One God as Omnipresent

Qu'otar

charlie
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In discussions with many Christians, here in America, it seems that Christ is in the place of God, rather than being a way to God. For sure Christ is within each of us, especially when invited, but we still have the other two aspects of the Trinity as One. The holy spirit can baptize us and infiill us. What of the Father? He can be reached through Christ and the Holy Spirit, to the point when Christ and the Father are one.

Still, where is the God within the Father? They are the same, but as God, includes the Son and the Holy Spirit...

Ephesians 4:6 said:
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Ephesians 4:15 said:
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ

which leads one back to:

1 Corinthians 11:3-15 said:
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.


13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?

14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

So what the heck does that mean? This has really been confusing me.
 
1 Corinthians 11:9-12 said:
9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.
So what the heck does that mean? This has really been confusing me.
I have a theory, related to God as Omnipresent and the foundation of my belief that all monotheistic religions are true. It is the bridal chamber.

From Ephesians 4: The head of a woman is the man and the head of a man is Christ and the head of Christ is God. So, we are all connected to God.

Now, with the limit that this is talking about spiritual things and not physical things, every gender, man or woman, are really men in the sense of Ephesians. Spiritual Man is the principle of consciousness taking action in the world. Spiritual Woman is the principle of the world which surrounds the person. The Holy Spirit infills through the Spiritual Woman of a person and her hair is covered. Do not let her unprincipled decisions. You have to instill principles of your behavior that let's her infill you. The Temple.

So a gender woman acts as a spiritual man and incurs Karmic debts like a gender man. The same.

From The Gospel of Philip:
The forms of evil spirit include male ones and female ones. The males are they which unite with the souls which inhabit a female form, but the females are they which are mingled with those in a male form, though one who was disobedient. And none shall be able to escape them, since they detain him if he does not receive a male power or a female power, the bridegroom and the bride. One receives them from the mirrored bridal chamber. When the wanton women see a male sitting alone, they leap down on him and play with him and defile him. So also the lecherous men, when they see a beautiful woman sitting alone, they persuade her and compel her, wishing to defile her. But if they see the man and his wife sitting beside one another, the female cannot come into the man, nor can the male come into the woman. So if the image and the angel are united with one another, neither can any venture to go into the man or the woman.

So, when the bridegroom is acquired and a marriage is formed, then one is incorruptible and can receive the Christ, and you are on the ladder, to God. The bridal chamber is mirrored, since you are looking at your own reflection as male or female, the gender opposite.

So, I think the sequence becomes, make commitments to divine principles (10 commandments) to build the Temple, invite Christ (and Mary) into your heart to protect and inform and assist you, form a gender opposite of your psychology, get to the mirrored bridal chamber and marry, go into the waters and receive the Holy Spirit, become Christ-like.

This is supported by the images on the Ptolemic Gate at Karnak, where the head-dresses are for each divisive religion around the world, and some marriages intermarry between religions, married by a priest, each marriage forming a unity, with everyone in heaven at the top row and above that is the water, earth, air, and fire of the sun disk, Amon-Ra, above all.

2489764392_12b7b9df8c_b.jpg


Question: is any of this supported by Vedic literature?

God is omnipresent.
 
... invite Christ (and Mary) into your heart to protect and inform and assist you ...
I agree with your post except on this point.

We may ask the intercession of the Blessed Virgin, but she is a woman, she is not divine, and therefore cannot enter the heart in the way the Divine can.

God bless,

Thomas
 
I agree with your post except on this point.

We may ask the intercession of the Blessed Virgin, but she is a woman, she is not divine, and therefore cannot enter the heart in the way the Divine can.

God bless,

Thomas

If the soul consists of the two gender halves, then for sure one could invite Mary, as the root representation of the Holy Spirit, into the heart. The exact same as inviting the Holy Spirit into your heart.

Blessings,
Rob
 
If the soul consists of the two gender halves ...
I don't think that's the case.

... then for sure one could invite Mary, as the root representation of the Holy Spirit, into the heart. The exact same as inviting the Holy Spirit into your heart.
No, that's definitely not the case. Mary is not a representative of the Holy Spirit. If anything, she is a representative of the human soul.

God bless,

Thomas
 
If the soul consists of the two gender halves ...
I don't think that's the case.

It is if you want to think of it that way. It does not violate the Qu'ran or the Bible, so it is up to your own spiritual visualization.

It fits with having a bride and bridegroom for the mirrored bridal chamber. Which fits with Hindu ideas of having a multi loving relationship with the Lord, one of marriage, father, mother, child.

... then for sure one could invite Mary, as the root representation of the Holy Spirit, into the heart. The exact same as inviting the Holy Spirit into your heart.
No, that's definitely not the case. Mary is not a representative of the Holy Spirit. If anything, she is a representative of the human soul.

Once again, it is up to your own visualization. It does work, you know...

Blessings,
Qu'otar
 
It is if you want to think of it that way. It does not violate the Qu'ran or the Bible, so it is up to your own spiritual visualization.

It fits with having a bride and bridegroom for the mirrored bridal chamber. Which fits with Hindu ideas of having a multi loving relationship with the Lord, one of marriage, father, mother, child.



Once again, it is up to your own visualization. It does work, you know...

Blessings,
Qu'otar

If it floats your boat then its fine, but to call it christianity is misleading as its not.

Both Islam and Christianity are more than just the books they are also the traditions that gave rise to the books.
 
It fits with having a bride and bridegroom for the mirrored bridal chamber. Which fits with Hindu ideas of having a multi loving relationship with the Lord, one of marriage, father, mother, child.
I don't see how? if you're saying the two genders of the soul are united, then the Lord is not necessarily part of that process.

In the Christian tradition, Nuptial Union is Divine Union, Christ is the groom, the soul is the bride.

God bless,

Thomas
 
If it floats your boat then its fine, but to call it christianity is misleading as its not.

Both Islam and Christianity are more than just the books they are also the traditions that gave rise to the books.

Protestantism is firmly established in Christianity, so I fail to see why I could not call it Christianity, as it is centric around Christ.

Islam should be the harder sell, but surprisingly I got about a 30% success rate!
 
Once again, it is up to your own visualization. It does work, you know...
Not really, not if what you're visualising has no reality behind it. What you get is the product of your own psyche, that's all.

God bless

thomas
 
Not really, not if what you're visualising has no reality behind it. What you get is the product of your own psyche, that's all.

Why don't you try it rather than being all uninformed and claiming it doesn't work?
 
I don't see how? if you're saying the two genders of the soul are united, then the Lord is not necessarily part of that process.

In the Christian tradition, Nuptial Union is Divine Union, Christ is the groom, the soul is the bride.

It is in the sense that once the genders have married, they are transformed into the Christ and Mary identity and you step up the ladder.
 
Protestantism is firmly established in Christianity, so I fail to see why I could not call it Christianity, as it is centric around Christ.

Islam should be the harder sell, but surprisingly I got about a 30% success rate!

i think its fine to have your own personal belief system but to try and pass it off as say Islam or Christianity is dishonest IMO.
 
If it floats your boat then its fine, but to call it Christianity is misleading as its not.

Both Islam and Christianity are more than just the books they are also the traditions that gave rise to the books.

hmmm seems to me Christianity is traditions and belief that gave rise to books, where as Islam is a book that gave rise to a religion.

Judaism existed as a tradition long before the books, and the books were barely compiled and Canonized before Jesus time... Jesus preached and his followers spread and churches popped up....the first books written in the NT were books like Corinthians, Paul responding to problems and trying to prop up early churches...the gospels were all nearly a half century later...again to reinforce, correct and record tradition...and they were all not compiled till three centuries later....

Islam while it claims we are all Muslim and always have been was basically initiated by Mohamed and the Quran, all recorded during his life, unlike all the other books which were written post abraham, moses and jesus
 
hmmm seems to me Christianity is traditions and belief that gave rise to books, where as Islam is a book that gave rise to a religion.

Islam is not just the Quran, far from it, its is the Quran and Sunnah or ways of the prophet, without the Sunnah there would be no Islam as we know it today. The lineage of Sheiks goes all the way back the the Prophet(saw) apparently so anyway.

Judaism existed as a tradition long before the books, and the books were barely compiled and Canonized before Jesus time... Jesus preached and his followers spread and churches popped up....the first books written in the NT were books like Corinthians, Paul responding to problems and trying to prop up early churches...the gospels were all nearly a half century later...again to reinforce, correct and record tradition...and they were all not compiled till three centuries later....

Islam while it claims we are all Muslim and always have been was basically initiated by Mohamed and the Quran, all recorded during his life.
 
In discussions with many Christians, here in America, it seems that Christ is in the place of God, rather than being a way to God.
Oh good grief ...
Christ is God, He is not in the place of God.

For sure Christ is within each of us, especially when invited, but we still have the other two aspects of the Trinity as One.
A number of assumptions there, including the idea of 'Christ within each of us' which is, I would suggest, somewhat reckless. Christ is quite clear on the point that if certain conditions are not met, then "Amen I say to you, I know you not" (Matthew 25:12).

Where God is, there the Trinity is, and where the Trinity is, there God is. You cannot separate God and the Trinity. They are not two things.

The holy spirit can baptize us and infiill us. What of the Father? He can be reached through Christ and the Holy Spirit, to the point when Christ and the Father are one.
The Holy Spirit reveals the Son, the Son reveals the Father, that's the hierarchy. Again, informed knowledge seems to rest on stuff learned in childhood, with little or no adult formation.

This is a problem well recognised but has little done to treat it. In the Uk there are a handful of us promoting the idea of mystagogy, ongoing spiritual formation.

Still, where is the God within the Father? They are the same, but as God, includes the Son and the Holy Spirit...
You're looking at it the wrong way. 'Father' and 'Son' are terms that describe an external relation, not an internal way of being.

So what the heck does that mean? This has really been confusing me.
Well there are a number of readings, but the immediate one is the literal. St Paul is dealing with disputes in the community at Corinth, and is calling the congregation to good order. Here was can see him assert many of the religious practices of the Jews, which was the culture Christianity sprang from.

God bless

thomas
 
Oh good grief ...
Christ is God, He is not in the place of God.

Please keep in mind that I am integrating the religions, therefore, I need to explain Christianity that does not offend a Muslim. Let us do so together.

The problem is that Muslims think that Christians think Christ is a separate God than Allaah. My only observation is that Christians (Protestants) think Christ as God, more than the Father as God.

A number of assumptions there, including the idea of 'Christ within each of us' which is, I would suggest, somewhat reckless. Christ is quite clear on the point that if certain conditions are not met, then "Amen I say to you, I know you not" (Matthew 25:12).

Yes indeed. You must follow his commandments.

Where God is, there the Trinity is, and where the Trinity is, there God is. You cannot separate God and the Trinity. They are not two things.

Very nice. I totally agree.

The Holy Spirit reveals the Son, the Son reveals the Father, that's the hierarchy. Again, informed knowledge seems to rest on stuff learned in childhood, with little or no adult formation.

I never learned any of this in childhood, so you have a real neophyte here. I like this hierarchy. It is one I have experienced.

This is a problem well recognised but has little done to treat it. In the Uk there are a handful of us promoting the idea of mystagogy, ongoing spiritual formation.

Fair enough. I am a Pentecost and have been baptized by the Holy Spirit.

You're looking at it the wrong way. 'Father' and 'Son' are terms that describe an external relation, not an internal way of being.

It is both external and internal, to my way of thinking. It starts of external then it inverts.

Well there are a number of readings, but the immediate one is the literal. St Paul is dealing with disputes in the community at Corinth, and is calling the congregation to good order. Here was can see him assert many of the religious practices of the Jews, which was the culture Christianity sprang from.

I do not think so, especially with the corollaries in Islam. I think it is a spiritual meaning, as I described partially in a later post. It has nothing to do with wearing physical hijabs or scarfs....It is a mystery that will be solved to illumine the connection between Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
 
Please keep in mind that I am integrating the religions, therefore, I need to explain Christianity that does not offend a Muslim.
OK. I presume we can also say in a way that does not offend a Christian?

Let us do so together.
OK

The problem is that Muslims think that Christians think Christ is a separate God than Allaah.
I know. We're accused of either polytheism or tritheism. But it is not the case, the doctrine is quite clear on that.

My only observation is that Christians (Protestants) think Christ as God, more than the Father as God.
I think if we're going to have a meaningful discussion, then one's views have to be shaped by scholarship, and not populist opinion. What many think of Islam today is not the view I hold of that Tradition, but I must admit that's founded more on informed discussions on comparative religion than on what the media or the man in the street thinks.

I never learned any of this in childhood, so you have a real neophyte here. I like this hierarchy. It is one I have experienced.
I found this for myself, even though I had a Catholic education! It's implicit in Scripture, and it was axiomatic for the Early Church. It's one of those things that later denominations lost sight of.

It is both external and internal, to my way of thinking. It starts of external then it inverts.
I would argue otherwise, as that's not what the doctrine says. There is no internal distinction in God. The Trinity is an analogous doctrine based on Revelation, but the more you go into it, the more it unfolds.

There is no distinction between who and what God is (Father), and what and who God thinks Himself to be (Son) and more than there is yourself, and your own self-awareness. In man, of course, both self-being and self-knowing are finite and contingent, but in God, they are not.

So the Son knows the Father as the Father knows Himself, not, as in the case of man, in which a son knows his father as someone other than himself.

So:
The whole Son and the whole Spirit are wholly and absolutely in the Father;
The whole Father and the whole Spirit are wholly and absolutely in the Son;
The whole Father and the whole Son are wholly and absolutely in the Spirit;

When we talk of relations between the Three Persons of the Trinity the term used is Perichoresis (Gk) or Circuminsession (Lt). An easier term might be 'indwelling'.

I do not think so...
Sorry, but you're wrong on this point. The Church in Corinth was riven by politics at the time, with factions within the community.

especially with the corollaries in Islam.
What corollaries?

I think it is a spiritual meaning...
Oh, there's always a spiritual reading — in fact there is a fourfold reading — but then there is always the literal ... that's fundamental to the reality of the Christian Mysteries.

It is a mystery that will be solved to illumine the connection between Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
That sounds quite inventive!

God bless,

Thomas
 
Re 1 Corinthians 11:
"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God" (v3)

Sp Paul is offering a hierarchy here. Working down from the top, as it were, 'the head of Christ is God' conforms to his vision of the Mystical Body, spoken of here, and in his other letters — Christ is the head, we are the members.

As all are equal in Christ, one could look at an esoteric interpretation of the text: Christ is the Logos of God, and from the Logos come the logoi, the essences (Gk: ousia), the 'Primary Causes' or 'Ideas' as Platonism would have it.

In relation to Christ, the essences are feminine because they receive their being from Him, He is their cause and therefore He is masculine to them, and they nurture what they receive, and are thus feminine to Him.

In relation to the cosmos however, there is an octave change, as it were, and everything switches. The feminine essences become the Primary Causes of creation, and are thus masculine, giving rise to their created effects, which are feminine...

I could go on.

Whether Paul meant any of this, or whether he was just fed up with the problems arising in the first community he'd founded, who can say?

God bless,

Thomas
 
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