my 'baggage' with Sunday School and Preachers...

Never understood the yelling, but only encountered it while flipping channels, and at a couple of funerals. Now that was some sad stuff. (double meaning intended)
 
stranger said:
Long story short
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I can't imagine. I've heard stories before.. I've seen a modecum of fire and brimstone...more than enough for me...I don't know if I could attend a revival..even in just educational mode...
Senthil said:
Vacations were for going barefoot
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My kids went with their cousins to VBC a few times...I'm gonna ask them what they thought of it/think of it 10-15 years later.
Namaste Jesus said:
Had that been my first exposure to Christianity
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tis the scary part isn't it.
 
I never had a problem with the fire and brimstone preachers at first. It seemed that what I had read of the OT made the preacher's words reasonable. Then when I got older I started reading the context in which the verses they were using were used in text. Rarely would possibly explain how many times I found what they were preaching and what was in the text similar, much less the same. Then I started to notice their jumping a couple verses from Mark, then a few from Hebrews, and usually a couple from Revelations and pretending like they were right next to each other in the Bible. Obviously from other posts you can see where that all led me in the end.
 
BigJoeNobody said:
I never had a problem with the fire and brimstone preachers at first. It seemed that what I had read of the OT made the preacher's words reasonable. Then when I got older I started reading the context in which the verses they were using were used in text. Rarely would possibly explain how many times I found what they were preaching and what was in the text similar, much less the same. Then I started to notice their jumping a couple verses from Mark, then a few from Hebrews, and usually a couple from Revelations and pretending like they were right next to each other in the Bible. Obviously from other posts you can see where that all led me in the end.
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I wish those who listen to those who read/preach the Quran/Hadiths similarly to foment radicals would develop the same understanding
 
wil said:
I wish those who listen to those who read/preach the Quran/Hadiths similarly to foment radicals would develop the same understanding
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The first command Angel Jabril gave to Mouhammed (PBUH) was to read. It seems many missed the point of this command. Instead they listen to people who quote parts without developing the whole understanding. It is in fact common amongst many "Radical" Muslims.
 
As a child I had sunday school teachers who: used felt props, played the accordion, played the violin, used ventriloquism and who also did skits and films.

Outside Sunday School I was probably one of the last students in the USA to be spanked by a teacher. Lucky me!
 
Devils' Advocate said:
The Koran wasn't written down until long after Mohammed rode to heaven. Isn't that right?
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Pieces were recorded as they were revealed. (I want to specify that I personally do not know where evidence of this lies as I do not read arabic, but I have been assured that it is available) As the story goes, Mouhammed (PBUH) began receiving revelation and upon receiving a piece of the Quran he called scribes to write it down. He would then teach it to his companions and anyone who came by that the verse applied to, however this was verbal. After his death his companions called all those who held a piece to bring their piece. The pieces would not be accepted without 2 witnesses (2 people holding Identical writings). They were then arranged per 1 of the companion's recitation, however 1 aya was missing. The next companion then recited to the same conclusion, and so on. A man walked in with an aya that matched the missing verse and when he was asked where his witness is he called upon the companions as they witnessed him receiving the writing from Mouhammed (PBUH). They confirmed. and the piece was placed into its spot. from this 7 (if memory serves me correct) copies were made. They were checked individually by each of the companions and were confirmed accurate. from each of those a number were created (with the same scrupulous Quality checks). The first edition and the 7 first copies were lost later to fires, along with many of the 2nd copies, however later there were many copies of the 2nd generation and in that the chain was established and methods for copying were completed.

The biggest argument outside of Islam about the Quran is that all the copies that did not conform were burned. Which is partially true. people had made many copies that were unregulated. during the call for the peices the ones that did not have another exact match nor witnesses were burned to keep corruption from getting into the Quran. These writings didn't line up with the recitations either. Sure there is an argument for possible intrusion and addition, but then you would be accusing the companions of changing the words they believed came directly from Allah and risking a grave sin for doing so.

wil said:
twas my understanding... is there thought that he learned to read and write after or during the dictation of the Quran?
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Scholars are mixed on this. There are many Hadith that show he learned to write (at least his name and Allah). Some scholars say he learned to read while receiving the Quran, with Allah's help. I don't think either makes any difference, they both agree that he could not read when first being tapped as a Prophet.
 
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Quran was mainly recorded by memory during Muhammad's time til today. After every revelation scribes used to memorize and write it down on bones and leaves etc. Its said that in the last year of Muhammad's life (after revelation was finished) he recited the complete version in Traweeh prayers. In the first or second year after his death, a written copy was made, by the testimony of two people, written down by the third who was a scribe in Muhammad's days, and had memorised part or whole of Quran himself. 20-30 years later when islam reached Iran and Caucuses, Uthman had 5 new copy made from the orignal with added dots and vovels for non arabs which were send to four corners of the empire. Since the unofficial, undotted, unvovelized versions were causing trouble in non-arab regions, they were ordered to be burnt all over the empire, and all new copies were supposed to be made of Uthman's dotted, vovelised version.

All the copies werent burnt obviously, and some of them are available still today. And they obviously vary from Uthman's version, because firstly they dont have dots and vovels. A non arab wont be able to read them. And secondly a lot of them are incomplete personal collections that people wrote for themselves.
 
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