Religion of not knowing

[Lunitik]

Again, you use logic to try to think your way out of the conundrum you find yourself in. "One way" is someting for ideologues and solipsists.

All the post did was answer a question. You have one. I have another. Why all this anger?

Where do you see anger?

I am not saying there is one way, you continue to think this is what I am saying... I am saying there is only one destination and that the way is irrelevant because you are already there. I am saying the way is irrelevant, it is a figment of your imagination, a device to delay. See you are the destination, then celebrate this.

The seeker is the sought, he has just forgotten.

 

[Lunitik]

You and I come from so different ways of thinking, what you say is not applicable on who I am and choose to be. It might be that I will never be enlightened from your point of view, but that's fine with me. The journey is the only thing that has had any value for me and I can't see that that will ever change.

That is just it, you value your thinking, you value your choices, so you cling to them.

You do not see these are your barrier.

Drop them all, become utterly naked, then simply see what is left - it is what you actually are, there is no reason to fear.

Before your name
Before your family
Before your learning
Before your activities
Find it what was there
Find out the nature of your natural isness, the one that says "I am".
That is enlightenment.
To discover you are naught but love itself.
Jesus says God is love, you do not see you are too.
Can there be two loves? No, there is only love.
How low can man stumble that he fears and avoids melting into love?

 

[radarmark]

ACOT... the same can be said of scientific knowledge. We know we will never get to some "final absolute truth". The fun is is doing it, expanding what one (or if one is really good) what humanity knows or knows what it doesn't know.

 

[Lunitik]

From our very birth, we seek and claw for love.
We make the mistake of identifying with things we love though, we give power to that which we decide we love... we forget we are pure love ourselves.
Existence itself is naught but love expressing itself
The greatest way to "fall in love" is to fall into existence, to trust existence utterly
Then what I am saying is revealed to you
The only barrier is YOU

 

[radarmark]

Again, you miss the point. One must have a "trigger" to the Beyond. Be it an experience (being caned in the Dojo for sleeping or a chance meeting with a boddisattwa), a guru (alive or read about or heard on tape), or a moment of reflexion (say reading the Platform SUtra, which after all is pleasureable in and of itself). The Sudden School is not the "uncaused school".

But even your path is not "uncaused", you keep preaching about how to reach and go beyond. If it were not for your ego (your attitude of "one way") you might reach this lifetime (again, I exercise the right to not believe you have gone--I see no evidence of empathy or loving-kindness or inclusivity in what you post).

But that is just me. Like ACOT, I am just doing the best I can given what I have. Neither of us really appreciate the priesthood you exemplify.

 

[Lunitik]

ACOT... the same can be said of scientific knowledge. We know we will never get to some "final absolute truth". The fun is is doing it, expanding what one (or if one is really good) what humanity knows or knows what it doesn't know.

Science observes the manifestation, it cannot find the nature of it because it functions through it. I am imploring you to see the nature of it, to discover you are the nature of it, it is merely love trying to make itself known.

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

Lunitik, I do not feel it as fear, you might insist that it is, but it is not what I believe.
I do cling to those things, I love them. I have no reason, except your word, that there is anything higher (understand my choice of word), and I don't want anything more, this is enough. When it isn't, I will face that when I get there.

I agree Radar, funny how it can all meld at times.

 

[Lunitik]

Again, you miss the point. One must have a "trigger" to the Beyond. Be it an experience (being caned in the Dojo for sleeping or a chance meeting with a boddisattwa), a guru (alive or read about or heard on tape), or a moment of reflexion (say reading the Platform SUtra, which after all is pleasureable in and of itself). The Sudden School is not the "uncaused school".

But even your path is not "uncaused", you keep preaching about how to reach and go beyond. If it were not for your ego (your attitude of "one way") you might reach this lifetime (again, I exercise the right to not believe you have gone--I see no evidence of empathy or loving-kindness or inclusivity in what you post).

But that is just me. Like ACOT, I am just doing the best I can given what I have. Neither of us really appreciate the priesthood you exemplify.

I am trying to function as that trigger.

I have gone beyond, I reside beyond, and I am holding the door that you might enter as well.

 

[Lunitik]

Lunitik, I do not feel it as fear, you might insist that it is, but it is not what I believe.
I do cling to those things, I love them. I have no reason, except your word, that there is anything higher (understand my choice of word), and I don't want anything more, this is enough. When it isn't, I will face that when I get there.

I agree Radar, funny how it can all meld at times.

Might I ask, then, why you have pursued faith?

I am attempting to present the culmination, the purpose of it... I share the same as Jesus, as Buddha, as all those before me because I am them - there is no difference other than my words.

If it is idle curiosity on your part, I might suggest you are just wasting your time, that you should drop it all and enjoy life until existence calls you to go deeper.

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

In what way have pursued faith? I don't know that I have.

 

[radarmark]

Ah, grasshopper. When the 36th Patriarch says the only way is through your mind (see my posts quoting him) because the Buddha is already there. Forgive me if this focus on "you" seems a little trivial. I am not my mind or my body or this stream of experiences (see Hume and Whitehead for a Western view of what the Buddha was revealing)... so what is this "you" you keep harping on?

Again, you fail to understand what I am sying here. The "you" you hypothecize is a construct within your monkey-mind (manomaya). The way beyond is open to all, regardless of anything.... except this focus on "you" you have. Grok?

 

[Lunitik]

It is not a question of "after life", there is only one life.

You are not distinct from that one life, but you insist otherwise so there is all sorts of suffering and stupidity, you cannot simply relax and enjoy because you feel there is much to do here. There is nothing, you have invented all of this to delay, it is strange to me.

Is the mortal life so appealing that you don't want to see what you really are?

 

[Lunitik]

In what way have pursued faith? I don't know that I have.

You have come to interfaith.org for a reason.

 

[Lunitik]

Ah, grasshopper. When the 36th Patriarch says the only way is through your mind (see my posts quoting him) because the Buddha is already there. Forgive me if this focus on "you" seems a little trivial. I am not my mind or my body or this stream of experiences (see Hume and Whitehead for a Western view of what the Buddha was revealing)... so what is this "you" you keep harping on?

Again, you fail to understand what I am sying here. The "you" you hypothecize is a construct within your monkey-mind (manomaya). The way beyond is open to all, regardless of anything.... except this focus on "you" you have. Grok?

It is a function of language... do not question based on it.

Buddha is the Mind, not the mind... understand the difference. It is better to say Mind is no-mind because it is more correct, less confusing.

It doesn't mean the thoughts of your little self, it means the consciousness, the awareness of existence itself.

 

[radarmark]

Might I ask, then, why you have pursued faith?

Another flight of your fancy, she nor I have never made faith an issue.

I am attempting to present the culmination, the purpose of it... I share the same as Jesus, as Buddha, as all those before me because I am them - there is no difference other than my words.

Ah, but words do not count (see the TTC). But I believe both of us see huge differences between those you compare yourself with (ah, there goes ego again) and the attitude displayed in your words. Things like empathy and discernment and inclusiveness and wisdom.

If it is idle curiosity on your part, I might suggest you are just wasting your time, that you should drop it all and enjoy life until existence calls you to go deeper.

The last resort of a truly ideological and solipsist ego. ACOT, the search and the occasional flashes of insight may be all we get. But IMHO that light shower is preferable to a drought.

 

[radarmark]

It is a function of language... do not question based on it.

Buddha is the Mind, not the mind... understand the difference. It is better to say Mind is no-mind because it is more correct, less confusing.

It doesn't mean the thoughts of your little self, it means the consciousness, the awareness of existence itself.

Now you know more than the Buddha, huh? I believe your ego is showing.

 

[Lunitik]

There is no ego here, you see ego because I speak with authority.

Does Jesus have an ego? Does Buddha have an ego? Does Muhammad have an ego? Krishna?

None of them do, they simply know and refuse any nonsense.

 

[Lunitik]

Now you know more than the Buddha, huh? I believe your ego is showing.

I am merely pointing out his correct intention, it is not possible to go higher than Buddha.

You can know your own Buddha-nature, but he has come to the peak, there is nothing higher than the peak.

Krishna, Jesus, Nanak, Muhammad, all have come to the same peak, each is exactly the same in their essence, only their words differ because their audience has differed, and their times have differed - not to mention each uses a different language.

 

[Lunitik]

Each I list has gone absolutely against the tradition, the common conception of truth... do you think this is their ego?

Certainly, those that apposed were fueled by ego...

 

[radarmark]

My G!d son (or daughter), just calm down and re-read the last four posts you made. Do you comprehend why it is so dang difficult for us to take you at your word that you are Tathagatha?