Garden of Eden

[Etu Malku]

It is not so much infinite as just that every human being is a potential Buddha, I too agree with this obviously - there is nothing particularly different about a Buddha compared to a normal man, other than in awareness of his nature, realization of that inner light. Lucifer and Enlightened seems interchangeable in our understandings...

Agreed, though Buddha was/is a physical being and Lucifer is an archetype/principle personified by some.

Enlightenment is not a process, though, it only happens in an instance. There are many processes supposed to trigger it, and mind is gratified by thinking they are getting nearer because mind is goal oriented. In reality though, it is a flash, it can spring on you unawares

I would call that gnosis, while in the Temple of Set, we called it Xeper.
Enlightenment to me is a process made up of smaller illuminations throughout subsequent incarnations.

I do not believe in any nonsense like a Demierge, sorry... for me, there simply is no creator - only creativity, for creator and created is another duality. I have experienced oneness, so no such duality or separate God is meaningful for me - they are all metaphors pointing to something, it is for you to discover where they point.

There is no need to be sorry, or to call it nonsense.

I am not sure I agree with the duality of Creator and creation . . . I believe there is Creation and Stasis as polar extremes of the same thing. This philosophy sits well with the Qabalah's Qliphoth, Egyptian religion, Hermeticism and other Belief systems.

 

[Etu Malku]

Etu Malku, you believe in gradual enlightenment. Do you believe in a perfect stage of enlightenment that all are working towards? What happens when you get there?

I do, and this perfection reaches its goal upon Self-Deification, by returning to our Higher-Self, our Perfect Dæmon. We are no longer a part of another one's Creation we are Creators ourselves then.

 

[Lunitik]

Enlightenment to me is a process made up of smaller illuminations throughout subsequent incarnations.

Enlightenment is not open to interpretation, sorry to be blunt but it is what it is.

What you probably mean is that through various lives we will experience kensho's, satori's - glimpses which are not permanent. These are a sort of enlightenment certainly, but not full enlightenment. Samadhi is the final enlightenment, it is permanent.

 

[Lunitik]

I do, and this perfection reaches its goal upon Self-Deification, by returning to our Higher-Self, our Perfect Dæmon. We are no longer a part of another one's Creation we are Creators ourselves then.

The East calls this manifesting, it actually doesn't necessitate enlightenment at all. This is exactly the purpose of prayer, in a worshipful state we can cause things to occur which we desire strongly.

I have discussed this in the spell thread, but the enlightened masters down the ages have always said that we are collectively responsible for all that happens - we have all created the circumstances which has caused a war, for instance, simply by our anger or hate towards another people.

 

[Etu Malku]

Enlightenment is not open to interpretation, sorry to be blunt but it is what it is.

What you probably mean is that through various lives we will experience kensho's, satori's - glimpses which are not permanent. These are a sort of enlightenment certainly, but not full enlightenment. Samadhi is the final enlightenment, it is permanent.

See this is where you fail in this 'InterFaith' forum (my turn to be blunt), until you can prove to any of us that your beliefs are Truths then you are simply instigating and demeaning in tone, whether purposely or accidentally, which neither a truly enlightened being would project.

 

[Etu Malku]

The East calls this manifesting, it actually doesn't necessitate enlightenment at all. This is exactly the purpose of prayer, in a worshipful state we can cause things to occur which we desire strongly.

I see prayer as a "lost" magical art. It has become rote recitations or simple wish-making.

Prayer originally was a process of concentrated visualization, combined with emotional and mental energy, properly grounded to the physical through proper vocalization.

The spoken Word became in essence praying, this was first understood by the ancient Egyptians in the way of Affirmations and made manifest in (Heka) vibrational magic. Efforts were made to align sound with the principles of a cosmic order (natural ordering of the universe) which perhaps could be seen as a LOGOS, the dialog with that part of your Self that has the ability to create any condition you need or desire.

The invocation within a prayer unites our meditative state of consciousness with the power of the Word and our innate force of Will.

 

[seattlegal]

Enlightenment is not a process, though, it only happens in an instance. There are many processes supposed to trigger it, and mind is gratified by thinking they are getting nearer because mind is goal oriented. In reality though, it is a flash, it can spring on you unawares - this is how it happened to me, I was contemplating something and my mind just kinda went off the rails. It started continuing the meditation without words, without any direct cognition... then this just stopped and there was left object and subject - the final extreme, the last duality. What is the result of their merging? Well, enlightenment. I was not striving for something, it simply happened as a result of what I was contemplating, for hours it engulfed me. I was not there for maybe 6 hours that day, now what to make of it? This is what led me to Osho, he explained for me what had happened, otherwise I would still be lost trying to figure it out.

It is healthy to remain skeptical of what you might think of as being enlightenment in order to both remain stable and not to limit your capacity for enlightenment. jmho

 

[Lunitik]

See this is where you fail in this 'InterFaith' forum (my turn to be blunt), until you can prove to any of us that your beliefs are Truths then you are simply instigating and demeaning in tone, whether purposely or accidentally, which neither a truly enlightened being would project.

Simply not the case, read about Ekido for instance - many Zen masters go on beating monks, this man has actually killed some through his violence towards them.

There are no such criteria for enlightenment, these are your projections, expectations.

 

[Lunitik]

It is healthy to remain skeptical of what you might think of as being enlightenment in order to both remain stable and not to limit your capacity for enlightenment. jmho

I am enlightened, why remain skeptical?

I have not gone into samadhi, but I have come to the entrance... fear arises, so I do not go in, but I know it. You feel you are about to die, like your life force is running from you, it is scary so always I scamper to climb back out in distress.

Enlightenment is there, clanging against my astral body, I can see it often. I can enter the space of enlightenment as I please, but after samadhi you cannot come back out.

 

[Etu Malku]

Simply not the case, read about Ekido for instance - many Zen masters go on beating monks, this man has actually killed some through his violence towards them.

There are no such criteria for enlightenment, these are your projections, expectations.

Now there's a role model . . .

 

[seattlegal]

I am enlightened, why remain skeptical?

I have not gone into samadhi, but I have come to the entrance... fear arises, so I do not go in, but I know it. You feel you are about to die, like your life force is running from you, it is scary so always I scamper to climb back out in distress.

Enlightenment is there, clanging against my astral body, I can see it often. I can enter the space of enlightenment as I please, but after samadhi you cannot come back out.

Acintita Sutta: Unconjecturable

"There are these four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them. Which four?
"The Buddha-range of the Buddhas[1] is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.
"The jhana-range of a person in jhana...[2]
"The [precise working out of the] results of kamma...
"Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.
"These are the four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them."​

Skepticism is an antidote to this madness and vexation--you risk getting stuck in a rut.


In Buddhism, enlightenment isn't really considered enlightenment until all signs disappear. Signs mean there are things you still need to work on.

 

[Lunitik]

Now there's a role model . . .

It is not about role models, not at all.

It is about creating in the person an authenticity, the monks have committed their lives to seeking the ultimate. If they go on doing stupid things, they are punished - here is something about him.

 

[Lunitik]

Acintita Sutta: Unconjecturable

"There are these four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them. Which four?
"The Buddha-range of the Buddhas[1] is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.
"The jhana-range of a person in jhana...[2]
"The [precise working out of the] results of kamma...
"Conjecture about [the origin, etc., of] the world is an unconjecturable that is not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about it.
"These are the four unconjecturables that are not to be conjectured about, that would bring madness & vexation to anyone who conjectured about them."​

Skepticism is an antidote to this madness and vexation--you risk getting stuck in a rut.


In Buddhism, enlightenment isn't really considered enlightenment until all signs disappear. Signs mean there are things you still need to work on.

I am not sure where you are going here, literally I can become enlightened this second if I plucked up the courage - then everything is dropped, nothing of the past and future will remain. This is not conjecture, I know it to be true.

Unwise to discuss on these forums? Perhaps.

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

A suggestion, don't try to convince Lunitik that what he says is anything but absolute truth, it is quite futile. It all goes back to, what I would call, a circular logic that works for him. He has experienced the truth and anything that differs from what he already knows is flawed, he is thus not here to learn.

 

[seattlegal]

A suggestion, don't try to convince Lunitik that what he says is anything but absolute truth, it is quite futile. It all goes back to, what I would call, a circular logic that works for him. He has experienced the truth and anything that differs from what he already knows is flawed, he is thus not here to learn.

{sigh} **wanders off to find a good copy of Dark Night of the Soul**

 

[Etu Malku]

I exist to remedy such things . . . Pro EGO sum Lux lucis quod Verum!

 

[Lunitik]

I exist to remedy such things . . . Pro EGO sum Lux lucis quod Verum!

It is not ego at all, I simply know that it is a process of DROPPING knowledge, arriving at a point where you know nothing - even the concept of God and yourself must be dropped! The acquisition of knowledge is itself an ego plight - as you acquire more, you feel that now you are getting closer to knowing. It is not so, you are getting further from it, now you just have more that you will need to drop eventually.

I do not like the statement of IowaGuy here, and yet he is perfectly right. I am not interested in particular stories of the faiths, in anything that conveys duality, because I know it to be utterly false. This has clearly threatened his ego at some point, but it is not my fault.

I am here to help others to know, but when they try to teach it just looks absurd - nothing said is actually meaningful, yet they don't see it. I could lash out and show why it is irrelevant, but I choose to attempt to pick out meaningful statements and advance on that... now I am using your ego to assist, although this seems flawed because they still take their nonsense along with them. It is just funny to me I suppose that they accept nonsense from Buddhist texts or Vedas or the Bible and yet they do not accept truth when it is presented to them directly. Rather bizarre, it can only be that people are not interested in actual advancement.

 

[Etu Malku]

It is not ego at all, I simply know that it is a process of DROPPING knowledge, arriving at a point where you know nothing - even the concept of God and yourself must be dropped! The acquisition of knowledge is itself an ego plight - as you acquire more, you feel that now you are getting closer to knowing. It is not so, you are getting further from it, now you just have more that you will need to drop eventually.

I do not like the statement of IowaGuy here, and yet he is perfectly right. I am not interested in particular stories of the faiths, in anything that conveys duality, because I know it to be utterly false. This has clearly threatened his ego at some point, but it is not my fault.

I am here to help others to know, but when they try to teach it just looks absurd - nothing said is actually meaningful, yet they don't see it. I could lash out and show why it is irrelevant, but I choose to attempt to pick out meaningful statements and advance on that... now I am using your ego to assist, although this seems flawed because they still take their nonsense along with them. It is just funny to me I suppose that they accept nonsense from Buddhist texts or Vedas or the Bible and yet they do not accept truth when it is presented to them directly. Rather bizarre, it can only be that people are not interested in actual advancement.

I must say, I have seen fewer exemplary statements of EGO (rather SuperEGO, see EGO is the balanced aspect of both extremes; ID/SuperEGO) than yours.
You Know - everyone else's statements are not meaningful - others Beliefs are nonsense - the Truth is in your hands as you directly convey it to us less fortunate -

What a load of BS . . . LOL! What a misuse of Knowledge, which is Power, and with Greater Power comes Greater Responsibility.

The concept of Self is all we have, we are Self. If you choose to attach dogma to this then it is your right and I have no right to tell you otherwise.

You cannot explain another person's paradigm to them through your eyes, at best you can only Understand it. We are all Individual and a detriment arises when someone attempts to remove the Individual and replaces it with Them.

This is the SuperEGO Man boosting His inflated EGO by regulating those not in conformity with His ideals to the Lower/ Sub Id Man.

 

[seattlegal]

It is not ego at all, I simply know that it is a process of DROPPING knowledge, arriving at a point where you know nothing - even the concept of God and yourself must be dropped! The acquisition of knowledge is itself an ego plight - as you acquire more, you feel that now you are getting closer to knowing. It is not so, you are getting further from it, now you just have more that you will need to drop eventually.

Hey, all I know is that I need all the help I can get!

 

[Lunitik]

I must say, I have seen fewer exemplary statements of EGO (rather SuperEGO, see EGO is the balanced aspect of both extremes; ID/SuperEGO) than yours.

You see words necessary in communication, you have inferred ego in that language. It is your own projection, you do not know what is intended even when "I" is stated. You have drawn conclusions about the words you have read, this is the very epitome of ego so your approach is ironic.

You Know - everyone else's statements are not meaningful - others Beliefs are nonsense - the Truth is in your hands as you directly convey it to us less fortunate -

Your own statements about the Higher Self, Demiurge and the like, these are great examples. Lower and Higher is fundamentally dualistic, and you have accepted a fabricated God to explain why the Torah is such a disgusting text - you have engaged in make believe because you feel it makes sense. What meaning do you find in this utter nonsense? There is none, it is just part of your rebellion against Christianity which forces this crap upon you. There is no other reason to approach Luciferianism because anyone can plainly see that spells and witchcraft are not spiritual. They are as much ritual as Catholic mass, they are a pantomime to give the mundane something to do. It is pathetic, although I have remained relatively cordial it is laughable that YOU of all people would try to justify nonsense as meaningful.

Guess what? No matter what you find, there is no meaning in anything. Truth does not provide meaning, it only drops your need for it. Life is beautiful exactly because there is no meaning, no design, nothing of any purpose at all. Manufacturing meaning to appease our minds is utterly disgusting, we create a life which is not even worth living when we attempt such things. If you enjoy the appeasement of these things through logical arguments though, keep down your current path. You will think you have known something of life, but you will have simply wasted it.

What a load of BS . . . LOL! What a misuse of Knowledge, which is Power, and with Greater Power comes Greater Responsibility.

Knowledge is not power at all, knowledge is a hindrance. Both power and knowledge are pursuits of mind. Humans decide knowledge is something worth having, it is naught but ego fuel. In your knowledge of your religion, you believe yourself knowing, you know nothing you have simply memorized something which you agree with. What is the purpose in it? It will not allow any transformation in you, agreeing with a master only says they are saying something which you already thought to be the case. What to say of power? This is the most primitive of all human initiatives, it shows we have not come far at all from the trees. We are still trying to attain to the top of the group, we are still engaging in climbing the hierarchical structures, we are still utterly infatuated with the animal in us. By engaging with the animal, how will we ever go into the heights of consciousness? Only the fool lives so much in the mind, the wise man realizes mind is the whole obstacle on the path of spirituality.

The concept of Self is all we have, we are Self. If you choose to attach dogma to this then it is your right and I have no right to tell you otherwise.

Truth of the human condition is that we are not at all, and if you ever venture into true mysticism you will come to realize this for yourself, you will not have to agree or find proof as it will be actualized. No dogma at all is going to help, but what do you think Luciferianism is? Christianity? Hinduism? Buddhism? Islam? They are all naught but different stacks of dogma. You are accepting a set group of doctrines just as any other religious group. Few know anything though, you are just accepting crap written on a paper because in some way it has appealed to your ego. It is exactly the ego or self which must die though, this is all I go on saying. Once you give your Self over to existence, then you will know enlightenment - and it is inevitable no matter what, because eventually you are going to die whether you want to or not. You cannot exist eternally, you can only know that which does.

You cannot explain another person's paradigm to them through your eyes, at best you can only Understand it. We are all Individual and a detriment arises when someone attempts to remove the Individual and replaces it with Them.

It is simple to see who knows anything and who knows nothing... the one that doesn't know will keep maintaining dualities and introduce concepts upon concepts to support their rationale. They will point to inconsistency and contradictions because they believe these things are valuable in noticing what is true and what is now. Truth is not rationale at all, because truth is not something mind can know. You have to transcend mind, mind is exactly the hindrance. You are not an individual at all, you are the junk your mind has collected, you are the experiences of mind applied again and again in the future. You have not known the herenow, you do not know yourself, how can you claim to be an individual? Few individuals every spring up, most are personas, something trained and peripheral.

This is the SuperEGO Man boosting His inflated EGO by regulating those not in conformity with His ideals to the Lower/ Sub Id Man.

"Man" comes from a sanskrit word meaning "mind", mind is ego so your statement is irrelevant. Mind is the lowest form of consciousness, but you have utterly identified with it. Inquire into what has watched the thoughts of mind arise, inquire into what is identified as "I", then you can discover something meaningful... good luck.