Death is an illusion

otherbrother said:
Powessy said this: “I have had thousands of out of body experiences and astral experiences .,,”
Today on Palm Sunday our Sunday School class reviewed a book about the Bible New Testament book of John, specifically the account of the tomb stone being rolled away and the eventual discovery of the resurrected JC. My take on the whole story is that it symbolizes a new way to be in our physical selves, in our bodies. The tomb is the mere body or self overly nailed to, attached to, dependent on, the material aspect of our being. The gross, high resistance, entropy-bound, flesh container is like a tomb of the True Self if oneself identifies too much with it. The spirit or energy self (astral body?) must leave and come back in an energized/animated and spiritually transformed version if one’s physical existence is to be more than a prison or tomb or closed off box unable to be made vital by God energy.
So I began to wonder, should our church teach us astral projection techniques? And then I thought about the risk of confusion and getting lost. After that, though, I realized that our spirits move outside the tomb in baby steps that resemble astral projection and may be preparatory to it. I also agree partially with the participant here in the forum who focuses on Brahman and says my interest in subtle energy leads to being wooed into superstition associated with “spirituality.” Then I realized this not to be so IF one does not cling to external projections of the energy aspect of whole self or True Self, and when one does not mentally push oneself away from Divine Other by assuming duality or mutual exclusion, as opposed to understanding that Divine Other and True Self are one and the same at the deepest level of seeing and originating one’s ongoing physical existence/being. If we operate from a sufficiently deep zone, God is with us. Which aligns with the notion that intentionality, a realization that one’s own mind CHOOSES the spiritual, energetic, quantum entangled, ways operating or being in a material form prevents woo/superstition. In this (mindful) way, the spirituality is not a magical something out there that we passively hope to enter in or swoop down and save us.
Perhaps the baby steps to astral projection and remote viewing would be to practice being mindful of the subtle energy flow going on as we love someone, others. Self expands beyond its previous borders, leaves to some degree its tomb, enlarges its aura. At the same time we practice transcending body, in big or small ways (preferably building up gradually to the big ways), we are being spiritually transformed into a more porous self, an ego transcending self. Even experiencing God’s presence is an intentional exercise of one’s own spirit, even though it is temporarily experienced as an other. It is only an other because our clinging to physical reality has estranged ourselves from our own spirit which is seamlessly connected to God. Experiencing God’s presence then is perhaps a baby step toward intentional astral projection. Krishnamerti’s (sp?) “expansiveness” comes to mind.
Click to expand...
Most religions have enough sense to realize that Astral Projection and Remote viewing is utter nonsense.
 
powessy said:
Yes here, here and here. How do you define (mental) here, as we can figure things out? See there is a problem as universes go. Let me see how to say this.... We will keep losing time until we become nothing here. Imagine the universe an hour glass and in the top is everything here in this universe we can see. The bottom of the hour glass is everything not here in the top of the hour glass(I say nothing here). The sand in the lower half of the hour glass must run completely out of time before it can become something again. The problem is how can we figure ourselves out in the end of time when no time remains. Billions of years from now who cares right, well that is why god got involved. In the end of time minds remain lit up until they too start to fall into ("absolutely nothing here figure absolutely nothing out"). This is why god taught nothing inside of himself his desire was to find away that no thing would ever become nothing here again. He could allow all yourselves to become yourselves again and to never have to become nothing again.

Just more thoughts about thoughts. Thank you

powessy
Click to expand...
As a stock worker for a year after my retirement, I noticed an analogy for time. The shelves that customers got products from could only hold so much, so additional products were placed up high. The retail shelves did not have enough capacity
wil said:
I think As we age we start reaching for any branch to keep us from falling off the cliff to the unknown. In that alone I am a tad envious of all the folks that think they know...and if there weren't so many outcomes that folks are positive of... I might be inclined to grab that branch too.

But for me....I just figure when the time comes I'll buckle up for the ride!
Click to expand...
The Tibetan Book of the Dead advocates preparation in order to make the transition smoother and avoid extra reincarnations/wandering. At the very least, it would be nice to end on a peaceful note instead of in mid scream or kick
 
otherbrother said:
As a stock worker for a year after my retirement, I noticed an analogy for time. The shelves that customers got products from could only hold so much, so additional products were placed up high. The retail shelves did not have enough capacity
Click to expand...
I accidentally prematurely posted the above.
What I imagined was that the upper shelves were analogous to a different dimension that had greater capacity than the retail shelves, our physical reality. The effect of transition from greater to lesser is a pushing forward, time. Products come and go on the lower shelves—time
 
otherbrother said:
I personally have only had two astral projection experiences in the wake state, and one of those was actually in a semi-awake state following a nap. The other astral projection occurred during an intense emotional state. One vision occurred also during an intense emotional state, and walking went on within that vision (astral projection that I was not aware of consciously?). One other vision followed deep meditation. I saw a seed going across seasons, time traveling instead of moving in space.
But I have had MANY experiences in my dreams that suggested I was astrally projecting while in the thin-veil dream state.
Click to expand...
Astral projecting is done by minds in many ways. I do not believe that you can teach astral projection, without understanding how they are teaching you first. A mind normally will teach itself inside of you to become you to astral project. The mind then teaches you inside of itself and controls the imagery. Most astral projections/minds do not allow you to physically move, they move for you. It takes time for a mind to find time to teach you anything, This means your thoughts that have more time will be the one they will ask about or try to figure out. This makes sense as to why we figure things out when we are on the precipice of time, and why we find answers that didn't find time before. Out of body experiences you can move and they do not become themselves inside of you. Obes can also happen within minds on your mind. In meditation I open my eyes and the mind moves up to me another mind/me/I will break of and move directly up to my face and will start to form time within it to teach me things, depending on the problem or thought is how long it might take to figure something out.

powessy
 
otherbrother said:
As a stock worker for a year after my retirement, I noticed an analogy for time. The shelves that customers got products from could only hold so much, so additional products were placed up high. The retail shelves did not have enough capacity

The Tibetan Book of the Dead advocates preparation in order to make the transition smoother and avoid extra reincarnations/wandering. At the very least, it would be nice to end on a peaceful note instead of in mid scream or kick
Click to expand...
The tibetan did not hold the belief that all will be done for them, interesting. The whole thought about the hour glass comes from my constant problem with figuring things out the bottle neck that forms. There are millions of species of animal/insect/plant and then you have all the elements that have to be figured out, here there and everywhere else. The upper part of the hour glass is yourself not yet inside of yourself and the lower part is yourself everything you have already figured out. To see yourself not inside of yourself means I need to figure things out for there is a bottle neck and things can get real active within my mind.

powessy
 
Last edited:
powessy said:
Astral projecting is done by minds in many ways.
Click to expand...
I've heard of astral projection for a long time, of course. I have only cursory knowledge of it.
There is this contemporary phenomenon, if you can call it that, is something called "reality shifting"
Apparently some people believe they can shift from this world into other parallel worlds or something like that.
thecgapress.cga.school

What Is Reality Shifting? - The CGA Press

Reality shifting, a concept which began trending on TikTok in 2020, has recently taken the internet by storm. What way better to escape lockdown than to travel to a whole new reality with brain power alone? What is reality shifting? Shifting is described as the act of transferring your...
thecgapress.cga.school
There's quite a lot on reddit too (yeah, reddit) https://www.reddit.com/r/realityshifting/

I wonder how much this differs from astral projection? If indeed there is any reality TO reality shifting.
 
Alif Balaam Yashin said:
Most religions have enough sense to realize that Astral Projection and Remote viewing is utter nonsense.
Click to expand...
The one I had after meditation, then napping, then waking up, involved seeing back into the windshield of the car I was in. Since I was in the drowsy state (hypnogogic) I could have thought it was imaginary, but the intense “knitting” sensation as my astral body reentered the right side of my physical body convinced me that it was a real energy-related phenomenon instead of a dream carried over into the wake state.
 
otherbrother said:
The one I had after meditation, then napping, then waking up, involved seeing back into the windshield of the car I was in. Since I was in the drowsy state (hypnogogic) I could have thought it was imaginary, but the intense “knitting” sensation as my astral body reentered the right side of my physical body convinced me that it was a real energy-related phenomenon instead of a dream carried over into the wake state.
Click to expand...
Besides, most religion is not spiritual, but more moralistic. And even that part of religion that does emphasize spirituality is more focused on optimal wholeness than mastery of spiritual practices or spiritism as a means to being more “spiritual.”
 
otherbrother said:
The one I had after meditation, then napping, then waking up, involved seeing back into the windshield of the car I was in. Since I was in the drowsy state (hypnogogic) I could have thought it was imaginary, but the intense “knitting” sensation as my astral body reentered the right side of my physical body convinced me that it was a real energy-related phenomenon instead of a dream carried over into the wake state.
Click to expand...
Expectations and beliefs heavily influence the brain's interpretation of sensory information. In the case of astral projection, strong beliefs or expectations about leaving the body and perceiving the environment without physical senses shape how the brain constructs these experiences. During altered states of consciousness, such as meditation or trance-like states. Areas of the brain involved in self-awareness and sensory processing create altered patterns, contributing to the sense of disembodiment or separation from the physical body.

Any interruption or abnormal integration within the corticothalamic networking disrupts space, time, location, and self. When the temporal and parietal lobes are disrupted, this causes an experience of dislocation of the “self” from the physical body—i.e., an OBE. The Posterior Parietal Cortex when distorted creates feelings of “floating” or “being elsewhere.

All of these dysfunctions combine to create hallucinations of Out-of-Body experiences and/or Astral Travel.
 
Alif Balaam Yashin said:
Expectations and beliefs heavily influence the brain's interpretation of sensory information. In the case of astral projection, strong beliefs or expectations about leaving the body and perceiving the environment without physical senses shape how the brain constructs these experiences. During altered states of consciousness, such as meditation or trance-like states. Areas of the brain involved in self-awareness and sensory processing create altered patterns, contributing to the sense of disembodiment or separation from the physical body.

Any interruption or abnormal integration within the corticothalamic networking disrupts space, time, location, and self. When the temporal and parietal lobes are disrupted, this causes an experience of dislocation of the “self” from the physical body—i.e., an OBE. The Posterior Parietal Cortex when distorted creates feelings of “floating” or “being elsewhere.

All of these dysfunctions combine to create hallucinations of Out-of-Body experiences and/or Astral Travel.
Click to expand...
When I searched the internet with the following question: “Is there any truth to the book, The Field?”:
Response: “Yes, Lynne McTaggart's book, "The Field: The Quest for the Secret Force of the Universe," explores ideas and research that align with some aspects of quantum physics and the concept of interconnectedness, according to Amazon.com. While some aspects might be considered more speculative, the book delves into research on intention, Zero Point Field (ZPF), and the potential influence of a universal field on our lives, according to Amazon.com.

In her book she reports science on remote viewing. There are some cases where people are able to report details of remote places in a way that goes beyond chance guessing. Her main conclusion of overall evidence of an underlying interconnected field in reality would explain how remote viewing is possible (via mental interaction with the Field).
Granted, seeing remotely is not a movement of a whole body, but is it a projection of astral eyeballs?
Not to mention that I have had a lot of premonitory dreams, a few of which were way too specific and unexpected to be mere coincidence. Not only must there be a Field that allows for some transcendence of space (or at least “simple location”), but it must either participate directly in a transcendence of time or connects to some other reality (presumably deeper within) that transcends time.
One neuroscientist found that animals who had their brains scrambled and large swaths removed were still able to show evidence of remembering. The scientist, Pembrick (sp?), developed a theory that some memories are stored in a natural field outside or beyond the brain, like computer data stored on the “Cloud.”
 
Last edited:
otherbrother said:
When I searched the internet with the following question: “Is there any truth to the book, The Field?”:
Response: “Yes, Lynne McTaggart's book, "The Field: The Quest for the Secret Force of the Universe," explores ideas and research that align with some aspects of quantum physics and the concept of interconnectedness, according to Amazon.com. While some aspects might be considered more speculative, the book delves into research on intention, Zero Point Field (ZPF), and the potential influence of a universal field on our lives, according to Amazon.com.

In her book she reports science on remote viewing. There are some cases where people are able to report details of remote places in a way that goes beyond chance guessing. Her main conclusion of overall evidence of an underlying interconnected field in reality would explain how remote viewing is possible (via mental interaction with the Field).
Granted, seeing remotely is not a movement of a whole body, but is it a projection of astral eyeballs?
Not to mention that I have had a lot of premonitory dreams, a few of which were way too specific and unexpected to be mere coincidence. Not only must there be a Field that allows for some transcendence of space (or at least “simple location”), but it must either participate directly in a transcendence of time or connects to some other reality (presumably deeper within) that transcends time.
One neuroscientist found that animals who had their brains scrambled and large swaths removed were still able to show evidence of remembering. The scientist, Pembrick (sp?), developed a theory that some memories are stored in a natural field outside or beyond the brain, like computer data stored on the “Cloud.”
Click to expand...
I want to explain something here that I believe many people don't understand about the astral or veil. Why is remote viewing and astral projecting seen as not reliable? Minds teach and are responsible for your experiences, they say we have mitochondria for this, minds that are doing nothing here. You experience these things when you are at rest not in motion. So why is it so hard to figure things out using remote viewing or astral projecting, because of time and how time and yourselves are formed. A yourself without time is only a clear object it has no time in it completely translucent to look at. The time of a basket ball lets say, is not nothing here yet so they will make other basket balls become it and even use time left over to fill in the basket ball just to teach you something. My dreams/experiences are full visual, full color, and fully formed except for areas that they did not find enough time to fill it in. I have seen minds turn over the imagery in mere moments from one scene to another. I can separate self with my mitochondria minds and also move outside of my brain to still figure things out. Finding time is there ability to teach you things and to figure things out, it is also our ability to teach them things and to use when this lifetime is over.

Powessy

powessy
 
otherbrother said:
When I searched the internet with the following question: “Is there any truth to the book, The Field?”:
Response: “Yes, Lynne McTaggart's book, "The Field: The Quest for the Secret Force of the Universe," explores ideas and research that align with some aspects of quantum physics and the concept of interconnectedness, according to Amazon.com. While some aspects might be considered more speculative, the book delves into research on intention, Zero Point Field (ZPF), and the potential influence of a universal field on our lives, according to Amazon.com.

In her book she reports science on remote viewing. There are some cases where people are able to report details of remote places in a way that goes beyond chance guessing. Her main conclusion of overall evidence of an underlying interconnected field in reality would explain how remote viewing is possible (via mental interaction with the Field).
Granted, seeing remotely is not a movement of a whole body, but is it a projection of astral eyeballs?
Not to mention that I have had a lot of premonitory dreams, a few of which were way too specific and unexpected to be mere coincidence. Not only must there be a Field that allows for some transcendence of space (or at least “simple location”), but it must either participate directly in a transcendence of time or connects to some other reality (presumably deeper within) that transcends time.
One neuroscientist found that animals who had their brains scrambled and large swaths removed were still able to show evidence of remembering. The scientist, Pembrick (sp?), developed a theory that some memories are stored in a natural field outside or beyond the brain, like computer data stored on the “Cloud.”
Click to expand...
Lynne McTaggart is an author, nothing more. I have a BSc in Neurotheology . . .
 
The OP posits the idea: Death is an Illusion.

I would suggest that the actuality of death is something that lies within the eschaton, and on this side of the Chinvat Bridge remains a mystery to us.

I would rather posit the idea: Life (as it is lived today) is an Illusion.

This from a substack post of David Bentley Hart:

"... as a species, we have a remarkable gift for loneliness. So deep is our longing for communion with the world about us that nothing can entirely satisfy it, or even quell it for very long, so long as we suspect any dimension of reality might be indifferent to our overtures or incapable of addressing us in turn. Until very recently, of course, it scarcely occurred to us that such a thing was even possible. For most of our history, our instinct had been to view all of cosmic nature as the residence of mysterious and vital intelligences—gods and nymphs, daemons and elves, phantoms and goblins, and every other kind of nature spirit or preternatural agency—not because we were victims of the “pathetic fallacy,” and not because our evolutionarily engineered “intentional stance” had populated our landscape with personable mirages, but only because our nature dictates that we can never be at home in a world that does not speak. This is largely why we delight in fables about talking animals, and in stories that infuse inanimate objects with consciousness and personality, and in any other kind of tale that tells us there is a subjective depth in all things that knows us as we would wish to be known. Our proper habitat is an enchanted world, charged with mana or filled with fairies or kami, where we can always find places of encounter with immortal (or at least longaevous) powers; and in the absence of those numinous or genial presences we feel abandoned, and very much alone.

It is, however, only in the modern age—having done so much to drive those presences away, and to reduce the world to something intrinsically impersonal and dead—that we have really discovered how profound that loneliness can be. The history of disenchantment has been the history of our own long, ever deepening self-exile. So, naturally, no longer believing that the world hears us or speaks to us, we find ourselves looking elsewhere for those presences. We call out to the stars and scan the skies with enormous radio telescopes, searching for the faintest whisper of a response. We try to convince ourselves that our machines might become sentient. We dream of creating a virtual reality responsive to our needs in a way that the now spiritually evacuated world around us no longer seems to be. Even among many analytic philosophers, whose entire intellectual mission is to think as boringly about everything as humanly possible, perhaps the most fashionable theory of mind at present is panpsychism, which tells us that the material world may yet be in some sense full of life and intelligence after all."
 
Thomas said:
I would rather posit the idea: Life (as it is lived today) is an Illusion.
Click to expand...
I don't deny the premise, while I have issues believing we are living in a computer simulation or dream....I am "agnostic" about it as well.

But I do wanna discuss/explore "as it is lived today".

If today references time, and implies there was a time when it wasn't an illusion.
 
Thomas said:
The OP posits the idea: Death is an Illusion.

I would suggest that the actuality of death is something that lies within the eschaton, and on this side of the Chinvat Bridge remains a mystery to us.

I would rather posit the idea: Life (as it is lived today) is an Illusion.

This from a substack post of David Bentley Hart:

"... as a species, we have a remarkable gift for loneliness. So deep is our longing for communion with the world about us that nothing can entirely satisfy it, or even quell it for very long, so long as we suspect any dimension of reality might be indifferent to our overtures or incapable of addressing us in turn. Until very recently, of course, it scarcely occurred to us that such a thing was even possible. For most of our history, our instinct had been to view all of cosmic nature as the residence of mysterious and vital intelligences—gods and nymphs, daemons and elves, phantoms and goblins, and every other kind of nature spirit or preternatural agency—not because we were victims of the “pathetic fallacy,” and not because our evolutionarily engineered “intentional stance” had populated our landscape with personable mirages, but only because our nature dictates that we can never be at home in a world that does not speak. This is largely why we delight in fables about talking animals, and in stories that infuse inanimate objects with consciousness and personality, and in any other kind of tale that tells us there is a subjective depth in all things that knows us as we would wish to be known. Our proper habitat is an enchanted world, charged with mana or filled with fairies or kami, where we can always find places of encounter with immortal (or at least longaevous) powers; and in the absence of those numinous or genial presences we feel abandoned, and very much alone.

It is, however, only in the modern age—having done so much to drive those presences away, and to reduce the world to something intrinsically impersonal and dead—that we have really discovered how profound that loneliness can be. The history of disenchantment has been the history of our own long, ever deepening self-exile. So, naturally, no longer believing that the world hears us or speaks to us, we find ourselves looking elsewhere for those presences. We call out to the stars and scan the skies with enormous radio telescopes, searching for the faintest whisper of a response. We try to convince ourselves that our machines might become sentient. We dream of creating a virtual reality responsive to our needs in a way that the now spiritually evacuated world around us no longer seems to be. Even among many analytic philosophers, whose entire intellectual mission is to think as boringly about everything as humanly possible, perhaps the most fashionable theory of mind at present is panpsychism, which tells us that the material world may yet be in some sense full of life and intelligence after all."
Click to expand...
"Life (as it is lived today) is an Illusion"
Yes & No & Yes LOL

In the Objective Universe, a house is just a structure made of materials like wood, stone, and metal, arranged in a certain way to stay standing and keep out the elements. It's just atoms, arranged logically. But when people interact with that house — by living in it, decorating it, remembering it — they give it meaning. It becomes a home, a memory, a symbol of childhood, a haunted place, etc. These meanings are not in the Objective Universe — they exist in the Subjective Universe of the individuals. .

Because of this, the house now also exists in multiple personal realities. Each person has their own version of the house in their mind — with memories, feelings, and associations tied to it. Even if the physical house is destroyed — the house still lives on in people's minds and memories. Subjective Universes outlive the Objective Universe.

Reality is what we perceive to be real, there is no underlying true reality that exists independently of perception. The quantum double slit experiment is a great example of how individual consciousness and the objective universe are intertwined. One potential revelation of this experience is that “the observer creates their reality.”

The only way we are capable of knowing reality is through the mediation of our consciousness - that is, subjectively. We experience our own consciousness directly, but we cannot directly experience the consciousness of someone else. We can only infer their consciousness from their behaviors. Conceptual thought begins from the pure, unsupported apprehension of one’s conscious self as an existential reality: the ba of ancient Egypt, the psyche of the Greeks, the Golden Flower of the Tao.
 
TheLightWithin said:
The thing I asked earlier (#146) about so-called reality shifting - is that another form of astral projection or something else? Or a hoax?
Does anybody know?
Click to expand...
Me and my wife's third pregnancy was monoamniotic twins. The pregnancy was a high risk pregnancy so we were sent to a specialist to overlook her progress. A normal delivery doctor can perform level three ultrasounds, our doctor could do level four ultrasounds. Do you know what the difference was, nothing at all only the difference in the procedure is the doctor that was performing it. To me an astral projection is just an astral projection, changing the name does not change the experience just because some one has done it more times. the thing with the astral is it will teach you what ever it is you are trying to figure out, no matter if it is right or wrong. Those people are most likely the best reality shifters ever to reality shift in the history of reality shifting if that is what they think. The images found in a astral experience should be taken with a grain of salt they have as much of a time figuring us out as we have figuring them out.

There are minds that will teach you things that "make sense" to everyone like religion.
There are minds that teach you things about anything that "makes sense" to you, your family and friends and your body/self.
There are minds that teach you things that make "no sense" to anyone, these are like thoughts you have about the world or the universe.
There are minds that teach you things that make "no sense" to you, this is like questions you have about yourself, soul body, mind.
Minds can not teach you anything unless you try to figure it out first.

powessy
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top