How to decide Sin

[Thomas]

Sin and virtue both dependent on each other.

Why?

Existentialy nothing is Sin or Virtue but it is our believe, conditioned mind, and social norms which defines.

Why?

For persons like Jesus, they has no firm distinction in Sin and Virtue. Their act / behavior is beyond both.

Why?

One thing is very clear that person like Jesus has no possibility to go against Dhamma/ Dharma

Why?

God bless,

Thomas

 

[seattlegal]

It can only be willful if you believe it to be a Sin . . . let me put it bluntly, moral codes of Christianity hold absolutely no interest or authority on me, I don't agree with them, or believe in them. Now, how can "I" Sin when I don't embrace this idea of Sin?

Diabolus Beatus,
Etu Malku

Alright, the Objective Universe is subjected to the Laws of Physics, whereas the Laws of Physics don't neccessarily extend into the Subjective Universe. However, there are different "forces" at work within the Subjective Universe. Delusion can cause widespread chaos within the Subjective Universe. Hatred can cause bias errors within one's mind, obscuring the clearness of vision within your mind. Likewise, greed can infect one's mind, obscuring one's clear thinking ability, which can result in harmful behaviour within the Objective Universe. Lust can certainly affect your thinking ability.

You can try deny the existence of such factors within the Subjective Universe, but that will not dispel the observable effects these forces can and do have upon your mind, and the damage to the mind that can result from this. So yes, you can sin and cause damage to your mind, even if you don't believe that your mind can be damaged in this manner. Belief, or lack thereof, does not always reign supreme in the Subjective Universe.
There are other real factors/forces at work there, as well.

 

[seattlegal]

Alright, the Objective Universe is subjected to the Laws of Physics, whereas the Laws of Physics don't neccessarily extend into the Subjective Universe. However, there are different "forces" at work within the Subjective Universe. Delusion can cause widespread chaos within the Subjective Universe. Hatred can cause bias errors within one's mind, obscuring the clearness of vision within your mind. Likewise, greed can infect one's mind, obscuring one's clear thinking ability, which can result in harmful behaviour within the Objective Universe. Lust can certainly affect your thinking ability.

You can try deny the existence of such factors within the Subjective Universe, but that will not dispel the observable effects these forces can and do have upon your mind, and the damage to the mind that can result from this. So yes, you can sin and cause damage to your mind, even if you don't believe that your mind can be damaged in this manner. Belief, or lack thereof, does not always reign supreme in the Subjective Universe.
There are other real factors/forces at work there, as well.

Follow up question: If you are unaware of these forces within your mind, refuse to acknowledge them, or even acknowledge them but cannot manage them, exactly who or what is then in control of your mind? Is 'your' Will actually YOUR Will in this case? Whose Will is being done in this case?

This is one reason why I agree with Thicht Nhat Hanh when he equates being filled with mindfulness as being the same as being filled with the holy spirit...

 

[brijesh]

Alright, the Objective Universe is subjected to the Laws of Physics, whereas the Laws of Physics don't neccessarily extend into the Subjective Universe. However, there are different "forces" at work within the Subjective Universe. Delusion can cause widespread chaos within the Subjective Universe. Hatred can cause bias errors within one's mind, obscuring the clearness of vision within your mind. Likewise, greed can infect one's mind, obscuring one's clear thinking ability, which can result in harmful behaviour within the Objective Universe. Lust can certainly affect your thinking ability.

You can try deny the existence of such factors within the Subjective Universe, but that will not dispel the observable effects these forces can and do have upon your mind, and the damage to the mind that can result from this. So yes, you can sin and cause damage to your mind, even if you don't believe that your mind can be damaged in this manner. Belief, or lack thereof, does not always reign supreme in the Subjective Universe.
There are other real factors/forces at work there, as well.

Dear brother Truly speaking i am anable to understand the above all. Not even a sinlge sentance i could understand. May be your thoughts are too high for me.

 

[Etu Malku]

Delusion can cause widespread chaos within the Subjective Universe.

According to Chaos Theory & Magick, delusion actually creates pattern and thus entropy ensues (hey, I got my brain back )

Hatred can cause bias errors within one's mind, obscuring the clearness of vision within your mind. Likewise, greed can infect one's mind, obscuring one's clear thinking ability, which can result in harmful behaviour within the Objective Universe. Lust can certainly affect your thinking ability.

Lack of these (ahem) 'virtues' and/or their opposites can have the same results.

You can try deny the existence of such factors within the Subjective Universe, but that will not dispel the observable effects these forces can and do have upon your mind, and the damage to the mind that can result from this. So yes, you can sin and cause damage to your mind, even if you don't believe that your mind can be damaged in this manner. Belief, or lack thereof, does not always reign supreme in the Subjective Universe.
There are other real factors/forces at work there, as well.

The Indoctrined mind is well, (My) enemy at least, with centuries of hardened religious memes that make it difficult to think Individually, Individuated, and as you naturally would.

I'm at least trying . . .

 

[Thomas]

This is one reason why I agree with Thicht Nhat Hanh when he equates being filled with mindfulness as being the same as being filled with the holy spirit...

I would agree also (I also would agree, I would also agree? Heck!) Anyway, I agree with what he said as well.

God bless,

Thomas

 

[wil]

but is this scriptural ?

what do they abrahamic faiths say is sin ?

. . let me put it bluntly, moral codes of Christianity hold absolutely no interest or authority on me, I don't agree with them, or believe in them. Now, how can "I" Sin when I don't embrace this idea of Sin?

Diabolus Beatus,
Etu Malku

Ok, so this is a discussion of the Abrahamic view of sin. Is Luciferian Abrahamic? And if you don't believe in sin, beyond that what can you add to the discussion of the Abrahamic view of sin?

 

[Etu Malku]

Ok, so this is a discussion of the Abrahamic view of sin. Is Luciferian Abrahamic? And if you don't believe in sin, beyond that what can you add to the discussion of the Abrahamic view of sin?

You're right wil, I keep getting caught in this forum . . . never mind what I just said.

You're ALL born into Sin!

 

[seattlegal]

Hatred can cause bias errors within one's mind, obscuring the clearness of vision within your mind. Likewise, greed can infect one's mind, obscuring one's clear thinking ability, which can result in harmful behaviour within the Objective Universe. Lust can certainly affect your thinking ability.

Hatred can cause bias errors within one's mind, obscuring the clearness of vision within your mind. Likewise, greed can infect one's mind, obscuring one's clear thinking ability, which can result in harmful behaviour within the Objective Universe. Lust can certainly affect your thinking ability.

Lack of these (ahem) 'virtues' and/or their opposites can have the same results.

**grabs popcorn**

Please enlighten me as to how a lack of greed, hatred, or delusion can have harmful effect on your mind. It seems to me that you are making a claim analogous to asserting that a lack of cyanide, arsenic, and mercury within your body can have an adversive affect on your health.

The Indoctrined mind is well, (My) enemy at least, with centuries of hardened religious memes that make it difficult to think Individually, Individuated, and as you naturally would.

I'm at least trying . . .

How do you know you are not indocrinated yourself?

 

[seattlegal]

Dear brother Truly speaking i am anable to understand the above all. Not even a sinlge sentance i could understand. May be your thoughts are too high for me.

Boiled down version: greed, hate, and delusion can poison your mind.

 

[Etu Malku]

**grabs popcorn**

Please enlighten me as to how a lack of greed, hatred, or delusion can have harmful effect on your mind. It seems to me that you are making a claim analogous to asserting that a lack of cyanide, arsenic, and mercury within your body can have an adversive affect on your health.

B) How do you know you are not indocrinated yourself?

I thought I stated that I (like most) do have an Indoctrined mind

A) A balance for example of Love & Hate is desired, love for obvious reasons, hatred in the fact that it is a great motivator.

Imagine not hating your enemy on the field of battle?
Imagine not hating the cowardly rapist and pedophile?
Imagine not hating the terrorist that destroyed the lives of innocent men, women, and children?
Imagine not hating the cancer that took your loved one?

 

[seattlegal]

I thought I stated that I (like most) do have an Indoctrined mind

Oops, my mistake. (Gimme back my brain! )

A) A balance for example of Love & Hate is desired, love for obvious reasons, hatred in the fact that it is a great motivator.

I don't see love and hate as being part of a continuum and/or polar opposites.

A lack of hatred is also a great stablizer, in that your will remains your own. There are other means of motivation that are healthier.

Imagine not hating your enemy on the field of battle?
Imagine not hating the cowardly rapist and pedophile?
Imagine not hating the terrorist that destroyed the lives of innocent men, women, and children?
Imagine not hating the cancer that took your loved one?

I don't have to imagine.

~~~~~
On another note, one could make the argument that ignorance of things like greed, hatred, delusion, lust, etc can be detrimental, in that you would not know them or identify if you encountered them. Experiencing these emotions at least once in your life could be beneficial in that you can then verify the reality of the existance of these emotions, and innoculate your mind against them in the future. This would also assist in your ability to empathize with others whose minds have been overcome by these emotions, as well.

 

[Thomas]

A balance for example of Love & Hate is desired, love for obvious reasons, hatred in the fact that it is a great motivator.

Actually that's not balanced, and in philosophy is a flawed discussion. One doesn't need a negative to appreciate a positive.

Hatred is not a great motivator — a wrong never makes a right, the end never justifies the means, etc.

Imagine not hating your enemy on the field of battle?
Imagine not hating the cowardly rapist and pedophile?
Imagine not hating the terrorist that destroyed the lives of innocent men, women, and children?
Imagine not hating the cancer that took your loved one?

Actually all the samples you offer show a rather disturbing psychological imbalance — 'hate' doesn't solve anything in these situations, and the usual response is to reply in kind, which gets nobody anywhere.

Imagine the mess we'd be in if everyone acted like Gandhi, and simply refused to play these games ...

God bless,

Thomas

 

[Etu Malku]

all the samples you offer show a rather disturbing psychological imbalance — 'hate' doesn't solve anything in these situations, and the usual response is to reply in kind, which gets nobody anywhere.

God bless,

Thomas

Let me put another way for 'you'
I'd hate to have you as my partner on the battle field
I'd hate to have you as the detective investigating the rape of my daughter
I'd hate to have you in a government office
I'd hate to have you as my oncologist

And you'd be damn certain that I would be motivated to NOT have you as any of them . . . is that any clearer?

Situations Solved and in better hands of someone who probably will be Motivated enough for results.

If you turn the other cheek, what's to stop that cheek from getting slapped?

 

[seattlegal]

Let me put another way for 'you'
I'd hate to have you as my partner on the battle field
I'd hate to have you as the detective investigating the rape of my daughter
I'd hate to have you in a government office
I'd hate to have you as my oncologist

And you'd be damn certain that I would be motivated to NOT have you as any of them . . . is that any clearer?

Situations Solved and in better hands of someone who probably will be Motivated enough for results.

If you turn the other cheek, what's to stop that cheek from getting slapped?

Do you really need hate to motivate you to deter harm? Wouldn't hate make you more prone to jump to (possibly wrong) conclusions and cling to those conclusions, preventing you from investigating possibly pertinent clues/evidence and leading you away from a possible solution? Is hatred more intelligent than non-hatred?

 

[Etu Malku]

Do you really need hate to motivate you to deter harm? Wouldn't hate make you more prone to jump to (possibly wrong) conclusions and cling to those conclusions, preventing you from investigating possibly pertinent clues/evidence and leading you away from a possible solution? Is hatred more intelligent than non-hatred?

You don't know me very well . . . do you?

 

[seattlegal]

You don't know me very well . . . do you?

LOL, true!

 

[wil]

On the hate issue....

I'd rather have folks working on my case that didn't hate. Hate gives us war crimes and vengeance, not clear headed soldiers. I'd want my detective to be looking at and investigating the crime, not making mistakes by hating the perps. An Oncologist that hates cancer??

I'm sure learning why I don't want to have this mindset, but I won't paint all Luciferians with the same brush...

Imagine the mess we'd be in if everyone acted like Gandhi, and simply refused to play these games ...
.
God bless,

Thomas

Ok, let me imagine for a moment.....


ahhhhhhh...........


I think I'll just continue to imagine for an hour or two longer......


thanx.

 

[Etu Malku]

Then imagine being one of his neglected sons . . . ahhh, yes the hate returns!

 

[radarmark]

Let me put another way for 'you'
I'd hate to have you as my partner on the battle field
I'd hate to have you as the detective investigating the rape of my daughter
I'd hate to have you in a government office
I'd hate to have you as my oncologist

And you'd be damn certain that I would be motivated to NOT have you as any of them . . . is that any clearer?

Situations Solved and in better hands of someone who probably will be Motivated enough for results.

If you turn the other cheek, what's to stop that cheek from getting slapped?

Having been on the battlefield, gosh, are you wrong!
I would rather have Monk then that idiot who worked OJ Simpson any day.
If governments are ruled by hate, no wonder we are so seriously screwed up.
I also have a very bright and non-hateful oncologist (pacifist). Kept me alive for 15 years.

Where did you get this really (to me) neo-sociological information from?