Do we have a spirit and, if so, what role does it play in our relationship with God?

Aupmanyav said:
I believe that existence has its counter-part in non-existence.
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Non-existence is an “other side” that doesn’t “stand out?” It lays in as frequencies? Seraphim singing? “Counter-part” seems very similar to the family of spiritual metaphysical beliefs we Theists espouse. It’s in the “things unseen” category attributed to faith. And perhaps leaning toward the Kantian belief that mind informs objects more than objects inform mind (empiricism)? Even though you and I highly value the empirical aspect of pragmatism (whatever works, functions). The human mind just might access functions such as wholeness, integration, expansiveness (Krishnamerti sp?) with words and concepts like God, whether it is metaphor or literal or a meta metaphor? Contemplating non-existence seems kind of Godly to me, as it is a Beyondness somehow grasped (although loosely) by the human mind and has some utility (keeping our minds and hearts open to potential, freeing us psychologically? allowing us to be co-CREATORS?)? Perhaps mind itself (content-less mind) provides us with space, breathing room? Spirit means breath. We breathe into thin air, into the great “whatever.” And this helps us come up with new approaches that help us adapt to seemingly unresolvable problems in life. “God” or Unknown or even nonexistence helps us with existence. The Null Hypothesis helps with the Hypothesis.
 
otherbrother said:
Non-existence is an “other side”.. The Null Hypothesis helps with the Hypothesis.
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:) Well, well; the theories that you describe are different from my view. At the moment science is trying to understand it.
However, 3,000 years ago, a poet in RigVeda had the same idea:
"Sages who searched with their heart's thought discovered the existent's kinship in the non-existent."
sacred-texts.com

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CXXIX. Creation. | Internet Sacred Text Archive

Hinduism: 1. THEN was not non-existent nor existent: there was no realm of air, no sky beyond it.
sacred-texts.com
 
Aupmanyav said:
:) Well, well; the theories that you describe are different from my view. At the moment science is trying to understand it.
However, 3,000 years ago, a poet in RigVeda had the same idea:
"Sages who searched with their heart's thought discovered the existent's kinship in the non-existent."
sacred-texts.com

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CXXIX. Creation. | Internet Sacred Text Archive

Hinduism: 1. THEN was not non-existent nor existent: there was no realm of air, no sky beyond it.
sacred-texts.com
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Aupmanyav,
I thought you’d appreciate this line of reasoning which I think is consistent with the branch of Hinduism’s belief that deities are not necessary or even preferred, but okay if useful to the person. This excerpt is from the book I’m working on, Getting to Know One’s Connected Self:

Don’t Worry, be Spiritual

One of the things that can get in the way of getting to know our Connected Selves is disbelief. The modern mind is conditioned to insist on objective proof. There is no known way to objectively prove that we even have a thing or being called a “spirit.” The modern mind then is tempted to ignore it as being a mere figment of our imagination.

But this would be a mistake, since we are subjects, not just objects. There are subjective truths that work for us. They function in our lives. If we function as though we have a spirit that knows spiritual truths and can reveal them to us, we can live a richer, more fulfilling, life.

Perhaps the notion that we have a Connected Self is but an empty chair we talk to as though in a Gestalt therapy session. We project our potential for sensing and utilizing connectiveness or spirituality onto the empty chair and then relate with the projection. Perhaps what we are getting to know is our own spiritual/connective potential.

Getting to know one’s Connective Self may amount to connecting with our spiritual/connective potential. Even the best-trained modern mind can accept that. The New Method I am advocating here has plenty of validity as a way of functioning in life. We can be spiritual like Jesus Christ. Use the method of improving your relationship with your own spirit as means to be more Christlike.

Don’t worry if you actually have a spirit, be spiritual. And if the words “spirit” and “spiritual” are turn-offs to your modern mind, use “connective” and “Connected Self” instead. Don’t worry, be connective.
 
I am not connected to anything, I am myself all things ..
(that ever were, that all are and that ever will be), Brahman.
You think of seperation between yourself and other things.
Advaita Hinduism does not recognize any separation whatsoever,
between humans, animals, vegetation and non-living objects.
Is not every thing make of atoms? That is connection.

But I appreciate your try to convert me.
Thanks, but I will not be Jesus-like. I am OK with myself. :D
 
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Aupmanyav said:
You think of seperation between yourself and other things.
Advaita Hinduism does not recognize any separation whatsoever,
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I do agree that oneness is more real than many-ness. But things do have a reality on the level they exist and where we exist as individual human beings. I still need to navigate the many things, but I can navigate better if I open up to oneness .

How about “dynamic symmetry?” Oneness on the one hand, many-ness on the other, but leaning dynamically to the oneness hand, giving it higher priority, perhaps even seeing many-ness as an illusion that we gradually spiral out of?
 
otherbrother said:
How about “dynamic symmetry?” Oneness on the one hand, many-ness on the other, but leaning dynamically to the oneness hand, giving it higher priority, perhaps even seeing many-ness as an illusion that we gradually spiral out of?
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Riding on two horses or sailing on two boats is an acrobatic performance.
 
Aupmanyav said:
Riding on two horses or sailing on two boats is an acrobatic performance.
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From the Christian belief tradition, Apostle Paul’s (I think) “be In the world but not of it” has always resonated with me. Physical existence is our only game in town while we in it, but we don’t have to be OF it. We are “thrown” (from Existentialism) here and nailed to it (meaning of the word “crucified”) but we can bring a deeper, more ultimately real, dimension without separation into it in order to increase its coherence and harmony and fullness.
 
I agree as I develop in my spiritual path I think there should be more than one way but also he could be a way? Maybe? I'm unsure since I'm new at thinking about this.

My new relationship to the maybe existence/god is why.

Its because I feel like if you watch a movie with people but beforehand watched the movie in a really tired state. Then now when you watch the movie again with them you forgot what happened but still know the most emotional plot beats.

Since they left an impact on your brain. But nothing else. So you just have to watch the movie but can't say as much since that would spoil it. But people are looking at you right before the big emotional scene and they notice your mood shift so they ask you what's happening but you can't explain because the scene is going to happen in a minute and that would be a spoiler.

Also the spoiler doesn't even make sense yet.

Its like that feeling but instead of a that feeling just being for a movie its for weeks.

So I kind of need a minute. Maybe dance out my feelings.
Write an emotional story.
Watch an emotional movie.
Go outside.
Get back in touch with nature.

Maybe get a journal.

Yeah its also feels like if you were a kid and to teach to swim someone threw you into ice cold water and said its either sink or swim so get swimming. And someone is random chance and you have no idea what your doing.
 
Aupmanyav said:
But I appreciate your try to convert me.
Thanks, but I will not be Jesus-like. I am OK with myself.
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Not trying to convert you to Christianity, perhaps convert you to “riding two horses” with a lean to the Oneness horse.
 
thewayisnotthewaybutis said:
I agree as I develop in my spiritual path I think there should be more than one way but also he could be a way? Maybe? I'm unsure since I'm new at thinking about this.
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Whatever “spirituality” is, it seems a general other “way” than the regular worldly struggle way. A fountain flowing deep and wide is not limited to one religion or one person but the inside out unfolding of positive potential utilizes a kind of natural flow (Grace) that is different than mere effort. I have advocated “thinking like energy” as a way to approach spirituality. Thinking in terms of flow instead of one thing bumping into another. Probably involves right brain skill of seeing/sensing gestalts, prefrontal cortex’s ability to integrate connective thought with object-oriented thought (“thinking like matter?”). Possibly the kind of thinking implied by the Tree of Life prophesied in the Bible? “Life” is a dynamic, interactive, whole. The human mind may need to develop that skill and must rely on relatively newly evolved brain structures like the prefrontal cortex. Use it or lose it. We can teach each other to use it. The soft power of love nurtures such an integrative skill much better than pressure and effort alone. So the empathy and nurturing of the limbic system that is part of the “mammalian brain” is an important precursor to the integrative thought that can help us understand spiritually or connectiveness.
 
otherbrother said:
“mammalian brain”
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I have a 'mammalian brain'. I can think only in the 'mammalian' way. There is a limit to love and empathy. That is what my "mammalian brain" tells me. Bible implied only one thing. Jesus is the son of God and the only way to him. I do not believe in existence of God, have found no reason to do so. So, Bible and Jesus and those who had similar claims are out. I have already mentioned my idea of oneness, it is about atoms and molecules.
 
Real. I do not want to convince you if god or maybe gods? I don't know exists or not. I can only tell you my own expierences.

I always had literal and metaphorical dreams about having an older brother. I was born an only child though so I thought these literal dreams were cruel and then I wondered.

If reincarnation existed maybe I had an older brother in a past life and maybe I could find them again. And thats one of the only things thats been keeping me going.

I lived a hard life. Still do. My mother is sick and I have to grow up sooner than I was prepared to. Thrown in the deep end and told by people to just hang in there.

All I know is I have reason to get up and go do the arduous process of living now. Even if it doesn't exist I know people atleast have eachother and thats whole lot better than nothing I think.

I do not want to change your beliefs. I just want to tell you my expierences. To just exist.
 
Wait wait wait. I haven't finished reading the Bible. I just only went to church briefly in my childhood then stopped. And then only read some of the stories that I do not know how accurate or even if true because I'm not a historian.

But okay I've heard that relevations are in a strange spot for how true they are. But its there so I like reading about it and in it wasn't the last thing Jesus was to not worship him?

Isn't he just supposed to be a teacher. A friendly teacher who might be able to do amazing things but I mean if its a dream John had and he knew him then it might be slightly in Jesus's character to not want to be worshipped?

I'm just throwing ideas out here apologies if this offends anyone in advance. Religion is just kind of confusing to me since I wasn't socialized with it.
 
thewayisnotthewaybutis said:
I do not want to change your beliefs. I just want to tell you my expierences. To just exist.
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Oh, I have done that for the last 83 years and may not have much left. But I have enjoyed my time here and suffered too. I do not believe in ever-lasting life or reincarnation. So, when I die, my consciousness will be erased and I will become one with the environment.
 
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