Hi Wil —
Gotta love it! He meant you too!
Whoa, fellah! Take a breathe there!
From past discussions it's evident that you jump on any text that can be read to mean, "hey, Wil, you're a god, dude!' — John 10:34, Acts 17:28 for example (you know 'em, you cite 'em often).
Your most recent "everything I have done you can do and more" is in your head, it's not in the Bible. Take the rose-tinted glasses off, and let's backtrack to the discourse
and look at the context, something, dare I say, you seem wilfully to ignore. But fear not ...
"Let not your heart be troubled. You believe in God, believe also in me." (v1).
That's believe in me Jesus, Wil, not believe in me Wil.
"In my Father's house there are many mansions. If not, I would have told you: because I go to prepare a place for you. And if I shall go, and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and will take you to myself; that where I am, you also may be." (v2-3).
So ontologically we're talking about 'being in God', which does indeed infer theosis, or deification. But note that He does that, He prepares the house for you, and we will have to relocate to that house. He is not coming to live in our house, which is the point I think you miss every time, we must go and live in His. It's what metanoia (change of heart) is all about. Home is where the heart is. We build houses on sand — in time and space and the ephemeral and contingent — He builds houses in Eternity.
Big point: Our house is one of many houses, many mansions. What is being spoken of here is Infinite Subjectivity. Now God is beyond the object/subject discourse, but it's a useful metaphor. God is not an object, God defies categorisation. Love cannot be objectified, Love is not the known, it's a way of knowing.
So the 'many mansions' talks of ... now this is taking me way off the point into a Eriugenean discourse on the theophany of subjectivity, so I'll stop here.
"And whither I go you know, and the way you know." (v4). Because they know Him, although my namesake still misses the point:
"Thomas saith to him: Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?" (v5).
And He says:
"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me." (v6)
See where this is heading? It's all about Him, Wil. He goes on:
"If you had known me, you would without doubt have known my Father also: and from henceforth you shall know him, and you have seen him. Philip saith to him: Lord, shew us the Father, and it is enough for us. Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me? Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou, shew us the Father? Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works." (v7-10).
The sentence is conditional, it begins 'If ...' So the actuality is the case, we did not know Him, and thus nor the Father. The problem being, as Philip, evidences, that whereas for Christ 'the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works', for us that is not the case.
"Believe you not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? Otherwise believe for the very works' sake." (v11-12).
So here we have it again. The Father is in the Son, and the Son is in the Father, but if you find that hard to believe, because we do not see nor sense this, then believe in what your senses tell you, 'believe for the very works' sake'.
What works? The works that our senses tell us only the Father can do, the miracles: Cure the incurable, give sight to the blind, raise the dead,
forgive the sin ...
Now comes:
"Amen, amen I say to you, he that believeth in me, the works that I do, he also shall do; and greater than these shall he do." (v12)
So, if indeed it is you who will do greater works, it is because
it is the Father who does the work, not you. See? He goes on:
"Because I go to the Father: and whatsoever you shall ask the Father in my name, that will I do: that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you shall ask me any thing in my name, that I will do." (v13-14)
He's saying it again. The Son will effect the works of the Father's will through you, but only if you ask the Father in the Son's name, not in your own name. Your name and mine counts for zip, and our works count for zip.
So that the father may be glorified in the Son, and I cannot help but read you, and you have never corrected me on this point, claiming to do greater works than Jesus
in your own name.
"If you love me, keep my commandments." (v15). Love God. Love your neighbour. Put yourself to one side.
"And I will ask the Father, and he shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you for ever." (v16)
Oh dear. Let me introduce you to that other Paraclete which, in the Christian Tradition we call the Holy Spirit. For ever, by the way, means the Holy Spirit will abide with the Apostles, and the inheritance of the Apostles after they are dead and gone. Something we call Apostolic Tradition. It's the foundation of our faith.
"The spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, nor knoweth him: but you shall know him; because he shall abide with you, and shall be in you." (v17)
The Indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the grace that perfects the nature so that it can see, receive and know.
"I will not leave you orphans, I will come to you." (v20)
In the Sacraments of Grace — the Baptism and the Eucharist.
"Yet a little while: and the world seeth me no more." (v19) The Passion.
"But you see me: because I live, and you shall live." (v19) The Ascension.
"In that day you shall know, that I (the Son) am in my Father, and you in me (you in the Son in the Father), and I (the Son) in you (by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, who, and it is only He who, reveals the Son." (v19-20)
Wil, it is the Father who wills the work; the Son who works the work, and the Holy Spirit who perfects that nature through whom the work is worked.
So, in short, as long as you are full of you, and how great you are, then your heart is centered in yourself, in your old house, and your new mansion, prepared for you, stands empty.
+++
It is up to us to realize our oneness, to make the choice, to decide to dedicate our lives as he did.
Yes, to the glory of the Father, not the glory of one's own existence.
Thomas the bible if full of quotes telling us that G!d is within, that G!d is spirit, that spirit is in us, and without spirit we are dead...
That's your problem, you just snatch out the quote and wave it like a flag. It becomes trite and meaningless because it's lost all context, and ends up a dogma of your own self-affirmation.
Tis a joy to live knowing this whole sinful crap is sinful crap. I can't imagine living under that burden...but admire you for putting up with it.
So the Bible is crap? Morality is a crock of shit? That seems an extreme case of cherry-picking to me.
I mean, Jesus has quite a bit to say about sin. You think all that's crap?
Then, like a fish in the ocean, you're in it, you just don't see it.
We both live under a burden, Wil. Yours is that you want to save yourself, and impress the pants off the world in the process.
I know it in myself, but I carry that burden lightly, because I have faith in a text that is not full of crap, and live in the hope that I am founded in Him.
I am quite impressed by Islam. To become a Moslem, all one has to do is declare it. It's a doddle. But then they go to great lengths to live according to that declaration: declare their love of God to all, proclaim Him as the One, True God, pray, fast, give alms to the poor and succour to the needy, undertake pilgrimage and, dare I say it, jihad — in its true sense, which has become so occluded as to become an esoterism...
If you wanna do the works, Wil, you gotta do the groundwork first. Make straight the way. Prepare the landscape. Lay the foundations.
I don't mean to be tough, or call it tough love if you choose, but it does seem to me that the Gospel According to Wil implies one skips across the mountain tops in a dance of self-affirmation.
I mean, the message is, if Bolt can run the 100 metres in 9, then look out, cos you're gonna run it in the 8s.
God bless,
Thomas
