?
All living beings have free will. Just like human beings BODIES are separated from the essence of soul and spirit but its rather filtered through so are fallen angels BODIES. All living things consist of (4) parts but I will talk about 3. Body soul and spirit. So yes fallen angels can be saved as well. Its all about union with the spirit and soul that is literally love. Its like being away from home, you miss being one with those parts. Heres the difference. An incarnated being from heaven the divine self is not separated , but a suffering of death of a divine level where the angelic body was separated but then died is part of angelic salvation. However that divine body is risen inside the incarnated human body as in whole again which is defined by an awakening filtered through the human body. Human salvation is the knowledge that is attained because in this case the human body also had died and was brought back . I call all of this sealing and binding though. The blood is the key being literally O containing all the codes of the whole universe within it.
Why? They don't 'fly' as that assumes aerodynamic movement in an atmosphere, they are messengers however, and wings are widely associated with the messenger. Most of the appearances of angels are without wings.
But the light is not the luminescence you get from a sun, a star or a torch, that it, it is not light produced by excitation of atoms — that is material light, or physical light, if I can stretch the term.
Spiritual light is, again, an analogy. Light signifies presence, being, knowing, understanding ... as in the expression 'shed some light on the matter' does not mean shine a light on it, but turn one's attention to it, or 'I saw the light' when one understands something.
No, I don't think so. Angels are not material creatures.
I don't argue that, my point was that what you are talking about are not angels according to the Christian tradition, that's all.
Angels in the Christian tradition are pure mind, if you like, with no body.
And the odds are the origin of angels was a demotion of various gods after the Jews became more solidly founded in monotheism.
As creatures, they are 'higher' than us because we are fallen/corrupt nature, but in matters of essence, we are higher than angels because angels are spirit, whereas we are spirit and matter.
At present, in man the spirit is subject to the matter, but in time, the matter will become subject to the spirit — this is what we mean by baptism, by transfiguration, and by resurrection — and when that happens, the cosmos will be reborn, and the angels will stand back in awe ... we will 'rock their world' and then, and only then, might it be possible that the fallen can be saved, but until then, the demonic orders are what they are, and seek no redemption.
Maranatha.
God bless,
Thomas
The concept of bodiless angelic beings is obsurd. If human was created in the image and likeness of that tells you angelic beings have bodies. Messangers bring knowledge so in one way your correct. However god himself is a literal angelic being and who said divinity doesnt need wings? Its a part of the whole as a divine being. Aside from that the bodies are the same as humans but consist of more like like sorry a movie again , the engineer in the 5th element movie said its dna but more of them , more codes. Each of us has a number within our cells that is your own specific code that is an unchangable number telling what you are. You can only become this number you cannot increase it. So human beings are in the image of. Remember Who is like god....it didnt say who is god. You cannot become something your not but you have to realize human beings are much smaller. They will never be as big as a divine being , its like a fish out of water....in the grand scheme of things everything has its own place.
One more thing, since each on earth is created in the image of a heavenly conterpart you have to find your own divine self.
Donnann, you had made some references before which indicated you either were Catholic or are Catholic, I inquired yet you did not answer. This is not to be prejudicial but to simply know where you are coming from. What is your religious background? What do you consider yourself today?
A Cup Of Tea
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donnann, from your post on blood types and DNA it would appear you don't know what you're talking about. You should read up on it, if you get a chance you should perhaps take a natural science course. Some basic understanding of science might help you argue your cause, like the fact that you don't believe in evolution.
Again, it's fine to use the 5th element as an illustration, but what they say in it isn't science. DNA wouldn't function the way it dose if it looked like it did in the movie.
Again, it's fine to use the 5th element as an illustration, but what they say in it isn't science. DNA wouldn't function the way it dose if it looked like it did in the movie.