Shiva adopted by Gnostics.

For me, this is why he is claimed by Yogi's.

The Vedas are very confusing!

No other character is as complete, as dualistic, paradoxical.

Thus, he represents Yoga.

The union of opposites.

The transcendent reality.

Experience-able.
 
It doesn't matter AT ALL what you believe to cause that.

Merging opposites, dissolving duality consciously, something happens.

Meditation is another way to encounter it - and can happen utterly without learning.

There are many ways.

Life itself is the way.

Devotion needs something to be devoted to though.

Hence Yoga is personified in Shiva.

The Yogi cares only for Union.

The rest is towards union already, cannot be otherwise.

It is just about seeing how it is expressing it.
 
Only a sectarian mind would not notice his desire when it presents.

The texts have become more important than the actuality, how?

The texts have (at best) come from that actuality.

Before it is recorded, it has been conveyed.

Maybe they were better times, you didn't need to justify.

It was simply recognized.
 
Speaking in platitudes is just that ... speaking in platitudes. It's worthless drivel unto itself, ... fun for awhile, but then the subjective world comes along, and yoiu have to get a job and deal with people who have real problems. If you want to help someone, you show them the path ... how to control anger, and practice ahimsa, for example Karma will not be alleviated, unless action, dharmic action takes place.

In the 60s some eastern teachers came to the west. They were shocked when they found out about drug use, promiscuity, etc. So they had to modify the teachings to suit the audience.

You see, Sir, I already know all that stuff about God Siva. I've heard it many times, and it's nothing new. The neo-advaita speakers ramble away. When nobody listens, they go on to try to find someone else. The message by itself is useless like seed that has never been planted.
 
Senthil said:
Speaking in platitudes is just that ... speaking in platitudes. It's worthless drivel unto itself, ... fun for awhile, but then the subjective world comes along, and yoiu have to get a job and deal with people who have real problems. If you want to help someone, you show them the path ... how to control anger, and practice ahimsa, for example Karma will not be alleviated, unless action, dharmic action takes place.
Click to expand...

I am not interested in how to control anger, why? It is not a mistake. It is about looking at why you are angry, is it divisive or unifying? Motive is more important than activity.

Karma means action, who is the doer? The world is the activity of Shakti, she is the doer, trying to satisfy consciousness. What is the basis for your desires? The past is gone, forget it, what do you want now? What is your motivation this moment? Start here, move towards union, notice union is all things, the processes of it, the underlying motive of all towards it - albeit in unconscious ways.

For me, Dharma is exactly that all seeks union. Within the play, there is attachment and aversion, responses which cause clinging to time. They create the appearance of something separate, ego or self.

It is not actually something wrong, it is just the peak of unconscious. It is the unity of past experiences called "me". Consciously, this union expands to become all inclusive, unconsciously it remains a result of story.

Senthil said:
In the 60s some eastern teachers came to the west. They were shocked when they found out about drug use, promiscuity, etc. So they had to modify the teachings to suit the audience.
Click to expand...

Shiva is Lord of Dhang - a drink made from ganga.
Shiva is known for his sexual prowess.

For me it is not about WHAT, it is about WHY.

No action intended to assist in unity is wrong, no matter what the action.

Senthil said:
You see, Sir, I already know all that stuff about God Siva. I've heard it many times, and it's nothing new. The neo-advaita speakers ramble away. When nobody listens, they go on to try to find someone else. The message by itself is useless like seed that has never been planted.
Click to expand...

This is another aspect of your issue with me, you want to feel you are elite, unique.

I am sorry you feel challenged by me, but you must recognize this is expected? The Guru will make you utterly uncomfortable, you will want to get away, you will want to fight, something.

I am here to kill you.
 
Acting unconsciously, enamored with Shakti, ego is there.

Activing consciously, you are Shiva, the consciousness of activity, Shakti.

Now, thoughts are Shakti, emotions are Shakti, sensations are Shakti, everything you are conscious of is Shakti. Indeed, without Shakti, there is no experience possible, hence desire for her.

You are pervading all, you are Shiva.

Can you not be ascetic in your conscious aspect, and yet enjoy the forms?

For me, this is the true expression of Shiva.
 
We see the same in human relationships, we can become almost possessed in love.

There is no consciousness left of yourself, you have morphed into anger or desire or whatever...

The intent is to not fall, not become entangled, to remain as Shiva, conscious of all that is happening.

Now, if it is conscious, if you are perfectly aware of all you do, how will you act wrongly?

If you are utterly devoted to unity, if union is your principle desire, how will you go wrong?
 
Now, the same action is auspicious.

Before, it was utterly animalistic, now it is human.

Consciousness remains pure through all that occurs.
 
SatyamAbhidi said:
Om Shanti.



For me, this is why Brahma exists, with his Manu giving laws.
It is why Vishnu exists, to prepare you for the possibility that this can happen to you - especially through Krishna.

Perhaps this is where we differ? I see the whole pantheon as culminating in Shiva, I see the others as aspects of him.

For me, "towards union", or "unifying" is the ultimate moral or ethic... consider the consequences!

Can you think of a single law, moral or ethic that is divisive?

The very basis of a law is to unite around a standard.



I am not taking the position of teacher, I am just not presenting doubt.

For me, there is a huge difference!

The union of humility and arrogance is to be natural.



No, I invite criticism.

Perhaps this is the nature of my approach?

I want to find a union, hence membership on an interfaith forum. If you present divisiveness I will push against it, if you show understanding of what I am saying, I will celebrate it.

Ultimately, I am not here for my entertainment, I am here to share.



Again, this is your prerogative.

It is another reason I choose this medium for sharing!

You can ignore, you can shrug it off, there is no need to become antagonistic.

Yet, it is there if you choose to engage.

I assure you I am not this way in everyday life, I simply enjoy what comes. I have specifically chosen an interfaith forum though because for me the highest attainment of inter-whatever is finding union.

For me, this is Yoga in action.



Yes, as Transcendant God, Supreme Being, he is all.

I have actually communicated this, Shakti comes from Shiva, Vishnu takes Shakti form in Mohini to become subordinate to Shiva, Brahma comes from Vishnu's navel. Krishna is the avatar and savior of Vishnu.

Thus, Shiva is the goal.

I also find his personal form interesting however, despite understanding his transcendental reality. I do not think we disagree.



Om shanti.



I have not claimed to be a Saivite, to be fair.

I am a Yogi, and thus am devoted to Shiva as Adi Yogi.
Click to expand...

Wait, all of a sudden you're capable of formulating complete sentences and even stack one or two after each other?
 
BigJoeNobody said:
Why is it every time you speak I hear some cult leader telling everyone to drink the magic juice. And yelling "I AM THE MASTER!"
Click to expand...

The West is so unfamiliar with truth that any fool can pretend.

It makes it very difficult to spot authenticity, better to ignore all...

It is fine, take what is useful, leave the rest.

You are your authority hmm? I do not want to be your authority, even if I am made your authority, you have done it, thus remaining your own ultimate authority... make sense?

I want to help, if you feel I am harmful to you I probably will be.

Not to be confused with my prior statement of wanting to kill someone above, these are not contradictions... he knows my intent - or should.

What is your preparedness?

This is how I speak.
 
SatyamAbhidi said:
This is another aspect of your issue with me, you want to feel you are elite, unique.
Click to expand...

Personally, I believe its the opposite. You seem to be the one spouting uniqueness. I'm just a simple old Siva bhaktar with nothing better to do on a cold winter's day. :)

Besides, when 'you' think 'someone' has a problem with 'you'. Then it isn't at all in the union so highly speak of, but in the realm of disharmony. In other words, maya.

We are all in Siva, and Siva is in all of us. Anbe Shivamayam Satyame Parashivam.
 
SatyamAbhidi said:
The West is so unfamiliar with truth that any fool can pretend.
Click to expand...

There are wise man and fools in east and in west. The geography of the planet has nothing to do with Shivaness. Jnana is open to all, regardless of birth. Shiva knows no caste, no creed, no language for He is all and in all. :)
 
Senthil said:
Personally, I believe its the opposite. You seem to be the one spouting uniqueness. I'm just a simple old Siva bhaktar with nothing better to do on a cold winter's day. :)
Click to expand...

What I have said about uniqueness is this notion that existence doesn't repeat... there is no need, it has already been done that way.

Senthil said:
Besides, when 'you' think 'someone' has a problem with 'you'. Then it isn't at all in the union so highly speak of, but in the realm of disharmony. In other words, maya.
Click to expand...

Yes, is this not the game being played right now?

Senthil said:
We are all in Siva, and Siva is in all of us. Anbe Shivamayam Satyame Parashivam.
Click to expand...

Indeed, but theory is different from realization.
 
Senthil said:
There are wise man and fools in east and in west. The geography of the planet has nothing to do with Shivaness. Jnana is open to all, regardless of birth. Shiva knows no caste, no creed, no language for He is all and in all. :)
Click to expand...

It is true, and hence they worship me everywhere.

Yet, to think the West is not susceptible to cults merely on the basis of their texts is to deny the evidence presented.

I do not think the Jones Town Massacre could have happened in India, for instance.

Yet, the Thugies prove me wrong.

Generally, the Indian has a better criteria for discernment, though.

If he is not ready, it is foolish to force.

It will only solidify ego.
 
Again, receptivity is important.

There is a time and place for everything.
 
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