Vegetarians' dilema

V

voiceofwood

Guest
If like me you don't eat meat on ethical grounds, if others depended on you remaining alive for their survival and the only way you could stay alive was to eat one of the following which would it be?

1. A still born baby
2. A freshly killed wild animal
 
Okay come on now. At this point you are just trolling for absurdity. Since my choices are so limited, I will go with a still born baby calf. After all you didn't specify what animal the baby had to be!
 
If there was no vegetation... no plants, no fruits, no stalks no roots....

but in front of me was an animal carcass....

and I was starving....

I suppose I'd eat it.

Although this either/or supposition is as bad as all the rest...

Vegetarians don't have a dilemma....carrion eaters have a dilemma regarding vegetarians....

also many vegetarians are not so due to ethical/animal rights reasons....many are for health reasons and I'd guess the majority are for religious reasons.
 
Ok, since people are quibbling about this, the choices are

1. A still born human baby
2. Kill and eat a wild animal, lets say a rabbit (Access to snares available)

Will, did you not see I said, "If like me you don't eat meat on ethical grounds"

Just saying there is not dilemma when there is one seems to be a habit of yours
 
Well then....

What is your answer?

As I said, I am a veggie on health grounds, if it were ethics I would be a Jain and only eat what has been provided for me by nature and not kill anything plant or animal for my survival....wear a mask so I wouldn't inadvertently eat a gnat, and sweep in front of me so I wouldn't step on crawly things...

Since I am not, since survival would be my goal...I'd eat either...no dilemma for me.

what say you?
 
wil said:
Well then....

What is your answer?

As I said, I am a veggie on health grounds, if it were ethics I would be a Jain and only eat what has been provided for me by nature and not kill anything plant or animal for my survival....wear a mask so I wouldn't inadvertently eat a gnat, and sweep in front of me so I wouldn't step on crawly things...

Since I am not, since survival would be my goal...I'd eat either...no dilemma for me.

what say you?
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So as you are not a vegetarian on ethical grounds, which is what the question specified, the dilemma does not apply to you. There is a dilemma but only for those that are vegetarian on ethical grounds
 
wil said:
I agree, as stated....and since you are a vegetarian on ethical grounds....I am still awaiting your response.
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Hey! Don't be impatient, I asked the question and await answers from others. I will let you know my choice soon enough
 
Impatient? To me that is the way discussion works...

I pose something....I say what I think about it... and then we discuss my viewpoint, theirs and variants, differences, similarities of both...

Setting out questions....trolling for absurdity....and pointing out what others saying is wrong, doesn't fit the paradigm....

That is more entrapment than discussion....but that is just my opinion.
 
wil said:
Impatient? To me that is the way discussion works...

I pose something....I say what I think about it... and then we discuss my viewpoint, theirs and variants, differences, similarities of both...

Setting out questions....trolling for absurdity....and pointing out what others saying is wrong, doesn't fit the paradigm....

That is more entrapment than discussion....but that is just my opinion.
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1. Trolling for absurdity -false allegation
2. Entrapment - nonsense

Yes, exchange of opinion is perhaps more of a normal dialogue but since you are not an ethical vegetarian I preferred to wait and hear from some without colouring the discussion by disclosing my view first
 
Voice, if you will allow, there are some comments I would like to make. Now obviously I do not know you personally at all. So what I am going to say can only be stated by my observation and inference of what you have written.

So. And with respect. It seems to me that most of the questions you have asked on this forum tend to be the type of question where you are looking for a specific response. A response that will allow you to finish with the eventual 'gotcha' statement.

Hence Wil's comment that this thread is more entrapment than discussion. I am not the only one with this perception.

I knew from the get go that you were referring to a human baby still born in your OP. After all one would not use that term unless it was about the human agenda. My answer therefor took the non specification in your original post to make the still born other than human.

Which you promptly overrode and restated your initial post more precisely. It 'had' to be a human baby.

The impression (and, again I do not know you so it is my impression) is that you have asked this particular question not to engage in an open debate, but to illicit specific responses that will serve your ultimate agenda.

No one enjoys being used. There is little point in having a discussion when you appear to already have your desired answer before you asked the question.

Am I wrong about everything I have said here. Very possibly. I am open to a response from you that these are not your intentions at all. I am hoping you will actually. Lively debate is what makes forums fun! There does need to be a sense of a level playing field though. And if I am misreading your intentions, you need to consider the wording you are currently using does not appear to have the intent of open and forthright debate.

Your thoughts?
 
Gordian Knot said:
Voice, if you will allow, there are some comments I would like to make. Now obviously I do not know you personally at all. So what I am going to say can only be stated by my observation and inference of what you have written.

So. And with respect. It seems to me that most of the questions you have asked on this forum tend to be the type of question where you are looking for a specific response. A response that will allow you to finish with the eventual 'gotcha' statement.

Hence Wil's comment that this thread is more entrapment than discussion. I am not the only one with this perception.

I knew from the get go that you were referring to a human baby still born in your OP. After all one would not use that term unless it was about the human agenda. My answer therefor took the non specification in your original post to make the still born other than human.

Which you promptly overrode and restated your initial post more precisely. It 'had' to be a human baby.

The impression (and, again I do not know you so it is my impression) is that you have asked this particular question not to engage in an open debate, but to illicit specific responses that will serve your ultimate agenda.

No one enjoys being used. There is little point in having a discussion when you appear to already have your desired answer before you asked the question.

Am I wrong about everything I have said here. Very possibly. I am open to a response from you that these are not your intentions at all. I am hoping you will actually. Lively debate is what makes forums fun! There does need to be a sense of a level playing field though. And if I am misreading your intentions, you need to consider the wording you are currently using does not appear to have the intent of open and forthright debate.

Your thoughts?
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Well I am sorry I given that impression, I no not why unless it is my manner of expression. My purpose, if purpose there be, was and is to see which of the two options people would choose and why. In fact why they chose their option was of more interest to me than the option selected

My impression of those rewriting the question, when they understand its intent is that they are like a person who is shy to say what they believe

I would be interested to hear what 'gotcha' response you imagine there could be, since I am unable to imagine one myself
 
With the current raging debate about stem cell research, and where it is appropriate to harvest stem cells, my impression was that the stillborn baby was included because you had some comment to make about the stem cell debate.

The reason my thinking was going in that direction is that your two choices were so very different. One was a freshly killed animal, one was a stillborn baby. We kill animals all the time for food. We have never ever considered, to my knowledge, eating a still born baby. So why would anyone choose A over B? Unless you had some yet undisclosed agenda to add.

I freely admit, everything I surmised was an assumption. And we all know the dangers of assuming! I will compound my error by saying that my thoughts on the other responses was that they were also suspicious about your intent. Another assumption!!! But if true, that is why they were wanting to rewrite your question.

Having been here a while now, I can tell you there aren't too many people who are shy about giving their opinion. If anything, it is sometimes too far in the other direction!

Anyway, you do have me very curious. Why would you think anyone might pick the baby over animal meat?
 
Gordian Knot said:
With the current raging debate about stem cell research, and where it is appropriate to harvest stem cells, my impression was that the stillborn baby was included because you had some comment to make about the stem cell debate.

The reason my thinking was going in that direction is that your two choices were so very different. One was a freshly killed animal, one was a stillborn baby. We kill animals all the time for food. We have never ever considered, to my knowledge, eating a still born baby. So why would anyone choose A over B? Unless you had some yet undisclosed agenda to add.

I freely admit, everything I surmised was an assumption. And we all know the dangers of assuming! I will compound my error by saying that my thoughts on the other responses was that they were also suspicious about your intent. Another assumption!!! But if true, that is why they were wanting to rewrite your question.

Having been here a while now, I can tell you there aren't too many people who are shy about giving their opinion. If anything, it is sometimes too far in the other direction!

Anyway, you do have me very curious. Why would you think anyone might pick the baby over animal meat?
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Stem cell research never crossed my mind.

Hmmm, I am tempted to say, honi soit qui mal y pense, but will refrain

Well I think there are good reasons to choose either over the over. I take it then you would kill and eat the animal? Would it be the same choice if you were a vegetarian for ethical reasons? (I am presuming you are not)
 
Who is shy? If participation in discussion is your aim... don't be shy. State your thoughts opinions on the matter and others will respond.

It now appears you are interested in making the argument that the stillborn will sustain you and save you from trying to kill an animal for your survival.

This is one reason why these games are of so little interest to me. The actual discussion would be of interest....but the riddles...when I am interested in them I go to the comedy club....not the interfaith forum.
 
wil said:
Who is shy? If participation in discussion is your aim... don't be shy. State your thoughts opinions on the matter and others will respond.

It now appears you are interested in making the argument that the stillborn will sustain you and save you from trying to kill an animal for your survival.

This is one reason why these games are of so little interest to me. The actual discussion would be of interest....but the riddles...when I am interested in them I go to the comedy club....not the interfaith forum.
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Can't really say I am very interested in your negativity
 
Can't really say your stonewalling and disinterest in discussion and decorum excites me.

I've been trying to give you hints, not subtle ones either as how to encourage discussion. I've played in these parts for a while, seen many come and go, and had many a enjoyable and informative time doing it. My hope is that you will as well. Time will tell.
 
wil said:
Can't really say your stonewalling and disinterest in discussion and decorum excites me.

I've been trying to give you hints, not subtle ones either as how to encourage discussion. I've played in these parts for a while, seen many come and go, and had many a enjoyable and informative time doing it. My hope is that you will as well. Time will tell.
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Yes, you have indeed been trying to dictate how I should conduct this discussion

Seems there are many petty tyrants here
 
wil said:
When you join a party, and bump heads with everyone at the party...
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Yes, I've met you type many times before; it's my bat and my ball and you play by my rules or not at all.

Scratch a liberal and find a fascist
 
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