Religion of not knowing
- Thread starter garro
- Start date
Thanks Seattlegal, I do love the idea of beginner's mind.
My preacher did a talk on not knowing a couple of weeks ago. I'm gonna have to listen to it again....
I get in so much trouble for expressing that, perhaps you've expressed it in a way that isn't so contentious.
nothing is a miracle and everything is a miracle.garro said:
I get in so much trouble for expressing that, perhaps you've expressed it in a way that isn't so contentious.
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
"I believe in nothing and everything is sacred; I believe in everything and nothing is sacred"—the Chink
It could be the only miracle is creation and we miss out if we do not immerse ourselves in it moment to moment. Revelation is thus an extension of creation by which G!d reaches out to us. Redemption is then our responding (again, within creation) to G!d via action in the world.
It could be the only miracle is creation and we miss out if we do not immerse ourselves in it moment to moment. Revelation is thus an extension of creation by which G!d reaches out to us. Redemption is then our responding (again, within creation) to G!d via action in the world.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
L
Lunitik
Guest
It will lead to a recognition that you were never the doer...
I know that you claim to not be the doer. For example: who, or what, makes you smoke?
I also know that you cling to your ability to do. For example: how important is your freedom to do whatever you want?
L
Lunitik
Guest
This body wants nicotine, it has smoked for almost 20 years, it is not worth fighting with it about this. I do not smoke though, I simply permit this body its wants - there is no attachment.
It is not freedom to do what I want, it is ensuring I am not in a prison. If you are not free, you might as well be dead because life is not worth living without it. Any sort of restriction takes away from your ability to celebrate, and this is all that we are here for.
L
Lunitik
Guest
luecy: please explain, I have never met anyone more materialistic than you - you have chosen money over your own family. Why do you feel you have anything worthwhile to say about spirituality? Your own Jesus has declared it is more difficult for a camel to pass the head of a pin than for a rich man to get into heaven. He has never used money during his entire mission, relying instead on his disciples to buy whatsoever is needed by the group. Do you not see how far from Jesus you actually are?
L
Lunitik
Guest
The living are doing.
False, the surviving are doing, the living are relaxing and enjoying, trusting existence to provide whatsoever they need - as Jesus has relied on the disciples.
Then, this is the mood of this country, survival of the fittest... no one is permitted to just stop and rejoice.
L
Lunitik
Guest
Celebration is not something you do, it is something you feel.
This existence is celebrating, can you see it? The song of the bird, the dancing of the grass, it is all a celebration... but it is not a doing. It is more a responding to whatsoever arises, the sun is coming up so they sing, the wind is tickling them so they dance. They are not doing because there is no choice, it is simply the expression of their celebration.
So you are a sensor. You say you don't smoke, it is your body that smokes. I know you have accused others, including me, of making you smoke. Do you speak, or is this just your body doing the speaking, and you merely watch what it has to say?
L
Lunitik
Guest
There have been occasions where even I have listened to my words and grown through them, yes. It is because existence itself takes over, I merely observe as a witness. Even in regular activities, like playing soccer, I have felt existence taking possession and enjoying the game for itself, then let me come back in and have it continue messing with me and other players. This is why I say it is a play, it should never be taken seriously, because if you do you have simply misunderstood.
I am not discussing sensory or emotional feelings, it is more a state of being, like bliss. What is the difference? Emotions and things which are sensed continue arising and falling, what I speak of is constant. Yet, despite it being my normal condition now, it is still never gotten used to, there is never a tolerance built up. It is because every moment there is a death and a resurrection, every moment is fresh and new.
Sure you are. You can stop smoking. You have that freedom.
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Lunitik
Guest
Sure you are. You can stop smoking. You have that freedom.
It has no negative affect though, it is only affecting you and you are some 2000 miles away. Do you not feel this body deserves its freedom to do whatsoever it wants as well? If it doesn't effect my ability to be a witness, it is not right to stop it from anything. It actually assists though, it makes it far easier to do meditations related to breath because it is so clear where the smoke is circling.
It is funny you believe you are spiritual, yet you are still continuing to try to get a rise out of me despite being in your 40's. You are expressing a mental age of about 5.
You believe so? Where is your family? What did you choose, over having a family? I work with my wife. Who do you work with?
My... own... Jesus?! Seriously, you think I own Jesus? Do you think I own my wife and children too?
I must be a disciple then, having money to buy whatsoever is needed by the group.
I feel much further from Lunitik. How far from Jesus do you think I am?
L
Lunitik
Guest
I simply am not, I do not have a wife or a family or anything in this world, none of it is mine, it is only for me to enjoy for a while. I chose nothing, and I continue to be choiceless, because I am not so delusional to feel I have any.
Yes, certainly you own your own conception of Jesus, of faith.
I think you believe you own your wife and children as well yes, it is directly in the language you use for them "my".
I must be a disciple then, having money to buy whatsoever is needed by the group.
Do you think the disciples arrived, attained to heaven? Thomas has known, but other than him, even the apostles have not arrived.
An exact antonym, you are utterly caught up in this worldly life, he has not participated in it at all other than to bring people out of their slumber.
You sound materialistic to me, placing your body above all else.
I started with just a question, and you rose to the occasion. As I ask: Do you think your knowing comes from your doing, or does your doing come from your knowing? Your answer appears to be: you don't do... you just watch and feel.