Age of Aquarius

[Phoenix72]

How valid is it though to start with a specific premise and then cherry-pick ambiguous mythology from around the world to support that premise? If you take a premise that is generic enough it's not really suprising that there might be similar images around the world -- mythology is a human thing after all, and despite our cultural differences we all go through the same basic things (birth, struggle with both triumphs and failures, death, etc.)

Mythology is first and foremost a poetic way of trying to describe reality. That means that it is open to interpretation. Do the interpretations truly support the very specific basic premises (like predicting a specific "end of the world" date) that they are being stretched to support?

Bgruagach, Myths are just that, stories that may resemble some past event or history, it is also my personal opinion that some of these myths have been shaped by our ancestors, like the bible for instance, a book that was written by a bunch of pagan astrologer priests (essenes, Qumran) who were aware of precession, suddenly producing a book advocating a patriarchal system and the supplanting of the Goddess. Why? because they were aware of the coming age of masculine energy and the only way to preserve the myths was to package them and market it to a masculine society until the Aquarian age arrived. Was there really 12 disciples and Jesus? (13) are there really 7 seals before the Apocalypse? 72 letters in the name of or is this some chakra related euphamism?

To say that I am cherry picking 'Obscure Mythology' only shows that you aren't reading enough mythologies, Jesus, Kali and Vishu aren't 'Obscure', not even Quetzacoatl is and he unwent the same process as well, I could understand if maybe they were not major mythic sourses selling the same cup of wine. My specific premise is only this: Destruction precedes birth, in relation to the coming of an Aquarian age (the topic)the rest we've already come to an accord on, although I'm open to continued debate on that too.

If I chose to quote you solely from the bible or only about the Goddess or kept my daitribes confined to the America's and their prophesies then you could accuse me of finding obscure references within, but these are major events within these different cultures globally. If your looking for a more western epic other than from the Judeo christanic stories (each with hideous battle stories to spiritual freedom) then try the more feminine sumerian Tiamat destruction.

Sorry people, it doesn't nessesarilly rule out a happy transition (it is only a myth) but then even the transformation of the aquarian age comes from the same mythic sources that you sek to dismiss, you can't pick and chose which reoccuring myths will happen and which wont, its all the one mythic structure.

Where does it mention the enlightenment and not the cataclysm, I prefer to see it than not.

 

[Phoenix72]

72 letters in the name of God? or is this some Precession related euphamism?

Sorry got that a bit funny.

P72

 

[pohaikawahine]

The main point I was making here was that it was a story about a change in circumstance for that world at that time in mythology, if you read the dead sea scrolls you'll find its not too different from the messianic epic in its essential tale. Its always battle/destruction with a resurrection, Jesus lugs a cross gets wacked and then hes back renewed, Kali trys to destroy the world at the end of the Kali Yuga then is reminded of her love of Shiva, In the bhagavad-vita Vishnu tells his side kick that the war he fights is nessasary, luke loses his mentor (the teacher of righteousness) and Battles Darth Vader (the anti christ) to resurrect the force. Did somebody say Jungian conciousness? These myths occur over and over in humanitys myths.

As far as the egyptians, they were so bold as to even spell it out for us and actually say that north would become south in their book of the dead (or more appropriately the book of going forth) and that the world would see great turmoil. Interestingly enough Ms pohaikawahine, when Osiris encountered Set he was cut up and 12 pieces and a thirteenth (his phalus) were found, the only piece still at large was his spine, his Kundalini, the Caduceus, the serpents. All was reborn when Isis gives birth to Horus. The Hindus have a tale about the gods going looking for treasure in the (picean) sea, they use a great serpent to hold a massive stone to churn the seas until their bounty came out, 12 precious items came out, plus the ambrosia (13) and then later a woman walked out for me a symbol of the reawakening of the feminine.

Again this coming age (and the last one) does seem to have alot of numbers popping up again and again in the Myth structure, pohaikawahine, I love that tid bit about the brain and its 12 paths (Im sure theres a 13th too) seems like a continuing case of "As Above so as below", as I belive all these cultures are refering to the precession when they use the 12 (and 13) as it fits into the whole mechanism.

So back to Topic, Isn't this our whole point? What does the new Aquarian age mean? I'm sure we understand the maths, the process, the myths, most of us even believe that it may herald some awakening consciousness (cheesy as that may sound) its seems that lately the main point of debate is the Cataclysm element.

My point was that the age requires a burn to rise again renewed.

aloha e .... there is always a battle because this is the symbol of the spiralling energies within the body (symbolized by the spiralling snakes on the caudacaus which is the spinal column) and usually the symbol of the battle is the tension between twin brothers (but there are many other variations) ... and actually you are right, there are 13 but the 13th is the symbol of all becoming One (like King Arthur and the 12 knights of the round table) .... but I want to get to your last point "that the age requires a burn to rise again renewed" .... it does require a "burn" but it is not a physical burn...

if you want to look at it in terms of the constellations (which are replicated in the mind) the change of year comes when the sun enters the constellation of Aires (the lamb/ram) .... symbolically the lamb (Aires) is roasted or burned by the sun, and we passover from winter to spring .... (also the symbols in the Passover) .... this is an important transition of the year because the winter is when all goes beneath the earth to be nurtured and reborn again in the spring when the sun returns .... this is the transition from the time of darkness to the time of light .... interesting that this concept of moving from darkness to light is symbolized in so many different ways .... also if you look at the symbol of the spiralling energy moving into the brain, it must pass through a part of the brain called the "fornix" (I have to look this one up again but I remember reading that the word "fornix" is related to the word "furnace") so the energy would move through the "furnace" for change to occur ....

lots of symbols from the ancient ones left for us to remember .... I can only say that I see the Age of Aquarius as a transition from darkness to light, an age of heightened evolution not revolution, and a time in which the frequencies of our minds will increase exponentially .... and interestingly enough the more people that begin to change their minds about how they see this change as positive instead of negative, the sooner it will happen .... I can only put out my thoughts into the stream of consciousness but I cannot personally change the thoughts of others .... I can hope that somewhere in time and space they will touch someone else .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine

 

[Phoenix72]

pohaikawahine,

Now we're beginning to communicate. I'm feeling that we've been speaking a similar language for some time, but you don't often express your views in any great detail, probably because it leaves you open to deconstructive comments (hopefully not from myself).

Well I'm totally down with the Kundalini, Caduceus, serpent symbolism, it does relate to the aquarian age change very heavilly in all the mythology I can find, so this sits well with the large view. I also find much to do with the change of mankind like yourself also, try checking a discountinued book called "Unknown Man", mysterious birth of a new species, by Yatri. Has some really cool stuff about this and from a very detached sciencey view point as well which is nice. Has one interesting bit about the energies that radiate out from the head that can be photographed (not using some rubbish hippy scope) it connects to the whole bird theme we find at the top of the Caduceus/Ygdrasil/kundalini/world tree/crucifix element.

I'd like Homo Sapiens to become Homo Novus (or what ever) and I feel that this will happen (soon), and I'd be stoked if this was a spiritual burn as you suggest, I find this theory very plausable. I do also feel however that the input science had made to the discoveries of the Earths and Suns regular polar reversals has a hand to play, wether this is just the cause of said spiritual burn or the cause of the physical burn, remains to be seen. this must be conceded as we are dealing with intangibles and the interpretation of symbols.

But as you do live on an island surrounded by Volcanos (Im assuming) please take a holiday on any specific date you feel important to our discussion (mine would be 2012) this would make me feel better.

Peace.

P72

 

[Pathless]

...Well I'm totally down with the Kundalini, Caduceus, serpent symbolism, it does relate to the aquarian age change very heavilly in all the mythology I can find, so this sits well with the large view. I also find much to do with the change of mankind like yourself also, try checking a discountinued book called "Unknown Man", mysterious birth of a new species, by Yatri. Has some really cool stuff about this and from a very detached sciencey view point as well which is nice. Has one interesting bit about the energies that radiate out from the head that can be photographed (not using some rubbish hippy scope) it connects to the whole bird theme we find at the top of the Caduceus/Ygdrasil/kundalini/world tree/crucifix element.

I'd like Homo Sapiens to become Homo Novus (or what ever) and I feel that this will happen (soon), and I'd be stoked if this was a spiritual burn as you suggest, I find this theory very plausable. I do also feel however that the input science had made to the discoveries of the Earths and Suns regular polar reversals has a hand to play, wether this is just the cause of said spiritual burn or the cause of the physical burn, remains to be seen. this must be conceded as we are dealing with intangibles and the interpretation of symbols.

Hi,

I've been reading a book lately entitled Infinite Mind: Science of the Human Vibrations of Consciousness by Dr Valerie Hunt. She talks about both of the highlighted things in the above quote--scieintifically measuring the aura or bio-electric-magnetic field that surrounds a person, and how both electricity and magnetism affect consciousness (although consciousness is a bit of an inadequate term for the effects that she describes ). This is interesting in light of the discussion of the shifting of the magnetic poles of the earth. It is my current opinion that such a magnetic shift would have a profound and transformational effect on humanity. Right now, I won't get into the debate as to whether that would be traumatic/destructive or gentle/constructive, because I need to grab a shower and go to work.

Peace,
Pathless

 

[pohaikawahine]

aloha e P72 .... thank you for the reference to the book, I will check it out .... and actually I live in California .... although I was born in Hawaii and raised in the South Pacific .... but home is home, and the islands I always consider home .... thank you also for the further explanation of your thoughts on changes to come .... I have certainly enjoyed this thread .... aloha nui, pohaikawahine

 

[iBrian]

the bible for instance, a book that was written by a bunch of pagan astrologer priests (essenes, Qumran) who were aware of precession, suddenly producing a book advocating a patriarchal system and the supplanting of the Goddess. Why? because they were aware of the coming age of masculine energy and the only way to preserve the myths was to package them and market it to a masculine society until the Aquarian age arrived.

The Bible was not written by "pagan astrologers priests" - the Old Testament was written by Jews, and the New Testament by early Christians. Also I don't believe there is any evidence of the Essenes having a direct role in composing those texts. Overall of which makes your assertions non-sensical.

bgruarch's concerns are quite real - you're claiming a general apocalyptic scenrio across world mythologies, but that is simply not true, and Ben has helped to illustrate that.

As for relying on the Mayan Prophecies - you could do well to find an original third-party source from the Mayans themselves - the "Mayan Prophecies" book doesn't even support it's own claims - it seems people use it as a form of wish-fulfillment to assert a coming apocalypse.

It seems that this is what you are trying to do with world mythologies - which while you are entirely welcome to such an opinion, you can only expect it to be challenged by other people who read mythology without inserting their own wish-fulfillments to misrepresent them.

 

[Phoenix72]

Thats quite vehement of you Brian,

The fact is their is more physical proof that the essenes did indeed write the bible, and the whole bible in both parts is just full of rewriten mesopotamian epics, Gilgamesh/Samson, Flood epic even Christ is similar to about 5 other dudes. But this is out of topic and I hardly feel that one personal asertion corrupts the rest of my argument.

bgruarch's concerns are merely trying to poke holes in something that he himself hasn't presented an opinion on yet, if I were to just sit here and poke holes every time someone made an opinion then this wouldn't be much of a thread now would it.

Mayan Propheses? Something I mentioned 2 pages ago, not a central point in my argument, I'll refrain from using it, I like some of Cotterals points but like you say, mostly rubbish.

Now Mythologies, symbolism, careful were you tread here, the aquarian age comes to us from the same sources/myths we are discussing. I certainly have no wish forfillment associated with this, as I have said many times (read back) I dont want this disastrous event I propose (my opinion), happy enlightened age change (something I noticed you didnt challenge) is a much nicer route, bring it on, Ive just been asking for some proof so that I to may embace such a concept, and only pohaikawahine has supplied anything close so far (thanks Poha).

To participate in this tread you must take certain things on board; Precession and mythologies and symbolism connected with this. To understand this you must understand the mechanics and maths of precession and be well aquainted with the cultures that promote this, ie Mayans (cotterals work gives some insight here but there are others like John Major Jenkins who gives the happy viewpoint), Egyptians (Book of the dead, anthony west is good, and graham handcock), Indian Myths (sancrit writtings, hindu myths), mesopotamian, Norse, any culture with a flood epic (thats everybody), the Bible (both halves) plus a liberal dose of astromony.

So if you think I'm misrepresenting, please feel free to challenge any individual misrepresentation rather than poo pooing the whole thing, alot of things have been discussed and many opinons given.

That Bible thing annoyed you, you dont think Im bagging the bible or being anti-semetic do you? Cause Im not.

Peace.

P72

 

[iBrian]

No problem, Phoenix72 - there's probably a few things I'd disagree with, but I'm simply replying in a personal capacity. Disagreeing with the interpretation of the Essenes writing the Bible is simply because I've read more about the early development of the Bible, than say, South American belief systems.

There's a lot of talk about the Age of Aquarius, but I can't help but perceive it as a similar sort of wish-fulfillment we saw in the 1800's - when learned people could start mass followings claiming some fulfillment of apocalyptic prophecy.

 

[bgruagach]

There's a lot of talk about the Age of Aquarius, but I can't help but perceive it as a similar sort of wish-fulfillment we saw in the 1800's - when learned people could start mass followings claiming some fulfillment of apocalyptic prophecy.

Looking through history there are lots and lots and lots of instances where apocalyptic predictions were made, associated with convenient upcoming calendar events (like the change in one calendar or another to a nice round figure like 1800, 1900, or 2000) and then of course when the date came and went without the predicted changes happening the predictions get glossed over and attached to some new date farther in the future.

There are some interesting lists of failed apocalyptic predictions at sites like http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl2.htm and http://www.nhne.com/specialreports/srapocalypse.html and http://www.marsearthconnection.com/predictions.html (which also includes some interesting links to criticisms of the Mayan calendar claims.)

 

[Time traveler 3168]

Why? This is what I ask myself whenever reality represents itself to me in its many shapes and forms. In respect to topics such as the age of aquarius it is imposible to show something unless you have hard evidence and that is hard to do. You can tell me the moon is made of cheese and i will say 'prove it?" . The universe to my understanding is based apon a series of positives and negatives integrating with one another to create and destroy at the same time. Day turns into night, man and women join to create one, and even the binary code ( zeros and ones combined- 01101010 ) are some of many instances where the universe has the power of manifestation when combining these two force.

Now if I were into all that astrological gobleegook I might say that we are coming out of Pisces and going into Aquarius which most people already know. great! Now what does this mean, this new age of light and understanding the earth will enter? At the moment in response to religions and beliefs around at the moment (and I mean this with all due respect and am only quoting peoples true beliefs relating to their seperate religions-belief systems) but there are at least 10 messiahs or coming of a chosen one/ teacher/ buddah/Jesus type figure seen in all forms, storys,mythologies, religions, fairytales etc. Now if all the religions of the world are expecting a redeemer type character to re-appear, and they are all correct then you see the problem. Yes, most of the religions have similar storys, the flood epic, the chosen one who returns, and a basic archetypal theme. And what of the new information around at this and the capacity to get it? Everything changes as do beliefs.

This whole thing about 2012 makes me smile as once again we have 100's of beliefs surrounding it; what about the facts? Yes the mayan callender says 2012 and yes apperently a comet named Nibiru (The mythology of tiamat the destroyer is based on this comet and its effects when passing) a comet said to pass the planet around 2012 that has passed before with devistating consequences.
( http://www.satansrapture.com/nostra2012.htm )
And ofcourse we have the rapture and the "second coming" a major belief of the world. Flood epics are common ( sumerian flood epic, 2000 bc involving gilgamesh and Utnapishtim) http://www.piney-2.com/Gilgamesh.html ,but as for the biblical noacian flood (2350bc) there is clear evidence that a global flood that killed all but those on the ark didnt occur,as many cultures of the earth have histories predating the biblical flood- (Gen 6:17.) However in Gen 9; 8-17 God makes a covenant with Noah and his kin that the earth will never flood again. It is estimated that a 7degreeF increase in polar temperatures would cause the ice caps to melt and its been concluded that global warming by 2030 will increase polar temp by 6 degreesF estimated in a sea rising of 200 feet (61 meters) Lumps of ice are breaking as we speak ( B15A is bigger than new york) and drifting up to the tropics.

http://www.landcareresearch.co.nz/research/biodiversity/penguins/b15a.asp

This is all but the tip of the , forget about it- as you can see you can throw things up forever and get knowhere fast and I havent even touched on bible numerology yet and wont bother touching that 66 part book, not to be confused with the 666 mark of the beast and nothing to do with letters of the Greek alphabet spelling lord jesus christ then breaking them down to there numerics = 3168. The number 3168 is superabundant, the Pythagorean term for a number which is exceeded by the sum of its factors. The sum of all the numbers which divide into 3168 is 6660, connecting the number of the Lord Jesus Christ with that of the Beast of Revelation." 316.8 as the number of feet in the circumference of the lintel ring at Stonehenge and the perimeter square of St. Mary's Chapel in Glastonbury, which relates to the 31680 miles of the perimeter square around the Earth or the number of furlongs of its mean radius. Then there the earths speed in orbit around the sun at 66600 mph, http://www.enter.net/~wxdata/earth2.htm but hey, what do numbers have to do with it?

Now Im really getting knowhere fast and shall end this soon.

It would be nice to enter this age of aquarius with a new understanding and peace and respect for others,but im a realist. There are two ways that the whole thing can change as I see it and we arent taking the passive road. Dark and light together will take us through but i see a dark time ahead, then an age of enlightenment. What I dont see now are minds changing where it counts in governments and positions of power to implement positive changes. Wars have gone beyond there normal level of savagery, we continue to mine and pollute the waters and land feed us and have created weapons that could destroy humanity many times over.

I hope one day soon the world decides to end all wars, burn all weapons, change peacefully to a new level of understanding, or its choice number two which unfortunatley is the current status and direction we are heading. There is no in between. Yeah, we are going to enter Aquarius peacefully, watching weapons burn, totally tolerant of others holding hands in a circle while we sing "We are the world"

Hmm?

 

[Phoenix72]

Looking through history there are lots and lots and lots of instances where apocalyptic predictions were made, associated with convenient upcoming calendar events (like the change in one calendar or another to a nice round figure like 1800, 1900, or 2000) and then of course when the date came and went without the predicted changes happening the predictions get glossed over and attached to some new date farther in the future.

There are some interesting lists of failed apocalyptic predictions at sites like http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl2.htm and http://www.nhne.com/specialreports/srapocalypse.html and http://www.marsearthconnection.com/predictions.html (which also includes some interesting links to criticisms of the Mayan calendar claims.)

bgruagach, I agree, there have been many false predictions about the end of the world mostly by Judeo Christians it would seem, not surprizing really given the gory last book of the bible, no body else seems to have the level of interest in their own demise. But none of them (if I may beat a dead horse a little more) sights any reference to precession, which is what this thread is all about, yet the really ancient cultures were obsessed with it where as the more ignorant christian saints and popes knew almost nothing about it, strange though that their central text (the bible) yells precession at you with every turn.

I cant and dont want to, tell you world is going to end. I can say however that precession is closely linked with destruction. It would be nice to take pohaikawahine's view, though I swing to the polar option, or whether it is an asteriod like Time traveler says it might be, though that is harder to explain a change in global mind set. The Tiamat asteriod thing smells alot like other serpent mythology as well, their does always seem to be the serpent involved, but like pohaikawahine says thats a very kundalini like reference.

Time traveler, I see the bible numerics thing as an important link in this story but without the appropriate understanding of the way that hebrew and greek convert directly into numbers (they didn't have a proper numeric system other than letters) then you'll be here forever and need a whole new thread to explain it, Im into it but its a big story. I dig the mathematic connection though, nothing proves so easilly as numbers as intangible as they seem.

One of the guys who writes about a happy aquarian transition, John Major Jenkins, says we are about to hit the closest point on the massive 26 000 (yes its precession related) elipse around the centre of our galaxy, but I'd like an astronomers opinion on that, any astronomers out there?

P72

 

[Time traveler 3168]

The ancient Maya understood this 26,000 year cycle to be specifically composed of 5 lesser cycles, each 5,125 years each. Each of these 5 cycles was considered its own World Age or Creation Cycle. As depicted on the familiar, circular MesoAmerican Sun Stone, (often called the Aztec Calendar) each Creation Cycle is said to have been ruled and destroyed by one of 5 elements. Specifically, 4 Jaguar, 4 Wind, 4 Rain, 4 Water. ​

Our present great cycle (3113 B.C. - 2012 A.D.) is called the Age of the Fifth Sun. This time period is ruled by 4 Earth. This fifth age is the synthesis of the previous four. 4 Earth (called Caban in the Maya language and Ollin in Aztec) has several meanings, including: movement, shift, evolution, and earthquake. In Mayan calendrics, theinitial date that Earth entered the Fifth World was August 13, 3113 BC, written in Mayan long count notation as 13.0.0.0.0. Every day from that point was reckoned by the number of days passed since the event of this cosmic beginning point.

"August 13, 3113 BC is as precise and accurate as one can get for a beginning of history: the first Egyptian dynasty is dated to ca 3100 BC; the first 'city,' Uruk, in Mesopotamia, also ca 3100 BC; the Hindu Kali Yuga, 3102 BC; and most interestingly, the division of time into 24 hours of 60 minutes each and each minute into 60 seconds [and the division of the circle into 360 degrees], also around 3100 BC, in Sumeria. If the beginning of history was so accurately placed, then must not the end of history, December 21, 2012 also be as accurate?"

Nibiru ( The comet ) is said to have a 3600 yr flight path and yes as stated passes 2012. http://www.halexandria.org/dward799.htm
Ofcourse 3600 divided into our 26000 yr cycle gives us 7.22222. Ha-ha! Theres that number again which itself is 1/5 of 360 degrees or one of the 5 ages ( 72x 5= 360 ) Synchronicity is beautiful.

All these numbers with all these conections, the universe seems to work like the parts on a machine, bigger ones spining little ones or maybe its just coincidence.



Peace and understanding

 

[bgruagach]

Jewish and Christian scripture/mythology are hardly the only examples of rather bloody accounts. If you read Hindu myth (such as the stuff about Kali just as one example), Greek myths, Roman myths, Egyptian myths, the myths of the various South and Central American cultures, you'll find lots and lots of examples of very bloody conflicts and rather grotesque descriptions.

The Mayan calendar was created by a culture that was clearly mathematically and astronomically sophisticated. They aren't the only ones to identify time in terms of cycles. Even mathematically and astronomically unsophisticated cultures know that time moves in cycles -- day and night, the lunar month, the annual cycle of the seasons. Physics and mathematics are the language of the physical realm so it's no suprise that they can be used to describe natural cycles. And it's no surprise that humans universally notice the things that are around us, including natural cycles, and include mentions of those things in our art, myth, and religion.

The problem I have is with the attaching of apocalyptic predictions to what is merely one handy timekeeping notation on a clock or calendar. Many people have predicted all sorts of things because some calendar or other was coming up to a "significant" digit -- and as we've mentioned, how many of those were correct? The fact we're still here talking at all says to me that the apocalyptic predictions of the past were not accurate...

It's romantic to say that THESE particular predictions are more important because they seem to tie in to various mythological images drawn from around the world. Those same myths have been used countless times before to back up other apocalyptic claims, and they were wrong then too. I haven't seen anything that convinces me that the claims are more accurate this time around. I won't be planning my personal life around the date when the Mayan calendar flips over from 12:59 to 01:00.

 

[iBrian]

Hi Time Traveller - can you quote an actual reference from Mesopotamian texts referring to Nibiru as a comet?

As for the exact dates used - this is a big part of the problem - they come across as entirely arbitrary - anyone claiming that August 13th 3113 BC as the beginning of History is invariably going to be categorised in the Bishop Ussher camp of wish fulfillment. The further back you go into history, the fewer the certainties, not greater.

On the subject of predictions - I predict a revisionist movement in 2013 that reinvents the Mayan calendar and Nibiru events to push the dates further forward - 2017 at the very least, though 2032 would correlate with a well-publicised comet-warning and so is likely to be picked up by someone happy to make unsubstantiated claims, who will be unquestioningly quoted as an authoritative source on the issue across the New Age movement.

Hm...that sounds perhaps overly cycnical, but prophecies of an apocalyspe seem inherently revisionist by nature. Heck, even the big return of Jesus was imminent nearly 2,000 years ago.

Back to the Age of Aquarius - wasn't the symbolism that an era of peace and understanding would come upon us? If so, why is it politically that the world is moving towards a police state feeding the population with fear? Is the Age of Aquarius really supposed to look like 1984 when it comes into being proper? Because seems the general political direction.

 

[Time traveler 3168]

Greetings Brian,

There is more evidence to show Nibiru is referenced as a planet, often called a comet or also known as a comet/planet.I was taking a safe path refering to it as a comet as it easier to believe a comet is going to pass the earth not some comet/planet almost the size of Jupiter, and jupiter is 11 times the diameter of the earth. Depending on where you look is what you find on the subject, some sources calling nibiru the destroyer others saying the earth (Tiamat) was struck by the planet Marduk; the sumerian nibiru. You can call it a block of chocolate as far as im concered as names are not important to me. When I fly I try to keep my feet on the ground and if this one about Nibiru, marduk, whatever we will call it is real, then we will all see it in the skys years before 2012 when its passes the closest ( If its real ofcourse ) to the earth. Apparentley observitories will be able to begin to see her in 2006. Information is such that it never stays the same, and this one I hope will not happen.

The Age of aquarius issue?
Yes we do seem to be our furtherest distance away from this new age of enlightenment, Fear the main agenda but ofcourse a tiger is at its most fierce at its end. Like I said before , I believe, and here I go again; that we are about to experience the worst the planet has seen and will be responsible for most of it, except maybe small mountain sized fragments hurtling toward earth from a passing planet/comet which have a very good chance of hitting the ocean and estimated to release the same power as a 1000 megaton nuke. Something radical would have to happen to change things to the sweet aroma of aquarius or we blow each other to pieces with the worst war mankind has ever seen ( how much worse can weapons get nukes being top of the scale) and those that survive that time of pain will walk away saying " !@$# that for a game of soldiers, lets live in peace cos that really hurt".

The Dark sharpens the light.

Once again , is mankind enlightened enough to burn its weapons and its hate before its too late?

Nah! dont be silly.

Someone prove to me its all turning around, there is no coming new age/ apocalypse/ day of tribulation/ rapture/comet planet/major change, whatever u call it.

Nothing will change,we are going to stay the same ,I will forever be able to get up in the morning and watch the war on TV while eat my cocopops,yeah?

No wonder jesus wept

TT 3168

 

[Phoenix72]

Jewish and Christian scripture/mythology are hardly the only examples of rather bloody accounts. If you read Hindu myth (such as the stuff about Kali just as one example), Greek myths, Roman myths, Egyptian myths, the myths of the various South and Central American cultures, you'll find lots and lots of examples of very bloody conflicts and rather grotesque descriptions.

The problem I have is with the attaching of apocalyptic predictions to what is merely one handy timekeeping notation on a clock or calendar. Many people have predicted all sorts of things because some calendar or other was coming up to a "significant" digit -- and as we've mentioned, how many of those were correct? The fact we're still here talking at all says to me that the apocalyptic predictions of the past were not accurate...

bgruagach you just finished telling me that these examples of destruction were "obscure mythology", Im sure you dont have to remind me of the bloody myths mate, its my entire argument.

And if you are going to refer to a 26000 year cycle clock as a "handy time keeping notation" then Im guessing when you get to work its give or take 150 years or so.

We're not attaching the worlds apocalyptic senarios to a convenient digit the work was done thousands of years ago and was spelled out in no uncertain terms. Either you think the age of aquarius is a load of nonsence (perfectly reasonable argument) or you accept the other less desirable consequences of such an event. Not that I want them.

Yes people seem to predict the end of the world on a bimonthly basis, mostly relgious zealots if you look closely, but when ancient myth, astro clocks (however handy), and science all start pointing the finger, I tend to ask a few questions, a wait for the answers from the universe and my peers, so more constructive dialoge please.

Back to the Age of Aquarius - wasn't the symbolism that an era of peace and understanding would come upon us? If so, why is it politically that the world is moving towards a police state feeding the population with fear? Is the Age of Aquarius really supposed to look like 1984 when it comes into being proper? Because seems the general political direction.

This comes to exactly what I've been saying Brian, the whole Era of peace thing is actually much less prevalent in those same myths than the destruction, and the Orwellian future you see is looking ever so real without the cleanse.

I try not to be as sad with the present state as Time Traveler but there is no examples of an era of peace so far...

...perhaps we need a fire lit under us?

P72

 

[pohaikawahine]

my goodness how this dialogue floats back and forth between hope and dismay .... the age of aquarius will be just as we have been told from the start, a time of peace and enlightnment .... and perhaps we need a fire lit 'inside' of us .... that spiralling energy within us (that I spoke of some postings back) must pass through a part of our brain called the "fornix" which in sybolism would be the "furnace" .... there is a reference in the old ways of hawaii nei which is connected with my family name KALAMA and this word means "the night light" .... it is the torch made of LAMA wood which was carried in the night to lead the way to the meetings where things of importance were discussed .... but that is a symbol of the inner light and the path to the mountaintop .... many traditions have similar symbols of this light be it oil in a lamp that never goes out, or many others .... when more of us begin the process of moving this energy in the body, the vibration of the planet will change .... if we change our minds, we can and will change our world and move smoothly into the Age of Aquarius .... but we must keep our focus on this path, if you keep going back to thought of doom as the only possibility then the passage will be more difficult .... each of you holds the seeds of this knowledge, look beneath the texts that you read and begin to see with your inner eyes .... you must be able to see behind the veil ....

here is a quote that I just received about 10 minutes ago .... thought it might be appropriate for this site on comparative religions ....

"

28/11/2005
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Keep Faith
To limit your faith to one set of beliefs or an institutional belief system is to commit intellectual suicide. We shut down the possibility of being enlightened and enriched by others' experiences, which may be derived from their beliefs. We build a barrier between ourselves and our fellow travellers and then feel threatened, even in small and subtle ways, by someone of a different faith. The deepest faith is the intuitive conviction that all is as it should be, despite appearances, and that every human being is intrinsically good, despite appearances. This reminds us to keep our minds open, not take the law into our own hands, and look out for the best in others, regardless of what they say or do. This is faith in life, not faith in a set of learned or inherited beliefs. Have you ever noticed how people don't go to war over their faith in life? ​

something for all of us to think about .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine

​

 

[Pathless]

Thank you, pohaikawahine, my friend, for this breath of fresh air in an otherwise bitter and bickering dialogue. Your words are clear, concise, full of light, hope, and a simple truth that inspires.

We can choose to argue semantics and details, be pedantic about the way the Shift of Ages will unfold--will it end in fire, ice, chocolate, dogpoop?--but pohaikawahine speaks truth when (s)he says:

my goodness how this dialogue floats back and forth between hope and dismay .... the age of aquarius will be just as we have been told from the start, a time of peace and enlightnment .... and perhaps we need a fire lit 'inside' of us .... that spiralling energy within us....

...when more of us begin the process of moving this energy in the body, the vibration of the planet will change .... if we change our minds, we can and will change our world and move smoothly into the Age of Aquarius .... but we must keep our focus on this path, if you keep going back to thought of doom as the only possibility then the passage will be more difficult .... each of you holds the seeds of this knowledge, look beneath the texts that you read and begin to see with your inner eyes .... you must be able to see behind the veil ....

Perhaps as world events become more cataclysmic, the potential for catalyzing change and truly transforming increases dramatically. This is my current working theory, being tested in the laboratory of my life. I am fortunate enough to find myself in an environment that is extremely conducive to being able to express myself, my own heart-truth, freely. Now more than ever--even with Dubya in the White House counting his Desert Storm trading cards and playing GI Joe, with the media trying to shape our mass consciousness into a jello mold fit to consume the latest Christmas gifts and flavors of the month, with the environment warbling out of of control--especially in the midst of all of this, we can choose a different way of being.

I do believe that there is a change occuring in consciousness and in the fabric of reality; the world is being transformed, and there's no stopping that, even though there is much resistance. As the old schemas, perceptions, and paradigms no longer fit the higher expression that is coming into focus on this planet, they rage and drag their feet, creating violent ripples: wars, poverty, natural disasters, a culture of fear. These ripples are real and frightening. But they cannot last. They are the death-throes of a maladaptive way of being, one that has gone on too long.

Yes, there is violence and there is fear. It will pass. I choose to believe that the more I create a wholesome environment around me, I too create ripples, and these ripples are much, much stronger than the ripples of Bush and Katrina, much stronger than Darfour and the Taliban, much stronger than terrorism in all of its forms.

We are all sending ripples out all of the time. We are all affecting reality with how we express ourselves. Be mindful of your expressions, and be compassionate with yourselves and others. The Shift that is happening--some call it the Age of Aquarius, some the Rapture, some 2012, some the Second Coming, and to steal a phrase from Time Traveler, you can call it a block of chocolate for all I care (because, well, chocolate is yum!)--this Shift is an attunement to the universal energy of Love. Fear is not supported anymore. We are all going to let go of our fear.

28/11/2005

Keep Faith
To limit your faith to one set of beliefs or an institutional belief system is to commit intellectual suicide. We shut down the possibility of being enlightened and enriched by others' experiences, which may be derived from their beliefs. We build a barrier between ourselves and our fellow travellers and then feel threatened, even in small and subtle ways, by someone of a different faith. The deepest faith is the intuitive conviction that all is as it should be, despite appearances, and that every human being is intrinsically good, despite appearances. This reminds us to keep our minds open, not take the law into our own hands, and look out for the best in others, regardless of what they say or do. This is faith in life, not faith in a set of learned or inherited beliefs. Have you ever noticed how people don't go to war over their faith in life?
​

​

 

[taijasi]

Beautiful quote, pohaikawahine!

It does indeed seem that folks are vacillating back & forth as we try to incorporate many ideas into an overall framework or understanding of the New Era of Aquarius. I wanted to toss out a few thoughts for perspective's sake, if I may be so bold.

I have a very limited understanding of astrological cycles, but my studies in this area have mostly focused on esoteric astrology (and astronomy) - and especially seeing how ancient ideas (whether Hindu, Christian/Kabbalistic, Egyptian, Tibetan, or otherwise) mesh with the findings of modern science from the Copernical/Galilean Revolution to present. Also, my background is Theosophical, with much study of the writings of Alice Bailey, Helena Roerich, David Anrias, Dane Rudhyar, and Alan Leo (all of these being esotericists & recent esoteric astrologers). So here's my take:

We can trace the familiar, 12-sign celestial zodiac backwards if we accept tentatively that indeed, we are still transitioning, generally speaking, into the Aquarian Age. The cycles do come quite close to 2100 years each (25,000/12), and this figure is ascertained by accepting that our Sun revolves around another center ... just as our planet (and all of them) revolve around the Sun. This is, of course, pure astronomy through & through - undisputed by modern science.

The greater & lesser zodiac refer to the splitting of the celestial sphere into 12 "slices," just as you slice an orange - especially those chocolate kind which come out around Xmas time and which you hafta slam on the table to open. They're neat.

So in three dimensions, that's the zodiac - with our Sun at the center of the lesser zodiac. Earth passes through each sign (30 degrees out of a 360 degree circle, or sphere) every ~30.5 days. Our year comes quite close to matching the degrees of the circle, so each month dovetails quite nicely with a "sign." And remember, this is still science ... whereas the discussion of constellations as animal figures or Heroes from mythology becomes astrology (but no less scientific, from an esoteric point of view).

It's very helpful, for me at least, to be able to picture all of this from "outside the Solar System" as it were, before trying to factor in the changes we're considering at the emotional, psychological, and spiritual levels. Granted, that's what really matters - and that's what "turns the wheels" of this rather intricate machinery to begin with - but if we start with what our eyes & external senses (eg, circadian rhythms, etc.) tell us, understanding comes much easier.

Just as there is a lesser zodiac, there is a Greater Zodiac, this time with another entity at its center ... an entity greater than our Sun, whether we consider this purely in terms of (exoteric) science, or as a matter of metaphysics (esoteric science). This is the cycle that lasts ~25000 years, roughly split into 2100 year signs, or Ages.

We can trace these backwards, and for anyone with a Christian background or worldview, I find it helpful to map a few correspondences with Biblical history. We've been in the Piscean Era for ~2100 years now, symbolized by the fishes. Consider: Wasn't it true that early Xians would trace a fish symbol in the sand to acknowledge their understanding (as mutual Xians)? And is it not true that Christ chose among his Apostles quite a number of fishermen ... whom he also set out to make fishers of men?

A skeptic will call this coincidence, or point out that many people in the area were fishermen by trade - but I submit that the Gospel stories are carefully written & selected for their rich symbolism. Further, the timing is actually quite on the mark. Esoteric records indicate (as will one day be proven beyond a modicum of doubt) that the man Jesus of Nazareth was actually born about 105 years prior to the commonly accepted date. Some have suggested ~4BC, and this idea is increasingly popular - so perhaps the door is being opened, if only slightly, to further research.

Anyway, if 105BC is the correct date, then we are right on time for entering the next sign - often hailed by the advent (sic) of a World Teacher, or way-shower. As a true aside, I believe ardently that 80 years or so ago, the Christ did actually make an effort to reappear in outer form among Humanity. The experiment was a partial success, though it was an early attempt - and ultimately things did not work out. Because of the way these endeavors are made, another will not likely come to fruition until ~2025. This is right on the mark chronologically with the 2100-year cycle, and if the world is ready for Him, I do think the World Teacher will return.

But several things are happening at once, some resonating and augmenting each other in a positive way, others creating a conflict of energies and signalling the end of outworn patterns ... while unfortunately there is also a certain measure of cataclysm that is unavoidable because of the (overall positive) transition(s) that we are making. We know good and well, intuitively, that if many of our practices (ecologically, politically, as consumers, etc.) have been unsustainable in the recent past - then sooner or later these tendencies have got to change!!! To refuse to yield, or to adjust our methods of living, is not simply to invite disaster, it is to guarantee it! This is but the Law of Karma, or of Cause & Effect, which Christ taught plain & simply. Every great teacher has emphasized it, yet always there is a reluctance to accept that yes, it applies to us/me too! It's kind of the, "we'll never have an earthquake/tornado/flood/etc. here" syndrome. But there is no escaping the fact that as we sow, we shall reap!

And that is part & parcel of esoteric science & astrology. Humanity always bears the collective Karma of its forbears, accepting a greater & greater load as we become able to handle it maturely. And we're nowhere near ready to wipe clean the slate completely at this point. But just as individuals reincarnate with the blessing of a clean conscience, the innocence of a free memory (of specific past misdeeds), and a recognition of the Innate Goodness within us all, so likewise groups of Humanity (as Nations) are reborn Era after Era with a fresh start and a new impetus/momentum to press forward spiritually ... by learning from yesterday's mistakes and choosing a wiser course for the future. We just seem so damn stubborn!

Without daring to try and explain the Hindu cycles, or Yugas (Satya, Treta, Dvapara, Kali, in the ratio 4:3:2:1 in terms of length), it can safely be said that the Western world is in its Kali Yuga - or cycle of darkness (`Black Age,' or 'Iron Age'). The times are the bleakest, from an outward point of view, but we must remember that these cycles are natural, or "God-made," and in no wise constitute any form of "punishment" (such a notion being foreign to an accurate understanding of Deity). The Kali Yuga, as some reckon it, has about 427,000 more years remaining, since after Sri Krishna's death its 432,000 years began. But this should not be cause for despair, and we should not assume that no good will occur within humanity during this period! Nothing could be further from the truth.

What we can observe, and this is quite objective, is that we are undergoing a great deal of turmoil at present ... and the physical planet is not free of the effects of the strain. Weather patterns are changing, karma is working out onto physical levels in ways that cause much distress, and there is all the upheaval that goes with the Biblical notion of Armageddon. One Teacher of the Ageless Wisdom even indicates a date - 1936 - as being of signficance, and points out that it is also found in the Pyramid of Cheops. We know quite well what great event was precipitated in that year and for the decade that followed. But the War is not over, and the divisiveness so prevalent in American group consciousness at present is a sad indication of just how much change is sorely needed before we can manifest the Aquarian energies in their full.

To revisit the idea of zodaical cycles as these overlap with Biblical history, since many are familiar with that lens of understanding, consider that before the fishes of Pisces on the zodaical wheel ... came Aries the Ram. The call of the shofar, or ram's horn, was well-known in ancient times. Also, Christ is proclaimed as the ram, or lamb of God. Again, these are no coincidence. Follow along in your Bibles and concordances, and note that Moses lived in the time when people worshipped a golden calf. This is the bull of Taurus, preceding Aries the ram in the celestial (Greater) zodiac.

Christians (and all) would do well to recognize that the lessons of the Zodiac, as expressed in all world mythologies (eg, the Twelve Labors of Hercules), are Universal. The macrocosm has its microcosmic reflection, such that the Stars above, do affect our little lives, below. This is not some mystical, curious, inexplicable relationship ... but a simple matter of science. We know how profound are the effects of the moon (a dead, inert body - esoterically a negative influence, in fact) upon our planet - both physically, and psychologically (even spiritually, as every good astrologer can ascertain). How much more tremendously then, will be the influence of the greater globes in our Solar System ... which esoteric astrology describes as all being `schemes of evolution' unto themselves - exactly the way our little planet Earth supports life. Just because the type of life on most of the other planets is vastly superior to organic life on earth - and therefore existing in subtler (more spiritual, or invisible) worlds ... does not mean that these evolutions are less signficant. No - just the opposite!

And for a proper understanding of the transition from Pisces to Aquarius, we need to take note (and do your own research, if you like) that planets such as Neptune (focusing the 6th-Ray energy of Pisces) and Uranus (transmitter in our Solar System of 7th-Ray, or Aquarian, energy) figure prominently. Again, I know little of such things, but I do know that the energies involved (and it is a much deeper matter than simply two energies meshing, or conflicting) - are quite objective. Some degree of study and investigation will reveal to the sincere student that his or her entire being is conditioned by these Rays (there are Seven) ... every cell, every thought, and every atom!

Understanding such notions as Ray energies (or the subtler aspects of our spiritual constitution) require that we step out of the illusion that "we are the face in the mirror," or even that "we are the person behind the face in the mirror." As practitioners of Vipassana meditation often discover, the more at-peace we become with ourselves, the better we are enabled to see our thoughts rising and falling, almost as little waves in the ocean of mind. We learn to "still the waters" and then, as we look for the Observer - at first we cannot "see" or detect anything! This frightens some people, especially if we have been taught to cling so tenaciously to our various pet notions of self.

There is an Observer - and "it" is the greater part (say, 99.9%?) of our being. But every attempt we make to objectify this Greater Self ... is doomed to failure, just as every mystic that has ever attempted to express her experience of the Divine - has realized that her effort would be in vain. But does this mean we should not try, once we have been afforded a glimpse, to share our Vision? Certainly not. We just need to make sure we don't objectify the experience itself, or it's various "components." How do we talk about that which is beyond (deeper than) our daily awareness? Especially when many people have not yet had such experiences ... or when perhaps others have had them, but are coming from a different wisdom tradition, or from no particular religious background at all? It can be difficult.

But the very fact that many, many more people than ever before - vast numbers - have been having spiritual experiences, and sharing deeply the zeitgeist at a profound level (that of Unity/Buddhi, or Oneness/Nirvana), is evidence unto itself that we are entering the Aquarian Age. The Eras come and go, cyclically, as always. This is nothing New. Indeed, as some have pointed out, the "New Age" is much of it just fluff, even nonsense.

There is always a tremendous amount of glamour (astral illusion, hype) surrounding the release of new awareness(es) into outer experience. For instance, the astral glamours get stirred whenever one speaks of Theosophical mahatmas and out-of-body travels. These are not what the New Era is about, although unquestionably the Masters will draw near (and reappear, outwardly), as the time is right. But Humanity must first make peace with herself, and the warring members of the one body must learn to stop fighting - and join hands in prayer. The World Teacher (Christ, the Bodhisattva & future Buddha) cannot do for us what we are not ready to do for ourselves. Even if the proffered hand is ready to do 99% of the work - it cannot do for us the 1% that is our Dhamic obligation, or necessity. I believe you will find ... that this is Biblical, as well as common sense, intuitive.

So we could go on & on about dates, and cycles, and so forth ... but I find it helpful enough just knowing that this is one of the most awesome moments in human history, and that anyone alive within this 200-year span or so is in damn good company ... because even in my limited experience, I've met some very old souls, and some wonderful Teachers & students. They're good friends - and most of them work ceaselessly, in total self-sacrifice, to usher in the New Era ... without skipping a beat as the world around them misunderstands, finds fault, or simply makes excuses for not "getting involved." Humanity will truly be Aquarian (and this may be a few Greater cycles away) when not a living soul says, "That's not my job," but instead asks, "How may I serve you?"

Love, Light & Peace,

protokletos
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