A date with creation and evolution!

M

martha12

Guest
Once i got this professor in biology who told us about evolution, I am not against him or anything but I will stand on my belief that I did not came from a one single cell amoeba and truly my forefathers are not apes! oh my! I was created beautifully by God and I am not to be expected to believe to those degree holder professors. Sorry if I made this post as an expression board. Thanks to you! I love the story of creation and I don't know what is there basis on there absurd ideas.
 
I agree NCOT, why would it not be agreeable to think that God could take many millions of years to create what we see today? Are we so very set on making a useful mythology into a fact that we are willing to throw away the important lessons and outlooks available to us using a more sophisticated viewpoint?
The stories in religious texts hold a rich treasure for those who can take the time to approach them in the right spirit. Looking at them as factual history depletes the spiritual riches that await the seeker who comes with empty hands and open heart.
Those who choose to study the workings of evolution (personally I'm a big fan of neuroscience) come away with a deeper sense of awe at the wonders of what is. The universe may hold secrets of our beginning that are even more amazing and wonderful than the stories we pass down from generation to generation.
 
Namaste and welcome Martha!

Now we've got no issues discussing your topic, but we've got no need to post the same thing in three different forums. Multiple conversations just get confusing. So if you'd rather it not remain here, simply PM me or tell us which forum you'd like it in. (as I kept this one since it already had responses)
Once i got this professor in biology who told us about evolution, I am not against him or anything but I will stand on my belief that I did not came from a one single cell amoeba and truly my forefathers are not apes! oh my!
You might want to learn a little more. First we are not descendents of Apes...we are distant...way distant cousins a few times removed. We are descendent from the same ancestors. (according to evolution) Now that we've mapped the entire genome of our dna, (by those degree holders which benefit your health regularly) we find we have about 85% the same genes as the typical house fly!
I was created beautifully by God and I am not to be expected to believe to those degree holder professors.
So you prefer that you were taken from the rib of man? You prefer to think that Adam tried all the animals and couldn't find a good help mete so G!d gave it one more try? (Well two if you count Lillith) And exactly who do you believe that Eves son's had kids with?
Sorry if I made this post as an expression board. Thanks to you!
Ah these are wonderful things to contemplate as a Christian or Jew, no rock left unturned is a worthwhile adventure.
I love the story of creation and I don't know what is there basis on there absurd ideas.
I love the story of creation as well. I love the Hindu story, the Native American stories, the aboriginal Australian stories, the African stories, and the Judeo Christian stories, although I wouldn't call their ideas absurd, they all took what they saw in nature, what they saw happening around them and tried to explain the unexplainable.

Again, welcome and I look forward to further discussion.
nicecupoftea said:
why cant both be true ?
exactly... they both have truth to them, and both will be chuckled about in a few hundred years as science further defines what reality is.
 
Another way of looking at it is that we are beings from another plane of existence incarnated into mere biological beings.

Both theories could be true. The biological beings developed from evolution. The foreign beings from another plane fits the creationist theory.

The foreign beings mated with ordinary biological humans, producing spiritual humans.

Adam and Eve started their lives as spiritual (and possibly angelic) beings from another plane, but were cast down, imprisoned in a biological human body and had to live their lives as spiritual humans.

The afterlife is really about escaping this biological prison.

But a problem with this theory is that some humans would not be spiritual, but only biological beings.

I shall therefore introduce a variation of this theory. In this variation, the "evolved ancestor" of humans wasn't truly a product of evolution, but Adam and Eve's children mating with apes and Neanderthals. This is why all humans are spiritual, that there are no "purely biological" humans.

There are no "purely spiritual" humans either. We are all hybrids. All purely spiritual humans were killed in Noah's flood.
 
There are no "purely spiritual" humans either. We are all hybrids. All purely spiritual humans were killed in Noah's flood.

So the 'blend' was the good? And the spiritual/original needed to be destroyed?

And G!d didn't make the earth?

But I thought the garden was on earth and there were no other life forms in the universe....
 
So the 'blend' was the good? And the spiritual/original needed to be destroyed?

And G!d didn't make the earth?

But I thought the garden was on earth and there were no other life forms in the universe....

I think God created a spiritual version of the earth. We are living in the physical version. Adam and Eve were driven out of the spiritual version of the earth.
 
I think God created a spiritual version of the earth. We are living in the physical version. Adam and Eve were driven out of the spiritual version of the earth.

So perhaps then knowledge of good and evil was the decent into dualism losing the pure oneness?
 
Once i got this professor in biology who told us about evolution, I am not against him or anything but I will stand on my belief that I did not came from a one single cell amoeba and truly my forefathers are not apes! oh my! I was created beautifully by God and I am not to be expected to believe to those degree holder professors. Sorry if I made this post as an expression board. Thanks to you! I love the story of creation and I don't know what is there basis on there absurd ideas.

Hi, :)

The theory of evolution is an attempt to explain the origination of species. The basis is rational thinking and research carried out by Darwin. It may seem at odds to your religious beliefs but religion does not completely share the same purposes, although both may be considered attempts at understanding and explanation. Science is constantly testing itself for veracity; Darwin would not I think have stood the test of time if his theory was absurd. As an individual, you have come from just two cells - does that seem absurd to you? And think about the atoms in those two cells - think about their past...
 
"So the 'blend' was the good? And the spiritual/original needed to be destroyed?

And G!d didn't make the earth?

But I thought the garden was on earth and there were no other life forms in the universe...."

--> Our souls were created on Day Six and our physical bodies were created in the Adam and Eve story. The spiritual/original didn't need to be destroyed, it was just too immature and lacking in experiences of the physical world. Once our spiritual/original selves are mature enough and we no longer need experiences of the physical world, we will cast aside our physical bodies forever.
 
I think God created a spiritual version of the earth. We are living in the physical version. Adam and Eve were driven out of the spiritual version of the earth.

So perhaps then knowledge of good and evil was the decent into dualism losing the pure oneness?

"So the 'blend' was the good? And the spiritual/original needed to be destroyed?

And G!d didn't make the earth?

But I thought the garden was on earth and there were no other life forms in the universe...."

--> Our souls were created on Day Six and our physical bodies were created in the Adam and Eve story. The spiritual/original didn't need to be destroyed, it was just too immature and lacking in experiences of the physical world. Once our spiritual/original selves are mature enough and we no longer need experiences of the physical world, we will cast aside our physical bodies forever.
This is getting too good, Salty, can you start your topic in another thread?
 
This is getting too good, Salty, can you start your topic in another thread?

We'd lose the original context!!! That's why it's good to jump onto someone else's bandwagon.

So perhaps then knowledge of good and evil was the decent into dualism losing the pure oneness?

Yes.

Expanding on my theory.......

According to Jewish and Islamic theology, the angels don't have free will and therefore aren't very smart.

Does Judaism Believe in Satan?
Angels in Judaism: Introduction
Islamic view of angels - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is where I introduce my own "innovations" to the story.:)

When Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, they became so much smarter than the angels that they became a threat to God's heavenly realm of angels. Adam and Eve could have become "evil" and started manipulating and tricking the angels into doing naughty things. God could not have the two causing mischief in the heavenly kingdom and that was why God drove them out, not because they disobeyed the command not to eat that forbidden fruit.

The serpent in the garden probably ate the fruit himself. God probably drove him out as well. Many other angels probably ate the fruit as well, but they were not cast into this world.

The difference between humans and the angels is that humans were forced to experience hardship and death in the physical plane. The angels did not get exposure to that experience and therefore could not evolve to respect humanity even if they had tasted the fruit and become smarter.

This is perhaps one of our strengths as humans. We can learn something from World War II and the Holocaust in ways the angels cannot even if they have free will and are just as smart as us.

Being an angel is a bit like playing a computer game. You shoot up a few baddies, get killed but you get to play again right from the start. You never really die because it's just a game. For a human to die it's game over. We don't take life for granted. We play the game from start to finish. There are no second chances. That's why we're better than the angels.

This is where I deviate from Jewish and Islamic theology -- bringing it back to Christian theology.

In the Book of Revelation it says there is a war in heaven.

Because there are angels with free will and angels without free will, humans may play a role in the heavenly war without realising it. The ancient serpent (Satan) who tasted the forbidden fruit became smarter than the other angels and likely saw this as an opportunity to mess up the heavenly kingdom.

Adam and Eve were driven out of heaven/Eden so that they could not mess up the kingdom. This banishment of the human race may be temporary. We may one day be returning to the heavenly kingdom to fight against the serpent. The physical world is like a training ground. The constant threat of death makes us consider our choices carefully. The experience of pain, death and hardship makes us wiser and humbler.

The angels try to influence our thoughts without alerting us to their activity. However, because we are smarter (or wiser) than them, they may be influenced by us in the process. This may be how we affect the heavenly war above.

Perhaps the dead people who went to heaven are participating in that heavenly war as well. The wisdom gained in the world below guard them against following the ways of the serpent. The physical world therefore is not just a training ground, but part of a recruitment process. God foresaw the rebellion of the serpent and drove Adam and Eve out of Eden in anticipation so that they could later be recruited into a resistance movement against the serpent.

The serpent will gather an army of fallen angels and will be defeated by a wretched horde of humans. These humans will be wiser than the angels and will not be deceived by his tricks -- which don't work on humans. Actually, the humans may actually convince some of the fallen angels to return to the light. The serpent will be forced to attack because he's losing converts. His propaganda campaign will fail. His army will desert him and he will finally be driven out of heaven for good.

Meanwhile, in the world below, the apocalypse has begun.

The fallen serpent failed to mess up the heavenly kingdom so now he will mess up our world by mucking around with international politics, provoking the USA and China, Iran and Israel to war, stirring up fear of immigrants, spreading Islamophobia and turning Western governments into totalitarian regimes. He will use a special group of Illuminati to manipulate world politics to create fear among people so he can control them.

The global financial crisis, 9/11, SARS, swine flu and natural disasters were part of his plan to create fear so he could control people. Humans start destroying each other with nuclear weapons and making the planet uninhabitable. The end of the human race is inevitable -- without divine intervention.

This is when the messiah appears and the "general resurrection" takes place. The humans who helped defeat the serpent in heaven suddenly reappear on earth to save those below. The messiah and resurrected humans will perform a massive miracle, causing heaven to break in and shield the remaining humans from nuclear radiation.

Another one of my theories.:D :eek: :rolleyes:
 
cool Saltie

so you have made up your own whacky theology, is that right ?


Also have you come across Ian Clayton, he has some pretty whacky theology regarding the Garden of Eden.
 
cool Saltie

so you have made up your own whacky theology, is that right ?

Also have you come across Ian Clayton, he has some pretty whacky theology regarding the Garden of Eden.

Anyone can make up their own whacky theology. It is out of bias that we choose some as "better" than others. Not all bias is bad, but bias that serves only the purposes of one particular group is what I dislike. I have all three Abrahamic faiths in mind when I develop my theories. I did not draw inspiration from one tradition. I took it from all three.

I put my theory out there for all. Whether or not it becomes popular is not my concern. I made my contribution and I was bold and daring enough to make up something different (and be myself). I did of course draw inspiration from existing theologies, but I put it together in a way I thought was a "nice" way of seeing it. If I wanted to justify the whole theory, I would write a book, but I just couldn't be bothered. It takes a while to write up these posts/rants so it is likely I will just stop here.

I do, however, aspire to do more than just post short-term rants on an Internet forum, but the time is not now.

I do not consider "innovation" to be wrong. Actually I think we need more innovations. A lot of people think it is all set in stone. Too many people seek rigid dogma rather than thinking for themselves.

There are questions the Bible does not answer. There are gaps in the words of the Bible and the words of God. It is our job to fill these gaps. We are smart enough to figure it out. Adam ate the forbidden fruit did he not?

Innovation is not only necessary, but inevitable. If you seek answers that the Bible cannot answer, you will inevitably develop innovations and innovation is a creative and imaginative process. The search for an answer is itself a creative and imaginative process. Because not everybody will follow the same approach to answering Bible questions, it is a creative and imaginative process.

This creative and imaginative process needs to be a collaborative process. Nobody can do it alone. We must do it together.

The five planeteers could not defeat pollution alone, but with all their powers combined, they were Captain Planet.

With all our unique abilities and methods combined, we are the Body of Christ.

Let our powers combine.
 
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