Shiva adopted by Gnostics.

Racism is a basic sense of separation.

It separates humanity.

Drop the identification with separation.

Unity is truth.

Diversity is striving for union always.

See this.

Om Shanti.
 
If you cannot see your unity with humanity, there is no hope for unity with life.

Union is total inclusion, how much are you counting out?

Other is delusion, maya.

Life is one.

The very purpose of apparent separation is to know union.

Om Shanti.
 
I don't know what it is that folks perceive as racist... how can I prove or discuss whether it is or it isn't?

I am not a mind reader. I don't know what you or Joe see at issue...

I am willing to learn if anyone is willing to discuss.

It's all good, but today, I'm not your teacher.
 
I have found traditions of Mohini to further include Vishnu as Demiurge.

This is a female incarnation of Vishnu, whom Shiva procreates with, resulting in a son, Shastra.
Couple this with tails of Shiva cursing Brahma - the creator - for lying, which is what Gnostics say is so with the Jewish God - claiming to be the creator but actually isn't, we get a further understanding of the ranks of the Hindu Trimurti.

Since Shiva calls Vishnu the male essence of his Shakti - energy - we see that the Salvation God is preserving delusion - maya. It is giving man a goal, joining him to the world.

Since Brahma has come from Vishnu's naval, he cannot be other than Shakti also.

Shiva remains the transcendent reality.

Brahma is the creator of samsara.
Vishnu, the sustainer of samsara.
Shiva, the destroyer of samsara,
Thus, the source of moksha.

This is the only goal of Yoga.
 
Of course, clinging to appearances, it is obvious why Vishnu - and also the Father of Jesus - would be venerated. We do not wish to die, to return to Shiva, yet it is unavoidable.

Brahma - outside of Yoga, due to Shiva's curse - has caught on as creator, Yahweh and Allah.

Both are utterly involved in the world, samsara, maya or shakti.

I say true religion is about finding the underlying truth of what is.

That is Shiva.
 
Vishnu's consort is Lakshmi, bringer of prosperity and wealth - within illusion.

Saraswati, Brahma's consort, brings knowledge among other things - of the illusion.

These give a better conception of these Gods, since they are their lovers.

We think we are getting somewhere, we are enjoying what has come, but it is all just an appearance.

The Trimurti makes this clear...

The creator is of illusion - shakti.
The sustainer of illusion - shakti.
The destroyer of illusion - shiva.

Of course, Shakti is the desire of Shiva.

None the less, through form, taking an energetic expression, we engage in suffering.
Yes, there are many good things, all of which we will lose too.
For most, life is not enough, we want to understand something deeper.

Shiva is the cause of this, an inherent unifying quality of life.

In him, only, is transcendence, true happiness.

In understanding what we're perceiving, we cease to fight it.

Fighting is suffering.
 
Om Shanti.

Only understanding what is happening can you enjoy all that comes.

Ignorance will cause you to separate, favor, and make enjoyment impossible.

Shiva is called Adi Guru, the first teacher, the first to cause understanding.

Shiva is called Adi Yogi, the first union.

Shiva is called Mahadeva, the Great God.

Shiva is called Maheshvara, the Great Lord.

He is the source of religion.

Everything else is man attempting to convey him.

Om Shanti.
 
I cannot be other.

I see no basis for distinction.

This is the Yogi.

One who unifies with Shiva.

Who can only ascertain union.

In all human endeavor, it is only the refusal or submission to some unit.

This is the unconscious activity of life.

Conscious activity is in recognition of unity.

Only his vision is Yogic, universal.
 
In the most basic terms, though, it is clear Shiva is highest.

His role is destroyer, of whatever Brahma and Vishna do.

Thus, his power is above either.

His role is that of bringing us back to truth.

Destroying all that is not.

I am Shiva, partaker of Shanti.

That peace of transcending conflict.

That which is before separation.
 
From a traditional Saivite's POV, there are several problems with this.

Firstly, some of it is spot on ... but only at the deeper Advaitic levels.

Simplistic advaita, or neo-Advaita espouses the end goal, and that alone. It has little or no practical teaching on how to get to that point. So it's a dangerous slope, as morals and ethics can be cast by the wayside in favour of spouiting high-falutin philosophy that was really only intended for the beings living in jnana who understand this from that much deeper level.

The other problem on forums is when someone enters and just automatically assumes the role of teacher, without looking or listening to whomever is already there. This is the height of egocentric behaviour, and is rarely taken seriously. Any true teacher would never do that, unless invited.

"Listen up, everyone, I'm here, I'm here. I have valuable knowledge about life and everything else, and I'm right about everything. So listen up. Don't say anything back because it will be wrong, I say. I'm the only one that knows anything about anything."

Pretty tough not just to ignore it, but I feel obliged to give a more orthodox POV.

As for Siva as the 'decay' element of Brahman, for Saivites like me, Siva is all 3 aspects and more. In the mantra Na Ma Si Va Ya, there are 5 powers ... emanation, sustaining, dissolution, and two graces ... revealing, and concealing.

So for Saivites, Siva is God. The Supreme God, two manifest aspects (with form) and one unmanifest, termed Absolute Reality, or Parabrahman.

Anyone can say or think whatever the heck they want ... it's a free world, but most of what has been said here has little of no resemblance to Saivism.
 
Hi Senthil –
From a traditional Saivite's POV, there are several problems with this.
Thanks for the comments. I think anyone with a degree of actual insight sees this, whatever their particular religious inclination.
 
From a traditional Saivite's POV, there are several problems with this.

Firstly, some of it is spot on ... but only at the deeper Advaitic levels.

Simplistic advaita, or neo-Advaita espouses the end goal, and that alone. It has little or no practical teaching on how to get to that point. So it's a dangerous slope, as morals and ethics can be cast by the wayside in favour of spouiting high-falutin philosophy that was really only intended for the beings living in jnana who understand this from that much deeper level.

The other problem on forums is when someone enters and just automatically assumes the role of teacher, without looking or listening to whomever is already there. This is the height of egocentric behaviour, and is rarely taken seriously. Any true teacher would never do that, unless invited.

"Listen up, everyone, I'm here, I'm here. I have valuable knowledge about life and everything else, and I'm right about everything. So listen up. Don't say anything back because it will be wrong, I say. I'm the only one that knows anything about anything."

Pretty tough not just to ignore it, but I feel obliged to give a more orthodox POV.

As for Siva as the 'decay' element of Brahman, for Saivites like me, Siva is all 3 aspects and more. In the mantra Na Ma Si Va Ya, there are 5 powers ... emanation, sustaining, dissolution, and two graces ... revealing, and concealing.

So for Saivites, Siva is God. The Supreme God, two manifest aspects (with form) and one unmanifest, termed Absolute Reality, or Parabrahman.

Anyone can say or think whatever the heck they want ... it's a free world, but most of what has been said here has little of no resemblance to Saivism.
At least I can read this and understand that you have a POV. And get a little insight into what it is that you believe. I have no problems talking to someone like you, and could probably be very detailed with the discussion so that I could understand nearly all that you do in time. The other guy just keeps repeating that he's right and noone can tell because they aren't enlightened as he is. Thank you for teaching us all something about your belief with reasonable description.
 
I never understood Shiva...

Never appreciated Shiva...

Until I imagined the depth of shit we'd be in if there were not decay....

Shiva is the destroyer of maya.
Remember that world is "Samsara" in Sanskrit.

He is the liberator.
 
Firstly, some of it is spot on ... but only at the deeper Advaitic levels.

Om Shanti.

Simplistic advaita, or neo-Advaita espouses the end goal, and that alone. It has little or no practical teaching on how to get to that point. So it's a dangerous slope, as morals and ethics can be cast by the wayside in favour of spouiting high-falutin philosophy that was really only intended for the beings living in jnana who understand this from that much deeper level.

For me, this is why Brahma exists, with his Manu giving laws.
It is why Vishnu exists, to prepare you for the possibility that this can happen to you - especially through Krishna.

Perhaps this is where we differ? I see the whole pantheon as culminating in Shiva, I see the others as aspects of him.

For me, "towards union", or "unifying" is the ultimate moral or ethic... consider the consequences!

Can you think of a single law, moral or ethic that is divisive?

The very basis of a law is to unite around a standard.

The other problem on forums is when someone enters and just automatically assumes the role of teacher, without looking or listening to whomever is already there. This is the height of egocentric behaviour, and is rarely taken seriously. Any true teacher would never do that, unless invited.

I am not taking the position of teacher, I am just not presenting doubt.

For me, there is a huge difference!

The union of humility and arrogance is to be natural.

"Listen up, everyone, I'm here, I'm here. I have valuable knowledge about life and everything else, and I'm right about everything. So listen up. Don't say anything back because it will be wrong, I say. I'm the only one that knows anything about anything."

No, I invite criticism.

Perhaps this is the nature of my approach?

I want to find a union, hence membership on an interfaith forum. If you present divisiveness I will push against it, if you show understanding of what I am saying, I will celebrate it.

Ultimately, I am not here for my entertainment, I am here to share.

Pretty tough not just to ignore it, but I feel obliged to give a more orthodox POV.

Again, this is your prerogative.

It is another reason I choose this medium for sharing!

You can ignore, you can shrug it off, there is no need to become antagonistic.

Yet, it is there if you choose to engage.

I assure you I am not this way in everyday life, I simply enjoy what comes. I have specifically chosen an interfaith forum though because for me the highest attainment of inter-whatever is finding union.

For me, this is Yoga in action.

As for Siva as the 'decay' element of Brahman, for Saivites like me, Siva is all 3 aspects and more. In the mantra Na Ma Si Va Ya, there are 5 powers ... emanation, sustaining, dissolution, and two graces ... revealing, and concealing.

Yes, as Transcendant God, Supreme Being, he is all.

I have actually communicated this, Shakti comes from Shiva, Vishnu takes Shakti form in Mohini to become subordinate to Shiva, Brahma comes from Vishnu's navel. Krishna is the avatar and savior of Vishnu.

Thus, Shiva is the goal.

I also find his personal form interesting however, despite understanding his transcendental reality. I do not think we disagree.

So for Saivites, Siva is God. The Supreme God, two manifest aspects (with form) and one unmanifest, termed Absolute Reality, or Parabrahman.

Om shanti.

Anyone can say or think whatever the heck they want ... it's a free world, but most of what has been said here has little of no resemblance to Saivism.

I have not claimed to be a Saivite, to be fair.

I am a Yogi, and thus am devoted to Shiva as Adi Yogi.
 
For me, the nature of a sect is anti yoga.

It means you refuse to agree about something....

Both sides are wrong, where do they meet?

Yoga.
 
For me, by aligning each God with Shakti as I have shown, I separate them from Shiva.

I cannot even make Brahma and Brahman distinct, they are too similar.

Since Shakti has come from Shiva, maybe Brahma/n means creator or source?

Otherwise I do not much care about the whole word other than to say it is not Shiva.

It is not the First Union, Adi Yogi.
 
For me, the other Gods are responsible for various aspects of experience, the energetic expression of life.

Shiva is the transcendent consciousness of that.

Shakti is the energy of Shiva's desire.

The play is to please Shiva.

There are other depictions where Shiva has made it impossible for either Brahma or Vishnu to claim supremecy, thus showing his own supremecy.

These are useful stories in clarification.

Shiva is the personification of Union.
Shiva is that original union before separation.

Shiva is the union of manifest and unmanifest.

Om shanti.
 
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