If Jesus returned tomorrow...

Baptism: Not originally a Christian practice
So? Baptism is a Rite as old as man ...

In all the examples you offer, none quite match the Christian understanding, which is my point.

The Breaking of Bread is not originally a Christian Rite, any more than the Covenant spoken of in the Bible is not originally a Hebraic Rite, but the words of the Decalogue set the Hebraic Rite apart from those performed in the exact same way in the Mesopotamian region, and the understanding of the Eucharist or Agape Meal is unique among breaking-bread rites.

As I keep pointing out, it's the spirit, not the letter, that counts.

God bless,

Thomas
 
Hi Arthra — I think you miss the salient point.

I'm not attempting to alter your views, by the way, just correcting a misrepresentation of the Bible. The miracles happened, the authors are quite clear when they present something as an insight or a revelation, a metaphor or an analogy (or parable, to use the broader term), or as an inexplicable and miraculous event. John's use of the term 'sign' suggests this even moreso.

For me anyway a "miracle" without a spiritual meaning may only be a magic trick.
I quite agree, but that's not what I'm saying — I'm saying a "spiritual meaning" without a realised physical counterpart is not a miracle — if there is no physical component, there's no 'miracle' at all, it's just a figure of speech, a metaphor.

Thomas
 
If you're going to defend Simon as an advert of the LHP, the first hurdle you have is to justify his attempt to buy his way in?
The Simon of the Acts and the Simon of the fathers both retain the two features of the possession of magical power and of collision with Peter, the tone of the narratives is entirely different.

Though the apostles are naturally shown as rejecting with indignation the pecuniary offer of the thaumaturge, they display no hate for his personality, whereas the fathers depict him as the vilest of impostors and charlatans and hold him up to universal execration.

The incident of Simon's offering money to Peter is admittedly taken by the fathers from this account, and therefore their repetition in no way corroborates the story. Hence its authenticity rests entirely with the writer of the Acts, for Justin, who was a native of Samaria, does not mention it. As the Acts are not quoted from prior to A.D. 177, and their writer is only traditionally claimed to be Luke, we may safely consider ourselves in the domain of legend and not of history.

If Simon, as the Acts report, thought to purchase spiritual powers with money, or that those who were really in possession of such powers would ever sell them, we can understand the righteous indignation of the apostles, though we cannot understand their cursing a brother-man. The view of the Christian writer on this point is a true one, but the dogma that every operation which is not done in the name of the particular Master of Christendom is of the Devil—or, to avoid personifications, is evil—can hardly find favour with those who believe in the brotherhood of the whole race and that Deity is one, no matter under what form worshiped.

As for Gnosticism, it is as much of an umbrella term as Christianity is. There are Gnostic Luciferians and they would be a better choice to discuss this than I am.

Outside of patristic sources, the Simonians are briefly mentioned in the Testimony of Truth (58,1-60,3) from the Nag Hammadi Library, in which they are regarded as gnostic "heretics"!
Simon is mentioned in Acts, the Legends,the Fathers and of course Nag Hammadi.

We thought there was ... A statue was found on an island in the Tiber with the inscription Simoni Deo Sancto, "Simon the Holy God". However, in the 16th century, another statue was unearthed inscribed to Semo Sancus, which is a Sabine deity, leading most scholars to believe that Justin Martyr confused Semoni Sancus with Simon.

God bless,

Thomas
i. Justinus Martyr (Apologia, I. 26). Text: Corpus Apologetarum Christianorum Sæculi Secundi (edidit Io. Car. Th. Eques de Otto); Jenæ, 1876 (ed. tert.).


"a certain Samaritan, Simon, who came from a village called Gitta; who in the reign of Claudius Cæsar wrought magic wonders by the art of the daemons who possessed him, and was considered a god in your imperial city of Rome, and as a god was honoured with a statue by you, which statue was erected in the river Tiber, between the two bridges, with the following inscription in Roman: "Simoni Deo Sancto."
 
I'm not attempting to alter your views, by the way, just correcting a misrepresentation of the Bible.

Do you think the writings in the bible are as they were written originally? No alterations, additions, deletions, or modifications? If there were any, what would it mean to misrepresent the bible?
 
Back
Top