The Yusufzai Afghans and the Ashkeneze

[mojobadshah]

There is a legend among the Pashtuns (Aryans) of Afghanistan, like there is among a lot of people, that they are descendants of the Lost Tribes of Israel. The Yusufzai or "sons of Joseph" believe they're connected to the tribe of Joseph, one of Israel's 12 sons. But recently I have come upon a few clues that it was not the Hebrew phenomenon that influenced the Aryan phenomenon, rather it was the other way around. First of all it should be understood that the Persian (Aryan) Empire was a vast expanse with vast resources and manpower for hundreds of years. Israelite society on the other hand was a very fragmented society and prone to influence under the tutelage of the Persians. Also it may be of significance to note that it was in Persia that the master copy of the Hebrew Bible was compiled. Now my first clue that it was from the Aryans that the common name Yusuf was derived was from an etymology that shows the form Yusuf was derived from Aryan forms equivalent to our word equine such as the Avestan asva/aspa "horse" which was quite frequent among the Aryan equestrians. Zoroaster's father, for example, was named Pourush-aspa "full of horses." The eponym Yusufzai, itself was derived from a combination of form aspa "horse" and zai (cf. kin, gene) "son." So aspazai > yusufzai. There was also an adviser to the Kushan King and religious synchronist Kanishka named Yusuf Asaf. Both these forms appear to have been derived from the Irano-Afghan (Aryan) root aspa after metathesis (aspa > asaf and aspa > yusuf) Yusuf Asaf lived around the time Christianity was on the rise in Sassanid Persia about 100 years before Constantine established Christianity as the state religion of the Roman Empire.

My second clue was the etymology for the the eponym Ashkeneze which one source says was derived from an Aryan eponym meaning and related to the form Scythian. But this form Ashkeneze resembles the eponym of the Parthians Ashkan more. The Parthians ruled immediately before the Sassanids and the eponym Ashkan "horseman" is another term that is was derived from the same Aryan root as the Avestan asva and is also akin to the national designation Afghan. Ashkeneze is also the designation for a sect of Jews and it is obvious that the borrowing was from Aryan to Hebrew and not Hebrew to Aryan. And if you notice the affix -ze in Ashkeneze is akin to the affix -zai in Yusufzai.

In conclusion it looks like the name Joseph which is derived from the Hebrew Yusuf is of Aryan origin. And when you think about it it really shouldn't come of surprise when keeping in mind that the tribes of Israel lived under the Persians, Greeks, and Romans, all gentile or Aryan (Indo-European) people. Controversial etymologies have been made for names like Abraham and Sara (I think there is more to it than that), but not so controversial etymologies for the names of Jewish personages have been made like Peter, and Luke.

 

[radarmark]

As for Ashkenazim, Azimov gave a good case for the linguistic or scribal misidentification of nun for vav (they look a lot alike). Similarly Gomer could have been Gimmiri (Cimmerians). Anyhow these Indo-Iranian Scythians had similar names in both ancient Babylonian and Indic texts (Sakimuni = of the Sakas, Saka = Ashkuz). So is the word Indo-EUropean or Semetic? Take your choice. Same with Joseph.

However, just because the word is shared (one way or the other) is not a definative answer to what the root is. The root for Gomer and Ashkenaz and Yosef all are Semetic. The root for Gimmiri and Ashkuz are Assyrian-Babylonian. Saka is probably the actual Scythian term.

What Gimer and Ashkenaz came to mean was "some area to the Northeast". By the Middle Ages it was used to describe the Rhineland and Europe in General (in Hebrew).

No more relevant than the sharing of terms in Hopi, Zuni, and Mayan (which bear the same relationship as Hebrew and Proto-Iranian). Ancient prople got around more than most of academia want to realize.

 

[mojobadshah]

However, just because the word is shared (one way or the other) is not a definative answer to what the root is. The root for Gomer and Ashkenaz and Yosef all are Semetic. The root for Gimmiri and Ashkuz are Assyrian-Babylonian.

I think you're using "root" to loosely here. Gomer, Ashkenaz, and Yosef are all Semitic forms, but the ultimate root of these forms appear to have been loaned from the Aryan language family. The proposed Aryan equivalents are Gimmiri, Saka, and Yusuf (cf. asip, asaf, asva/aspa, equine PIE * eku "horse")

Saka is probably the actual Scythian term.

Saka (cf. shoot) is the Persian (Aryan) form. It meant archer.

As for Ashkenazim, Azimov gave a good case for the linguistic or scribal misidentification of nun for vav (they look a lot alike). Similarly Gomer could have been Gimmiri (Cimmerians).

Most of the sources that I've come upon show that the Gomer and the Gimmiri were the Cimmerians.

Anyhow these Indo-Iranian Scythians had similar names in both ancient Babylonian and Indic texts (Sakimuni = of the Sakas, Saka = Ashkuz). So is the word Indo-EUropean or Semetic? Take your choice. Same with Joseph.

What I'm saying is where did the ash- prefix come from. It looks like the form Ashkuz is actually from Ashkan "horseman" or a combination of Ashkan and a form equivalent to Saka meaning something like "mounted archer."

 

[radarmark]

Very informative. If you look up the medieval hebrew term for Rhineland, it is Ashkenaz, places to the east (what would become "greater Germany" into Poland and Russia) were Gomerians (see Tracate Yomer, a Talmudic Text).

Yep, the early witten vav looked a lot like a nun to someone so "Ashkav" became "Ashkan" (at least that it Isaac Asimov's rap). Very possible.

 

[mojobadshah]

Very informative. If you look up the medieval hebrew term for Rhineland, it is Ashkenaz, places to the east (what would become "greater Germany" into Poland and Russia) were Gomerians (see Tracate Yomer, a Talmudic Text).

Yep, the early witten vav looked a lot like a nun to someone so "Ashkav" became "Ashkan" (at least that it Isaac Asimov's rap). Very possible.

Where are you getting Ashkav from. According to this source IRANIAN PEOPLES: The Scythians - (The Circle of Ancient Iranian Studies - CAIS)©:

"The earliest mention of the Scythians is in Assyrian records dating to the reign of Sargon II (prior to 713 BCE). They were called Ashkuzi by the Assyrians; a similar name is known from the Hebrew Bible in the pedigree of Noah's decadency (Gn. 10:1-3): Askeneze was the son of Gomer (i.e., Cimmerians)."

But I think there wrong that Ashkuzi is akin to Scythian. I think that Ashkuzi is akin to Ashkan. Ashkaneze definitely looks like Ashkan. Maybe Ashkaneze is a combination of Askhan "horseman" and Scythian cf. shoot and meant mounted archer. I think that the last part of the word Ashkaneze -eze or -ze is akin to forms like -zai "son" like in Yusuf-zai or Kar-zai. Can anyone confirm or detract from this? I can't find too much on the etymology of the name Ashkeneze.

 

[radarmark]

In his "Azimov's Guide to the Bilble" Azimov states that the Hebrew "Ashkan" (the root of Ashkenazi) was probably a scribal error in recording "Ashkav". Mistaking a vav for a nun is a typical and (according to him and others) frequent error.

This would apply to the the time of the compilation of Genesis because "Gomer" and "Ashkan" appear there.

Does that answer your question? I am not stating it originated with Bereshit, merely that that was where it was forst used in Hebrew (probably).

 

[mojobadshah]

In his "Azimov's Guide to the Bilble" Azimov states that the Hebrew "Ashkan" (the root of Ashkenazi) was probably a scribal error in recording "Ashkav". Mistaking a vav for a nun is a typical and (according to him and others) frequent error.

I see. Does he explain why Ashkav would have been the archaic form and does he explain what it meant? There is a Sanskrit form and designation of a people who lived in Afghanistan that looks like this: Ashvaka cf. equine, Afghan (see A?vakas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) Both forms look like they could be related. One or the other looks like it went through metathesis where the kav-vaka affixes reversed. And does he explain what the -azi affix of the word means?

 

[radarmark]

No. I assume (like I did) he just thought it was a loan word. Makes sense, someone hears "Ashkav" in Babylonia, writes it down and at some later ppoint, the mistake (nun for vav), makes it "Ashkan".

 

[mojobadshah]

Now that you mention it the transition between Ashkav > Yusuf > Joseph looks plausible too. The Ashkanians, however, were synonymous with the Parthians and the Parthians were Aryan by linguistic affinity. Forms of the PIE*eku are prolific in the Aryan languages. So if a form like Ashkav (from an Aryan language) did develop into Ashkan in Babylon and Askeneze mentioned in Genesis is a form of this word then that part of Genesis could not have been composed until the Jews were in Babylon. Which would also explain why the Jews were aware of Aryan tribes other than the Askeneze such as the Gimmiri (Cimmerians), and the Madai (Medes). In any case it would appear that forms of the PIE *eku was prolific among the Aryans, meant horse or horseman, and also came into use among the Afro-Asiatic speaking Jews and even Arabs.