Master and Lord

[Longfellow]

The Resurrection. That is pretty basic, and pretty fundamental to any belief system.

I’ll copy to you what I posted to Walter, to bring you up to date on what I’m hoping to do in this thread. I said that I gave up, but maybe that was too hasty.

I was confused about what I wanted to do in this thread, and I probably still am, but I’ll try to explain it better

There are things that I think Jesus wants us all to know, not only to be saved, but also to live the best life we can, while we are in this world. In online discussions I see Christians behaving in ways that I think are hiding the things from people that He wants us to know, and repelling people away from learning about it. Not by what they’re saying, but by what they’re doing.

That’s one thing that I’m concerned about in online discussions. Another is that part of what I’m seeing looks to me like people being psychologically subjugated by people selling stories about God and Jesus.

Maybe there’s nothing that anyone can do online about any of that, but would you like to try?

 

[Longfellow]

Only because this thread is not in the Christianity sub forum and you included us all do I give my answer your question - No.

What I’m discussing in this thread is only for people who think of Jesus as their Master and Lord. I’ll discuss it with you if you’d like to, but I would want to do it in some other thread.

(later) I see that the title and location that I chose for this thread might make it look like it’s intended for debate. I apologize for that..

 

[Longfellow]

Think about it how does someone start to get on the road to life? In my opinion it all starts with reading what Jesus has to say in the four Gospels then little by little start listening to his words and do what he says to do.

I am going to reread the Bible again, but first I am going to read the gospels so many times I have Jesus words memorized, in this way I can listen to Jesus words and put all his words into practice, little by little I can change into a better person following the words of Christ Jesus.

Thank you. Anything else? Any other ideas about what to about what I’m concerned about?

 

[Longfellow]

Think about it how does someone start to get on the road to life? In my opinion it all starts with reading what Jesus has to say in the four Gospels then little by little start listening to his words and do what he says to do.

That looks to me like exactly what Jesus says, hear His words and do them.

I'm grateful for you trying to help me. Thank you.

I am going to reread the Bible again, but first I am going to read the gospels so many times I have Jesus words memorized, in this way I can listen to Jesus words and put all his words into practice, little by little I can change into a better person following the words of Christ Jesus.

I agree with all that. It looks like a wonderful plan to me, and a very good place to start, if we want to be channels of grace for God to guide people to the road of life.

I've said before that I'm not posting as a Christian, I'm only posting as a person who thinks of Jesus as our Master and Lord. To put it another way, I'm thinking that it pleases God for us to always be learning together to serve and obey Jesus and to learn to live the way he says to live.

 

[Longfellow]

To have a discussion on what we agree on would be hard because limiting Him to less than I have stated is denying His full role in my life. He saved me.

That was just one of my ideas for what to do about what I'm concerned about in online discussions between Christians.

As I've said before, I'm not posting as a Christian, but only as a person who thinks that it pleases God for us to always be learning together to serve and obey Jesus and to live the way He says to live.

One thing that I'm concerned about in online discussions is that I see Christians behaving in ways that I think are hiding things from people that Jesus wants them to know about, and repelling people away from learning about it. Not by what they’re saying, but by what they’re doing. Another is that part of what I’m seeing looks to me like people being psychologically subjugated by people selling stories about God and Jesus.

Maybe there’s nothing that anyone can do online about any of that, but would you like to try?

 

[Faithfulservant]

That was just one of my ideas for what to do about what I'm concerned about in online discussions between Christians.

As I've said before, I'm not posting as a Christian, but only as a person who thinks that it pleases God for us to always be learning together to serve and obey Jesus and to live the way He says to live.

One thing that I'm concerned about in online discussions is that I see Christians behaving in ways that I think are hiding things from people that Jesus wants them to know about, and repelling people away from learning about it. Not by what they’re saying, but by what they’re doing. Another is that part of what I’m seeing looks to me like people being psychologically subjugated by people selling stories about God and Jesus.

Maybe there’s nothing that anyone can do online about any of that, but would you like to try?

No thanks..

 

[Faithfulservant]

That was just one of my ideas for what to do about what I'm concerned about in online discussions between Christians.


One thing that I'm concerned about in online discussions is that I see Christians behaving in ways that I think are hiding things from people that Jesus wants them to know about, and repelling people away from learning about it. Not by what they’re saying, but by what they’re doing. Another is that part of what I’m seeing looks to me like people being psychologically subjugated by people selling stories about God and Jesus.

Maybe there’s nothing that anyone can do online about any of that, but would you like to try?

What gets me.. if you replace Christian with either Jew or Muslim that would not be acceptable. Why is it ok to do that with Christians and their faith in Christ?

 

[Longfellow]

What gets me.. if you replace Christian with either Jew or Muslim that would not be acceptable. Why is it ok to do that with Christians and their faith in Christ?

Do you mean like this?

Jews behaving in ways that are hiding things from people that God wants them to know about, and repelling people away from learning about it. Not by what they’re saying, but by what they’re doing. Another is that part of it looks like people being psychologically subjugated by people selling stories about God and Israel.

and this?

Muslims behaving in ways that are hiding things from people that God wants them to know about, and repelling people away from learning about it. Not by what they’re saying, but by what they’re doing. Another is that part of it looks like people being psychologically subjugated by people selling stories about God and the Quran.

I'm sure that all that is happening, and it does concern me as part of a larger problem, but I haven't studied Jewish or Muslim scriptures and spent time with Jews or Muslims, enough for me to have discussions about it with them.

When I say that I'm not a Christian, it doesn't mean that I don't believe what the Bible says about Jesus, or that I wasn't raised as a Christian. I attended confirmation class and was baptized in an Evangelical and Reformed church. I mean that I think that most or all Christians would think that some of my views are contrary to Christian beliefs, and that I think that all Christian churches are promoting false teachings.

In my understanding, Jesus was the king that God promised to David, and His death was a ransom paid to free us from captivity to the sinful side of our nature, to be able to enter His kingdom. Everything that God is in the world is in Him.

 

[Thomas]

It is a judgment call.

It is indeed, which is precisely the point – you make judgement calls, @Faithfulservant makes judgement calls, @Longfellow makes judgement calls, and so do I, and so does everyone ... you cannot not make the call.

Which explains, from the very outset, that Scripture is not self-explanatory.

 

[Thomas]

There are things that I think Jesus wants us all to know, not only to be saved, but also to live the best life we can, while we are in this world.

I ask again ... what things?

In online discussions I see Christians behaving in ways that I think are hiding the things from people that He wants us to know, and repelling people away from learning about it. Not by what they’re saying, but by what they’re doing.

OK. So you have a low opinion of Christians.

Another is that part of what I’m seeing looks to me like people being psychologically subjugated by people selling stories about God and Jesus.

That low opinion echoed here.

I posted this outside of the Christian forum because there might be other people besides Christians who would be interested in what it’s about. I’m not a Christian, and I care about it, so there might be others like me, who care about it even if they aren’t Christians.

OK ... so non-Christians?

It seems to me, the straightforward answer was given by @RabbiO. He does not accept your view of Christ. I doubt @muhammad_isa would either, without qualification. Nor, I might suggest, would @Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu.

What you're essentially asking for is some anodyne definition of Christ/Christianity which no-one can find offensive or in any way in opposition to their own paradigm and perspective.

Clearly you'd have to rule out the doctrine of Incarnation as Christianity understands it, and Resurrection, without qualification. Those two are really the pillars on which Christianity stands. Dismiss the Trinity. Then you'd have to radically interpret the "I am" statements of Christ, and strip all His gifts of any spiritual efficacy... and so on ...

What you'd be left with is an empty shell.

Actually, your best bet is to pick up on my brother-in-Christ @wil, and look at the Jefferson Bible, a cut-n-paste job done on the text where all particularity is removed, and what's left is a set of moral maxims that everyone can reasonably agree to.

 

[Longfellow]

I ask again ... what things?


OK. So you have a low opinion of Christians.


That low opinion echoed here.


OK ... so non-Christians?

It seems to me, the straightforward answer was given by @RabbiO. He does not accept your view of Christ. I doubt @muhammad_isa would either, without qualification. Nor, I might suggest, would @Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu.

What you're essentially asking for is some anodyne definition of Christ/Christianity which no-one can find offensive or in any way in opposition to their own paradigm and perspective.

Clearly you'd have to rule out the doctrine of Incarnation as Christianity understands it, and Resurrection, without qualification. Those two are really the pillars on which Christianity stands. Dismiss the Trinity. Then you'd have to radically interpret the "I am" statements of Christ, and strip all His gifts of any spiritual efficacy... and so on ...

What you'd be left with is an empty shell.

Actually, your best bet is to pick up on my brother-in-Christ @wil, and look at the Jefferson Bible, a cut-n-paste job done on the text where all particularity is removed, and what's left is a set of moral maxims that everyone can reasonably agree to.

If it matters to you, you're grievously misrepresenting what I've said, and I'm surprised and grieved by your personal hostility against me here.

 

[Thomas]

@Longfellow – there's really no hostility on my part, and if you think I've misrepresented you, can we discuss. I'm simply responding to your portrayal of Christians and your request for a common ground on Christianity, apparently outside of Christianity – or so it seems to me.

It does seem to me, in asking for details about Christ that everyone can all agree to, will necessarily be reductive.

 

[Longfellow]

@Longfellow – there's really no hostility on my part, and if you think I've misrepresented you, can we discuss. I'm simply responding to your portrayal of Christians and your request for a common ground on Christianity, apparently outside of Christianity – or so it seems to me.

It does seem to me, in asking for details about Christ that everyone can all agree to, will necessarily be reductive.

Okay, thanks. I don't know what I could say that I haven't already said more than once, to clear up your misunderstanding of what I've been saying, and hoping to do.

(later) All I can think of is to say what is not true in what you've said.

 

[Longfellow]

OK ... so non-Christians?

Not only non-Christians. Maybe not any other non-Christians besides me. I've never seen or heard of any other non-Christian who believe that it pleases God for us to always be learning together to serve and obey Jesus and to learn to live the way He says to live. I thought that maybe there are some Christians who do. Don't you think so?

What you're essentially asking for is some anodyne definition of Christ/Christianity which no-one can find offensive or in any way in opposition to their own paradigm and perspective.

I'm not asking for any definition of Christianity at all, and I'm certainly not looking for a list of things that won't offend anyone or be in opposition to their views. I would think that would be obvious.

 

[Thomas]

I thought that maybe there are some Christians who do. Don't you think so?

More to the point – Do you?

I'm not asking for any definition of Christianity at all, and I'm certainly not looking for a list of things that won't offend anyone or be in opposition to their views. I would think that would be obvious.

To be honest, I don't think it is.

You're asking for people, possibly non-Christian, who believe Jesus is Master and Lord.

The word for master in the NT is διδάσκαλος didaskalos. It's most commonly used by others referring to Jesus, and it's simply an honorific, a term of polite respect. Another equivalent term is καθηγητής kathēgētēs.

When the KJV, for example, translates the disciples, invariably the term is rabbi or kyrios.

I would think you'd not get non-Christians to agree to kyrios, as the Evangelists were using the Greek term as an equivalent to the Hebrew term Adonai (אֲדֹנָי), referring to God, in place of the ineffable name YHWH.