L
Lunitik
Guest
I will say that truth is only known when it is encountered, whatsoever is your experience is your truth... the purpose of religion is to encounter a higher truth, a hidden truth.
I will say that truth is only known when it is encountered, whatsoever is your experience is your truth... the purpose of religion is to encounter a higher truth, a hidden truth.
L
Lunitik
Guest
Thought is a function of language, how will the child think?
Even memories are a function of thought, you will note that our first memories are usually around the time we actually start deciphering language in a more natural way and is usually accompanied by a conversation - although rarely do we recall the conversation. Thought becomes our veil, everything becomes processed through this, we begin to label everything we come in contact with. This has effected how we perceive everything we encounter in very surprising ways...
The Zen go on talking about 'no-mind', it means to be aware without interpretation, without this veil. Buddha himself has taught many ways how to stop the mind interfering... man has become a slave to mind, and even this thread alone shows this. Mind does not exist, it is merely the collection of thoughts, yet we have become slaves to it. If we drop mind, a surprising thing happens, we actually use more of our brain! This is scientifically recorded, not only does it become better integrated (left and right work better together) but our ability to perceive the world around us is greatly enhanced - every sense becomes far more alert.
Gatekeeper
Shades of Reason
I thought thought was a function of the brain. A fetus starts brain activity shortly before the beginning of the third trimester, which makes me want to know what they think about!
L
Lunitik
Guest
I thought thought was a function of the brain. A fetus starts brain activity shortly before the beginning of the third trimester, which makes me want to know what they think about!
Brain activity does not signify thought, the brain manages every system in the body, and all movements made by the child, not to mention sensory information and the like.
Gatekeeper
Shades of Reason
What makes you so sure that an unborn baby has no thoughts whatsoever? For me, this is hard to believe. You suggest that language is what makes us think, but I respectfully disagree. Does thought begin in the womb or after the child is born and introduced to the objective universe? Are there studies on this issue? Are you somehow privy to what goes on in the mind of an unborn child? If not, then how can you be so sure?
L
Lunitik
Guest
Simply look at a thought, can it exist without a word association?
Think of something without a word, any random thing... keep language out and think of it... how will you manage? If you try to look at a tree, what happens when no words arise at all? Can you call that thought? I don't think you can, but certainly you will be aware of it...
You can be aware of things without thought, but you cannot think without language - thought is awareness filtered through mind, through language.
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
Yes, we need no words for mathematical or logical thought, merely relationships. Futhermore most mystical traditions dissassociate words from thought or becoming (being) or experience (you should know this Lunitik). Finally, even wavicles have a form of thought (prehension per Whitehead and Wilber). So why not a foetus? Probably experiences his or her original face or the soul they had at Mt Sinai (Lubavitcher thing). That is why most oriental and native american cultures count you 9 months old at birth.
L
Lunitik
Guest
Show me a mystic which dissociates words from thought... I find it difficult to accept, but perhaps you have merely misunderstood them? Certainly, they will separate thought and mind from your being, your essence. Many will go on saying they only talk because you do not understand their silence, now they must translate their essence to languages which have not developed ways to express it... this is my whole problem on this site - and yet it is my own fault for seeking out avenues to share with instead of allowing such situations to arise naturally.
Etu Malku
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Ok, I would answer that thought occurs once the central nervous system is developed. What they think about is undoubtedly SU stuff.
Etu Malku
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Of course they have thoughts, their minds are already filled with genetic data and archetypal imagery from our ancestors.
Etu Malku
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As a musician I can speak directly to your soul and convey stories, emotions, dialogue.
Gatekeeper
Shades of Reason
I think so as well. I have read studies suggesting that unborn's can hear, which most definitely would increase brain activity and perhaps even thought. Music for instance, I wonder what kind of thoughts are conjured when a nice soothing melody is being played by the parent?
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
Lunitik-- try the daodejing. nameless is wordless. Or the platform sutra. pointing without word.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
I know my son reacted to outside stimulai before he was born. I developed a disliking for Mick Jaggar's singing--before he was born, he'd kick hard whenever one of his songs would come on the radio, and he would cry after he was born when that happened.
He definitely recognized my voice and his father's voice as soon as he was born, as well as the voice of Dave Niehaus, our local baseball announcer. (I was a big baseball fan back then, and often listened to the games while I was pregnant, and once my family showed up to the hospital after the birth, they turned the baseball game on the TV, and he immediately reacted to Niehaus's voice in the same manner he reacted to my voice.