Christian Activists in Britain Protest New Gay Rights Law

Scarlet Pimpernel said:
They're not?
Gender discrimination: "She's too emotional, and she'd call in sick once a month. We can't hire her."
Race discrimination: "I didn't rent the apartment to him because he'd be playing that loud 'music' all the time."
Age discrimination: "Let's not hire him. He'd be too slow."
Disability discrimination: "Don't bother taking her order. I'm sure she can't talk clearly anyway."
All these forms of discrimination are based on assumptions about the behaviour of an individual based on their membership in a particular group, and come down to the fact that the person doing the discriminating is uncomfortable with that group.
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Ok, I get it now ... it is just a stereotypical assumption that homosexuals want to have same sex relationships ;)

Homosexuals are defined by behaviour (real or desired) in a way that other minority groups are not. A blind person is not blind because he wants to have a guide dog!

Behaviour is either moral or immoral. Therefore it is my responsibilty to decide what I believe is right and wrong, and act accordingly.
 
I believe that presuming ourselves Godly enough to judge even one other human being, even in our error (understandable, as we are not yet perfect) ... is a far worse sin, than anything that might be immoral about homosexuality. As Christ would put it, and juantoo3 is REALLY good at quoting this one too, we're "picking motes" if we judge others.

Now, you can argue that two wrongs make it okay, or YOU STOP PICKING MOTES FIRST, neh.

But once again, I'd rather leave it up to God - than ASSUME I know EXACTLY what God wants. Christ taught us to Love Unconditionally. When we MASTER that ... THEN let's presume to do God's handiwork here on earth when it comes to sorting out the moral from the immoral.

~Zag
 
Zagreus said:
I believe that presuming ourselves Godly enough to judge even one other human being, even in our error (understandable, as we are not yet perfect) ... is a far worse sin, than anything that might be immoral about homosexuality. As Christ would put it, and juantoo3 is REALLY good at quoting this one too, we're "picking motes" if we judge others.

Now, you can argue that two wrongs make it okay, or YOU STOP PICKING MOTES FIRST, neh.

But once again, I'd rather leave it up to God - than ASSUME I know EXACTLY what God wants. Christ taught us to Love Unconditionally. When we MASTER that ... THEN let's presume to do God's handiwork here on earth when it comes to sorting out the moral from the immoral.

~Zag
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Loving unconditionally and allowing a continuation of an error is two different things. You say "what is the error?" And I say homosexual acts are the error. And the Bible says do not condone such behavior.

Note I didn't state homosexuals are the error. Frankly, the act itself is self defeating. But the disruption to society is what God is concerned about. But that isn't even the problem. The confusion brought on to the children is. I will point out again that Sparta had to declare a law, that every man had to lay with a woman in order to continue the state by way of children, else they would have become defunct. (they did anyway).

Judging isn't a Godly thing. It is a man thing. We have to have judges on mortal affairs. Your example is frankly, mute. It certainly is not a "sin", since the Noahidic laws of man demand that we have judges over man's affairs, and that they be just and impartial (nevermind the christian/judeac/Islamic scriptures).

Anarchy sucks.

v/r

Joshua
 
As an individual, I have a responsibility to make decisions concerning my own behaviour.
As a parent, and as a citizen who votes, I am obliged to make decisions about what I believe is right and wrong, moral and immoral.

Everyone makes decisions that affect others - to pretend otherwise is just self righteous nonsense.
Some people use their conscience as a guide. I try to use my understanding of Scripture.

Anyone who takes the position that everything should be tolerated, has not stopped to consider the consequences.
There are social and spiritual consequences for whatever we embrace as a society.

If you want to smoke, why not, it's your life.
As long as I don't have to pay for your medical treatment, ok.
As long as you don't set an example that my children might imitate, ok.
As long as I don't have to have breathe your smoke, ok.
 
kenod said:
As an individual, I have a responsibility to make decisions concerning my own behaviour.
As a parent, and as a citizen who votes, I am obliged to make decisions about what I believe is right and wrong, moral and immoral.

Everyone makes decisions that affect others - to pretend otherwise is just self righteous nonsense.
Some people use their conscience as a guide. I try to use my understanding of Scripture.

Anyone who takes the position that everything should be tolerated, has not stopped to consider the consequences.
There are social and spiritual consequences for whatever we embrace as a society.

If you want to smoke, why not, it's your life.
As long as I don't have to pay for your medical treatment, ok.
As long as you don't set an example that my children might imitate, ok.
As long as I don't have to have breathe your smoke, ok.
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hmmmm, what kind of car to you drive? If none, then you are "perfectly" within your right to demand everything else.
 
Ok, so sodomy, you know - that's all unbiblical and all. Besides which, that stuff is illegal. You do that, you're goin to hell. That's all I gotta say. I'm not judgin', just tippin my hat to God and the Bible there. No judgin, just pointing out that all those dudes in the pornos, and guys wanting to try a new ... umm, thing, with the wife ... gonna be soooooorry.

oh brother

~Zag
 
Quahom1 said:
hmmmm, what kind of car to you drive? If none, then you are "perfectly" within your right to demand everything else.
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I drive the most economical car I possibly can while participating as a contributing member of society.

If your point was that whatever we do, we affect others, then I'm right with you.
 
Homosexuality is not disordered, it occurs in all species, if were only a human traith then it would be arguable but it is not.

I find it fascinating the number of Christians who continually put homosexual people down, who demean them, argue that its "just about the sex." HOW THE HECK WOULD YOU KNOW? I have found most Christians quite unwilling to call a homosexual person their brother or sister in Christ, what a fine attitude that is!

I despise prejudice.

kiwimac
 
Zagreus said:
Ok, so sodomy, you know - that's all unbiblical and all. Besides which, that stuff is illegal. You do that, you're goin to hell. That's all I gotta say. I'm not judgin', just tippin my hat to God and the Bible there. No judgin, just pointing out that all those dudes in the pornos, and guys wanting to try a new ... umm, thing, with the wife ... gonna be soooooorry.

oh brother

~Zag
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Nix nix river stix. What is done between husband and wife is PRIVATE, and sanctified by the marriage. Of course there must be willingness between partners, or else it is the equivilent of rape.

To link marriage bed with porn is ludicrious! Assinine! Cheap. Since marriage is a God blessed thing and sex in marriage is a God blessed and sanctioned thing, what say you that God does not witness what He has created? And if a couple of randy partners want to try something different with each other, what say you that God is opposed?

Who is passing judgement on whom? God? or man?
 
kiwimac said:
Homosexuality is not disordered, it occurs in all species, if were only a human traith then it would be arguable but it is not.

I find it fascinating the number of Christians who continually put homosexual people down, who demean them, argue that its "just about the sex." HOW THE HECK WOULD YOU KNOW? I have found most Christians quite unwilling to call a homosexual person their brother or sister in Christ, what a fine attitude that is!

I despise prejudice.

kiwimac
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Prejudice works both ways...

For example, I hate gays with an attitude against heterosexuals. But they hate me as well, and I'm heterosexual.

My brother inlaw warned me about gays. (he was one). He said, "they're dangerous". Then he died.

So, I suppose it could be said I'm not "pre judging" anything or anyone. Post judging might be more apt, I suppose.

p.s. humans are not animals...
 
kiwimac said:
Homosexuality is not disordered, it occurs in all species, if were only a human traith then it would be arguable but it is not.
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Animals do it ... yeah, that's a really good argument!

I find it fascinating the number of Christians who continually put homosexual people down, who demean them, argue that its "just about the sex." HOW THE HECK WOULD YOU KNOW? I have found most Christians quite unwilling to call a homosexual person their brother or sister in Christ, what a fine attitude that is!

I despise prejudice.

kiwimac
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An unrepentant homosexual is not "in Christ".

The gay community insists that loving the person means accepting the behaviour. Christ never did.

It seems your definition of prejudice is "Christian standards based on Biblical teaching".
 
I would have to disagree with anyone, gay or straight, who insisted to me that I must condone, or approve of, ANY particular behaviour. But kenod, by your own definition then, a repentant (or penitent) homosexual would be "in Christ," just as you - through your own repentance, are likewise? If this is not so, then pray tell, clarify it ... please.

~Zagreus
 
Zagreus said:
I would have to disagree with anyone, gay or straight, who insisted to me that I must condone, or approve of, ANY particular behaviour. But kenod, by your own definition then, a repentant (or penitent) homosexual would be "in Christ," just as you - through your own repentance, are likewise? If this is not so, then pray tell, clarify it ... please.
~Zagreus
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There are many Christians who experience same sex attraction. Just as there are many Christian men who experience sexual attraction to some woman other than his wife. It is what you do about it that matters.

No one is immune from temptation. And Christians will sometimes give in to temptation. But Jesus Christ is always ready to forgive, and allow us to try again. For one person, sexual lust may be his weak point, for another it may be anger and temper, for another it may be lust for material wealth.

I do not discriminate against homosexuals in my private life. If I had a gay son, his partner would be just as welcome at my dinner table as my daughter's husband.

What I am opposed to is some churches teaching that homosexual practices are acceptable Christian behaviour.
 
Quahom1 said:
Loving unconditionally and allowing a continuation of an error is two different things. You say "what is the error?" And I say homosexual acts are the error. And the Bible says do not condone such behavior.
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There is a difference also, between not condoning, and not allowing a continuation. The first is passive, the second is active and is also reminiscent of those pharisees ready to stone the adulterous woman.
 
Quahom1 said:
I will point out again that Sparta had to declare a law, that every man had to lay with a woman in order to continue the state by way of children, else they would have become defunct. (they did anyway).
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oh
 
kenod said:
Ok, I get it now ... it is just a stereotypical assumption that homosexuals want to have same sex relationships ;)
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My point is that people who discriminate against homosexuals (or against anyone, for that matter) never take the time to get to know that person as an individual, but see him/her as nothing more than "Ooh, a big, bad, homosexual, therefore bad and evil and go away." I am so much more than my sexual orientation.
I've used this quote in another thread recently, but it bears repeating: "There is this illusion that homosexuals only have sex and heterosexuals fall in love." - Boy George
That's what it is, and all that it is, an illusion that from the instant I came out of the closet, my career goals, likes and dislikes, sense of humor, relationship with my family, taste in music, all became subjugated to the one overwhelming fact that (dun-dun-DUNNNNNN) [big booming voice] I AM GAY.

I'd like to link to something I posted in another thread - the post I'm referring to is almost all the way down the third page.
http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/bestiality-vs-child-sex-vs-4933-3.html

Particularly this:
Scarlet Pimpernel said:
Take a look at Matthew 8:5-13. Jesus didn't condemn homosexuals; how can anyone calling themselves His follower do the same?
But Jesus didn't say anything about the centurion's sin - on the contrary, He praised the man's faith and healed his servant. He didn't even say "Go, and sin no more," as He so often did.
I like to think that perhaps Jesus is talking about homosexuals in verse 11.
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kenod said:
The gay community insists that loving the person means accepting the behaviour. Christ never did.
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kenod, see my quote above.

I also know very well that homosexuality has nothing to do with one's acceptance of Christ, certainly not in my case. Gee, why do I feel like I'm recycling all my old arguments?
 
is what society is being asked to allow, is what society is protesting for the common good? where does that which goes against what many consider the natural order of things stop? who makes that call and what is it based on? in other words, if society breaks away from what many consider the traditional marriage between a man and a woman and the rights that go along with that, and society goes with marriage unions between a man and a man, where does this notion of allowing unions between loving partners end? think about polygamy. there was a court case just the other day where a child now has three parents. some people, from a humanistic point of view, use their character as a means to justify their actions, but the issue with humans making laws without god, is that it becomes all relative to who the majority is. that is why some countries have legal prostitution, other states allow polygamy, some countries allow marriage to 14 year olds, etc. so again i put out the question, is allowing gay rights for the common good of man, and is it in line with ethical and moral law that can be considered progress?
 
BlaznFattyz said:
so again i put out the question, is allowing gay rights for the common good of man, and is it in line with ethical and moral law that can be considered progress?
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Hi,

Yes and yes IMO.:)

s.
 
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