On What are your Religious Beliefs Based?

Aupmanyav said:
Or perhaps they were words of wise men to maintain a peaceful and prosperous society. I do not know if they really believed in Gods or not.
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Well, I don't believe in gods.
 
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Shibolet said:
What's the difference? What one implies, most the time has no relevance to the theme under discussion. Therefore, season is open to irrelevant comments.
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The difference is that when someone posts in responds to someone else, it might not be relevant to the topic of the thread but to post. If you are saying, here and now, that you find no need to actually continue a discussion along a common thread but jump in and out according to your whim of the moment, that would explain so much and would do much to solidify my attitude to our future exchanges.
 
Namaste Jesus said:
Now, I'm not talking about what you believe, how you believe, why you believe or even if you believe. Just what that belief structure is based on and what has influenced you to believe as you do. Is it something you've read? Something you've heard? Something you've experienced or...?
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I'm not fully certain I understand the question. I'll proceed believing I do understand...

I have "sensed" a "something" since I was a very young child. In the culture I was raised, I was exposed to various factions of Christianity...mostly various non-denominational Protestant churches, with a smattering of the Catholic flavor as well. In that exposure I was told, and I want to believe, that I was able to "touch" that "something," infrequently and imperfectly...but it seemed possible.

As I grew older, a lot of the stories used to teach how to touch that something didn't make logical sense anymore...there were too many outside contradictions. But the underlying experiential reality remained, in spite of the stories no longer making sense. To be clear, the stories while not logical, pretty obviously taught ways to behave in an acceptable manner towards others...so even though the stories were not logical, they were still of great value. They just didn't further my desire to touch that something like they used to, almost like I had (sort of) outgrown them, that the stories while still important, weren't important in the same way they used to be. (if that makes any sense?) As I began to research other faiths, I pretty well came to similar conclusions with each...the stories were not worthless, but they were not the total package and didn't really assist in my longing to touch that something.

As a child, with my mind unclouded by symbolic language and worries of day to day living, it seemed so easy to simply reach out and touch that something...it was always there. As I went to school and learned and crammed my head full of facts and figures that everyone seemed to demand of me, that ability was pushed to the side, into a far corner, almost lost and forgotten...but I never forgot. Little by little I am digging my way back through the mess in my mind trying to find again that ability that I had so strongly as a child.

I hope that answers your question, presuming I even understand it.
 
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Devils' Advocate said:
The belief structure of any given individual is based on self identification. No matter in what form the input comes, the end result comes down to a personal decision on what one chooses to believe.
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May I presume you are approaching from a position of non-belief?

As an adult with access to other cultures, I can agree, but even back a scant 100 years you couldn't make this generality as a statement of fact.

Until recently, the vast majority of people had the option of the primary belief they were born into, or rejection of that belief...and often the second option was met with the penalty of death, so it really wasn't an option to begin with. People became what they were born into...religion was enmeshed intimately into culture and politics.

It is really difficult to expect a person, even from just two generations ago, to "switch" to some religion that was either scarcely available or socially incompatible. Few Christians in China (pre-Mao), for example, and even then what passed as Christianity was often diametrically at odds with the rest of Christianity (and as a result it generally failed, miserably). Wouldn't expect a South Seas Islander to "switch" to Yoruba either, or Asatrau for that matter...extreme, but to make the point, as these are essentially unavailable teachings and / or they are socially incompatible with the existing culture.
 
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Shibolet said:
Isaiah said that to speak the truth, one must do it according to the Law and the Prophets. Could he be wrong? Oh yes, for you and for a Christian, it is natural that Isaiah could be wrong. So, what are we supposed to do, stop our discussions and go home? I don't think so. If we all think the same, there is no learning. Controversy is the best method to learn.
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Moving beyond the discriminating stereotypes, what makes you think Isaiah is of no value to *any* Christians? Frankly I look forward to the promises of Isaiah, when "the lion shall lay down with the lamb, and a little child shall lead them both."

So I must ask...which Law? Levitical, or Noahide?
 
In summary, I probably should have left this thread alone, or at least read it before I tried to respond.

I see so many fallacies of logic, and so much "do as I say, not as I do" reasoning, that the entire conversation is really meaningless noise, and nothing more.
 
juantoo3 said:
May I presume you are approaching from a position of non-belief?
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Nonbelief in Gods as separate, sentient entities - yes. Belief in a nonsentient, not separated Living Force that includes all of the Universe and everything in it, including every one of us - that is my belief. Deist.

juantoo3 said:
Until recently, the vast majority of people had the option of the primary belief they were born into, or rejection of that belief.
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I do not disagree with that - it seems besides the point though. The thread is 'On what are your religious beliefs based' (today), not a hundred years ago.
 
Devils' Advocate said:
Nonbelief in Gods as separate, sentient entities - yes. Belief in a nonsentient, not separated Living Force that includes all of the Universe and everything in it, including every one of us - that is my belief. Deist.
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Fair enough, but that worldview is shared far beyond Deism. I would say it (with minor adjustment) is an essential underlying component of animism, the oldest religion on the planet.

I do not disagree with that - it seems besides the point though. The thread is 'On what are your religious beliefs based' (today), not a hundred years ago.
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I brought it up because it is still totally relevant in certain cultures. It is mistaken to think that everyone is travelling on the same path at the same speed. While I can agree when speaking of someone in a first world country (US, Europe, Australia, Japan), it would be mistaken to think the same of someone in Sub-Saharan Africa or Outer Mongolia. So while my statement isn't *as* relevant as it used to be, and arguably is becoming less so every day, it is still significant and needs to be considered. ;)
 
A Cup Of Tea said:
The difference is that when someone posts in responds to someone else, it might not be relevant to the topic of the thread but to post. If you are saying, here and now, that you find no need to actually continue a discussion along a common thread but jump in and out according to your whim of the moment, that would explain so much and would do much to solidify my attitude to our future exchanges.
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You have all the right in the world to feel free about that and any thing else.
 
juantoo3 said:
Moving beyond the discriminating stereotypes, what makes you think Isaiah is of no value to *any* Christians? Frankly I look forward to the promises of Isaiah, when "the lion shall lay down with the lamb, and a little child shall lead them both."

So I must ask...which Law? Levitical, or Noahide?
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Here, I am of the same voice with Jesus who said that the Law Isaiah was referring to is the Law of Moses. (Luke 16:29-31) My thought about being not Isaiah much of a value to Christians is their use of what he said would point to Jesus and not to Israel.
 
juantoo3 said:
In summary, I probably should have left this thread alone, or at least read it before I tried to respond.

I see so many fallacies of logic, and so much "do as I say, not as I do" reasoning, that the entire conversation is really meaningless noise, and nothing more.
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Indeed, that would be the thing to do. Please, would you indicate where you got the quote above about Isaiah?
 
Namaste Jesus said:
Now, I'm not talking about what you believe, how you believe, why you believe or even if you believe. Just what that belief structure is based on and what has influenced you to believe as you do. Is it something you've read? Something you've heard? Something you've experienced or...?

For me personally I've always been a very spiritual person. For lack of a better term, I've always had a sort of sixth sense about things. My religious beliefs are diverse to say the least and are primarily based on personal experience. That is, things I've done, things I've seen.

My second source of inspiration comes from conclusions I've drawn from studying both Christian and Hindu scripture as well as a variety of other religious and non-religious texts.

Lastly, my religious beliefs have been influenced by a number of spiritual mentors over the years. Some were devout men of the cloth, while others were just everyday folks with keen spiritual insight.

How about you?
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I'm not sure I have any beliefs, as such, anymore. I have educated myself in many religious traditions, read the mystics and transpersonal philosophies, and received a degree in psychological science so I understand the scientific view as well. It feels funny not to have any beliefs anymore, but it is also freeing as well. I do have hopes, aspirations, and a sense of awe at a universe that just might turn out to be more than what we believe and think it is. So I guess in place of beliefs or certainties, there is a restful place of accepting the mystery inside me, like a placeholder for what might be. Not a well thought out system perhaps, but at least it's sincere :)
 
Namaste Jesus said:
For me personally I've always been a very spiritual person. For lack of a better term, I've always had a sort of sixth sense about things. My religious beliefs are diverse to say the least and are primarily based on personal experience. That is, things I've done, things I've seen.
How about you?
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I wouldn't say that what I've had is a sixth sense, but more like moments of clarity, where it felt obvious that this was the work of a higher power.
 
juantoo3 said:
No probs...you being Jewish and all, I figured you were familiar with all of Isaiah. Great read, isn't it?
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Yes, it is but, there is nothing in Isaiah as a reference to Jesus but only according to Christian preconceived notions.
 
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