Salome – sylph or slut?

Thomas

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Here's a nugget I picked up from a substack:

Mark 6:21-28
"And when a convenient day was come, Herod made a supper for his birthday, for the princes, and tribunes, and chief men of Galilee. And when the daughter of the same Herodias had come in, and had danced, and pleased Herod, and them that were at table with him, the king said to the damsel: Ask of me what thou wilt, and I will give it thee. And he swore to her: Whatsoever thou shalt ask I will give thee, though it be the half of my kingdom. Who when she was gone out, said to her mother, What shall I ask? But she said: The head of John the Baptist. And when she was come in immediately with haste to the king, she asked, saying: I will that forthwith thou give me in a dish, the head of John the Baptist. And the king was struck sad. Yet because of his oath, and because of them that were with him at table, he would not displease her: But sending an executioner, he commanded that his head should be brought in a dish. And he beheaded him in the prison, and brought his head in a dish: and gave it to the damsel, and the damsel gave it to her mother."

Context: John was in prison because Herodias had been the wife of Herod's half-brother, and John had accused him of transgressing the Law. Herodias was none too pleased. Anyway ...

The film Jesus of Nazareth (1977) presents a weak and louche Herod stirred to lust by Salome’s lascivious dance.


Oscar Wilde’s Salome goes even further, lewd and vicious – her dance a vehicle for her revenge on John because he resisted her unwelcome advances – a horrified Herod commands his guards to kill her by crushing her with their shields.

So at best Salome is a nubile temptress, at worst a sexual predator with murder in mind.

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What the common, popular and somewhat salacious accounts overlook is the reference to the daughter of Herodias as a 'damsel' (Mark 6:22 and 28, Matthew 14:11). The Greek is κοράσιον (korasion) and, notably, is a diminutive, which mustn’t be overlooked, but usually is. D.B. Hart offers a note on this very subject:

"The word κοράσιον is a diminutive form of κόρη (kore), "girl," which would probably be used most properly of a child or young maiden. Though Herodias’s daughter (Salome) is traditionally depicted (in keeping with a certain "orientalist" cliché) as a young woman who beguiles Herod with a salacious dance, the story as related in the Gospels may well be more horrible: an innocent little girl charms Herod by dancing about among his guests, winning an extravagant promise from the king, and then shockingly makes the monstrous request her mother has placed in her mouth."

This single word – κοράσιον – makes a great deal of difference in how we understand the text. Gone are all the seductive flourishes. What’s left is a little girl being corrupted by the adults in her life.

Her "request" is not hers, but her mother’s. A child was being used as a vehicle for vengeance.

As the story stands in this light, it provides a counterpoint to Jesus’ words and actions where children were concerned:
"And he took a child, and put him in the midst of them; and taking him in his arms, he said to them, “Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me; and whoever receives me, receives not me but him who sent me." (Mark 9:36-37)

"And they were bringing children to him, that he might touch them; and the disciples rebuked them. But when Jesus saw it he was indignant, and said to them, "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God. Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it." And he took them in his arms and blessed them, laying his hands upon them. (Mark 10:13-16; cf Matthew 19:13-15)

And more damning still:
"Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me; but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea… "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven…" (Matthew 18:5-6, 10)

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"Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 18:3)

This should rightly raise a hand against all pretensions to sophistication, all claims of being – intellectually, spiritually, gnostically, ascetically – somehow more discerning and better attuned to the mind of God than the manifold faithful, the hoi polloi, (yes, I know 'hoi' means 'the') is nothing more than pride and vainglory.

"Humility is the basis, the soil (as the word implies) – from which everything else – everything else – grows in the life in Christ."
(A.H. Hart)

This is somewhat paradoxical. Inevitably, we adults will have acquired some experience of life, and "humbling ourselves like children" is not to be misconstrued as a silly, vain attempt to get the genie back in the bottle, to recover a 'lost innocence', or an invitation to see the world through rose-coloured spectacles. Least of all Panglossian optimism, or by 'thinking lovely thoughts.'

On the other hand, Hope is one of the three theological virtues – so if you love your neighbour and believe in hell, you must hope that no-one is there and have faith that all are saved.

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Another paradox: To acquire the humility of a child is to nurture a deepening awareness of truly how far from hearing, knowing and living in accordance with God we are. With the daily renewal of that realisation ("Lord, have mercy" is the 'backbone' of virtually every genuine prayer), we discover – again, paradoxically – how near to us God really is, and we in Him. Children believe in miracles – we have taught ourselves not to, but then we are wise in the ways of the world.

As Bob Dylan put it: "I was so much older then; I’m younger than that now."
 
"The word κοράσιον is a diminutive form of κόρη (kore), "girl," which would probably be used most properly of a child or young maiden. Though Herodias’s daughter (Salome) is traditionally depicted (in keeping with a certain "orientalist" cliché) as a young woman who beguiles Herod with a salacious dance, the story as related in the Gospels may well be more horrible: an innocent little girl charms Herod by dancing about among his guests, winning an extravagant promise from the king, and then shockingly makes the monstrous request her mother has placed in her mouth."

This single word – κοράσιον – makes a great deal of difference in how we understand the text. Gone are all the seductive flourishes. What’s left is a little girl being corrupted by the adults in her life.

Her "request" is not hers, but her mother’s. A child was being used as a vehicle for vengeance.
Or grooming and child prostitution😣😥😫
 
I got out the MBD, Parallel Bible and revealing word to fiddle my way thru the verse...then I asked ai to do it for me...

This is a cut and paste from the reply without refining the prompt.

* In this passage: This represents the ultimate triumph of the carnal mind over the spiritual truth, where the guiding principle (John) is entirely removed from the consciousness and "offered" to the unregenerate will (Herodias).

Putting it all together (Mark 6:21-28 as an inner drama):

* V. 21 (Herod's Birthday Feast): The carnal mind (Herod) is celebrating its own existence and power, inviting the various faculties of the lower self (officials, commanders, leading citizens) to revel in sensory experience and egoistic desires.

* V. 22-23 (Salome's Dance and Herod's Vow): The alluring and deceptive expressions of the carnal will (Salome's dance) captivate the unregenerate mind (Herod). Under the influence of this seduction, the carnal mind makes an impulsive and binding commitment ("oath") to grant any desire of the lower self. This signifies how easily the carnal mind can be swayed by its own unexamined desires.

* V. 24 (Herodias's Influence): The carnal will (Herodias), which harbors deep resentment against the purifying voice of conscience (John the Baptist) because it exposes its "unlawful" nature, seizes this opportunity. It instructs its active expression (Salome) to demand the complete silencing of this spiritual truth.

* V. 25 (The Demand): The active desire of the lower self (Salome) immediately demands the complete suppression of the spiritual intellect or conscience (John's head), presented as a victory for the carnal nature.

* V. 26 (Herod's Distress and Compliance): The carnal mind (Herod) experiences inner conflict. It recognizes the error of its decision (distressed) but is bound by its own rigid beliefs ("oath") and the pressure of its own egoistic desires and the "witnesses" of its lower faculties (guests). It chooses to uphold the lower, ego-driven commitment over the higher truth.

* V. 27-28 (The Execution and Delivery): The carnal mind proceeds to entirely suppress the inner voice of truth and conscience (John's beheading). This spiritual discernment is completely removed from the consciousness and handed over as a trophy to the dominating carnal will (Herodias).

In summary, this passage, viewed metaphysically, serves as a powerful allegory for the internal struggle within each individual. It warns against allowing the unregenerate aspects of our consciousness (Herod, Herodias, Salome) to dominate and silence the voice of spiritual truth and conscience (John the Baptist), leading to a state of spiritual blindness and compromise. It encourages us to cultivate the Christ consciousness that allows spiritual truth to reign, rather than allowing our lower desires to dictate our inner world.

Interpreting Mark 6:21-28 through the lens of the Unity Metaphysical Bible Dictionary and The Revealing Word provides a fascinating and insightful spiritual understanding of the passage.
 
I read..


The use of the diminutive emphasizes that she was a young girl, possibly a teenager or even younger. For example, it's the same word used in Mark 5:42 and Matthew 9:24-25 to describe Jairus's 12-year-old daughter whom Jesus raises from the dead.
This usage supports the understanding that Salome was likely a child or very young teenager at the time of the infamous dance, rather than a fully grown woman.

And then think context...in biblical times a teenager IS a young woman...most women were married between 12-16...adolescence is a modern concept.
 
I quite like the lower self- higher self reading of this text!

I would quibble on one point – I read Salome (if that indeed was her name, Salome as Salome III is identified by Josephus as a daughter of Herodias by her first husband. Text scholars question whether the text implies both mother and daughter were named Herodias, however, that's neither here nor there ...) as a child, and innocent, the victim of her mother's scheming.

So I'm not sure her dance was necessarily 'alluring' (ie seductive) or 'deceptive' – the attraction could have been the delight in pure innocence, as children are portrayed consistently as such in the Gospels? Thus I'm not sure I read the child as representative of the 'lower self', rather as something quite other, a purer self, as yet unsullied by the world, but who will be by the time this account is finished.

The Tradition records a Salome being a witness to the crucifixion (Mark 15:40) and at the empty tomb (16:1).
 
The use of the diminutive emphasizes that she was a young girl, possibly a teenager or even younger.
Probably younger.

For example, it's the same word used in Mark 5:42 and Matthew 9:24-25 to describe Jairus's 12-year-old daughter whom Jesus raises from the dead.
That particular reference is interesting ... in thinking about your post above, I did some digging.

Twelve is when girls came of age in Judaism. Wiki suggests the significance of twelve (in Mark and Luke) to emphasise the tragedy of her dying before her father could marry her off, receive a dowry, and expect grandchildren to continue his lineage. Mary Ann Getty-Sullivan: "Thus the father may have faced financial loss as well as social disgrace, in addition to the personal sorrow of his daughter's illness and death."

The suggestion here is she was twelve 'after the event' as it were, healed – or resurrected – and thus able to live on into adulthood.

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κορασίῳ korasion – little girl?

It all gets very involved because the Old English terms 'maiden', 'maid', and so on, do not necessarily correlate with Biblical Greek – so we might be reading of a little girl, or of a young woman...

Earlier in Mark, Jarius speaks of "my little daughter", and when Jesus heals/raises her, he says: "talitha cumi" (Mark 5:41) which is more accurately translated as "little girl, arise". In the language of the day, "a daughter, from the day of her birth until she is twelve years complete, is called 'a little one', and when she is twelve years of age, and one day and upwards, she is called 'a young woman'. (Arrived here via a roundabout route – hopefully @RabbiO might inject some wisdom.)

If we allow Mark quoting the Aramaic, then I think we can assume that the daughter was a 'little girl', which means younger than twelve years old. He does so again in Ch7, when a mother petitions Jesus to heal her daughter, possessed by a demon.

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I might also argue that the same Greek is used of the daughter of Herodias – so was she a little girl, or a young woman?

The salacious interpretation of her dance would assume a young woman – but that has no real Scriptural basis, and reflects more on modern (casually misogynist) values?

Herod would have to be somewhat unwise to promise 'half his empire' to someone who showed any sign of political savvy. He could also have argued that the request was unreasonable, but then he knew where it came from, and that's a different kettle ...

So I favour the idea of innocence corrupted by the powers that be, rather than participant in it... but that's my take. Again, I reference all the Gospels' references to children, and the high esteem they held in the view of Jesus.

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This usage supports the understanding that Salome was likely a child or very young teenager at the time of the infamous dance, rather than a fully grown woman.
And then think context...in biblical times a teenager IS a young woman...most women were married between 12-16...adolescence is a modern concept.
Again ... if she were 12 or over, then I would think by then she'd be married, or promised in marriage ... and then we get into a whole other thing about her dancing and husband/husband to be being witness ... but I'm probably making too much of this now!

I mean, if we were making a movie, be she 12 or 22, there's be a row, a shoot-out, an escape, a high-speed pursuit ...
 
I got out the MBD, Parallel Bible and revealing word to fiddle my way thru the verse...then I asked ai to do it for me...

This is a cut and paste from the reply without refining the prompt.
Good idea. I need to really sit and read the Metaphysical Bible Dictionary. I've had a copy of it for years.
 
In summary, this passage, viewed metaphysically, serves as a powerful allegory for the internal struggle within each individual. It warns against allowing the unregenerate aspects of our consciousness (Herod, Herodias, Salome) to dominate and silence the voice of spiritual truth and conscience (John the Baptist), leading to a state of spiritual blindness and compromise. It encourages us to cultivate the Christ consciousness that allows spiritual truth to reign, rather than allowing our lower desires to dictate our inner world.
I would agree, with the proviso of protecting the dancing child's innocence – her dance is one of spiritual wonder, intuitive more than intellectual.

I wonder is there a way it can be parsed in a way that preserve's the girl's innocence?

A dialogue between Herod and Herodias can be likened to the Ego and the Id, and the wrong-relation between those two – although I would not want to imply she corrupts he – rather it is that both are inclined to the lower aspects of their natures. Both are carnally inclined.

But one has to acknowledge that Herod baulks at a little girl asking for a head on a platter, whereas the girl's mother had no qualm about recruiting her daughter to her murderous scheme. Nevertheless, Herod gives way to his own base instinct.

But as for the dance of the unnamed little one –
"Amen I say to you, unless you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, he is the greater in the kingdom of heaven. And he that shall receive one such little child in my name, receiveth me ... "See that you despise not one of these little ones: for I say to you, that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 18:3-5, 10)
 
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