Why is everyone's life valuable?

Then please explain how humans have developed genuine compassion on their own thru the law of natural selection, aka "Survival of the fittest".
 
Simple really. We are not automatons. We are not ruled exclusively by survival of the fittest. We are not wired to only consider that. There are many avenues of thought on how to live. And even 'fittest' is open to interpretation. Your misunderstanding is in thinking that humanity is fixated on natural selection to the exclusion of all else. We are not.
 
Devils' Advocate said:
Simple really. We are not automatons. We are not ruled exclusively by survival of the fittest. We are not wired to only consider that. There are many avenues of thought on how to live. And even 'fittest' is open to interpretation. Your misunderstanding is in thinking that humanity is fixated on natural selection to the exclusion of all else. We are not.
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Care to elaborate on what 'all else' is that influenced us (humans) and shaped our mentality beside "survival of the fittest"?
 
What shapes the portion of the world without a god to be compassionate.and caring? Buddhists, taoists, etc... Or all the agnostics and atheists... The religious community not only doesn't corner the market... They often forget it.
 
Lux said:
... This is the mindset of tribalism I was talking about earlier. But come to think of it, tribalism is something all social animals (apes, dogs, etc.) that live in a group practice. For an animal to survive, it is crucial that the group you belong to is strong, preferably the strongest, so you have better chances surviving in tribal wars that inevitably happen over limited food and habitable lands.

And I'd have to say this is 'normal' or 'natural' for any group animal. We don't think other animals are evil when they practice tribalism for their survival. But when we humans do it, it's deemed evil ... why is that? As if we are given a different set of rules and expected to behave differently ...
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In a tribe one is required to share everything with your family clan. It's unthinkable a member of one's extended family group should starve, where another member has food.

The same applies between family clans within a tribe.

But if someone from another tribe comes to you, starving, he will be allowed to die.

This is an over simplification, but holds good in principle, imo?
 
wil said:
What shapes the portion of the world without a god to be compassionate.and caring? Buddhists, taoists, etc... Or all the agnostics and atheists... The religious community not only doesn't corner the market... They often forget it.
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I posted this before, but I'll post it here again.

I see "survival" as a self-centered animalistic instinct that we're all saddled with, "conscience" as a divine instinct that keeps reminding us of our true nature, the part that's made in the image of God. There always is a tug-of-war between these different types of instincts. In some occasions, animalistic instinct wins, in other times, divine instinct wins.

It all depends on how receptive one is to the divine voice. And the reception can be completely subconscious, that one doesn't have to think that he believes in God, doesn't have to know he is following the voice of God. In the same way homing pigeons follow the earth's magnetic field without knowing that's what they're doing.
 
RJM Corbet said:
In a tribe one is required to share everything with your family clan. It's unthinkable a member of one's extended family group should starve, where another member has food.

The same applies between family clans within a tribe.

But if someone from another tribe comes to you, starving, he will be allowed to die.

This is an over simplification, but holds good in principle, imo?
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Which tribe are you a member of.... Tribes do this, atheists think that Muslims are...

All those tribes are believers in the creator...and know you are saying they don't know the good....so.confused


I just.came from standing rock...hundredss of tribes...and thousands from the tribe called veterans...working to protect those they do not know
 
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Lux said:
I posted this before, but I'll post it here again.

I see "survival" as a self-centered animalistic instinct that we're all saddled with, "conscience" as a divine instinct that keeps reminding us of our true nature, the part that's made in the image of God. There always is a tug-of-war between these different types of instincts. In some occasions, animalistic instinct wins, in other times, divine instinct wins.

It all depends on how receptive one is to the divine voice. And the reception can be completely subconscious, that one doesn't have to think that he believes in God, doesn't have to know he is following the voice of God. In the same way homing pigeons follow the earth's magnetic field without knowing that's what they're doing.
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That is pretty convenient eh? The nonbeliever who does good doesn't know he is following god....and the believer doing evil is just an anomaly....

The argument doesn't hold water.
 
wil said:
That is pretty convenient eh? The nonbeliever who does good doesn't know he is following god....and the believer doing evil is just an anomaly....

The argument doesn't hold water.
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So, before we discovered the existence of the geomagnetic field, pigeons weren't following it because we didn't know that's what they were doing?

Claiming that you believe in God, doesn't mean anything. Do you believe the people who say "I'm a good person" are always good people?

It's fine if you think my argument doesn't hold water. It's my belief and not yours.
 
Lux said:
It's fine if you think my argument doesn't hold water. It's my belief and not yours.
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So when a believer vaulters he doesn't.really believe....and when an atheist does.something good G!d has his fingers in that.

It makes for a nice pretty package.
 
wil said:
So when a believer vaulters he doesn't.really believe....and when an atheist does.something good G!d has his fingers in that.

It makes for a nice pretty package.
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Are you here to just ridicule others' beliefs? Or are you gonna present your case and logically explain what you think about the true reality of our existence and nature?
 
Lux said:
Are you here to just ridicule others' beliefs? Or are you gonna present your case and logically explain what you think about the true reality of our existence and nature?
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Are you saying my logic is flawed?

Or are you saying I should post an argument littered with holes and no one should dare dispute it?
 
wil said:
Are you saying my logic is flawed?

Or are you saying I should post an argument littered with holes and no one should dare dispute it?
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Then could you please kindly answer "yes or no" to the questions in my post #30 ?

Also show me who has ever posted comments that are perfect, I mean, no holes to you.
 
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RJM Corbet said:
In a tribe one is required to share everything with your family clan. It's unthinkable a member of one's extended family group should starve, where another member has food.

The same applies between family clans within a tribe.

But if someone from another tribe comes to you, starving, he will be allowed to die.

This is an over simplification, but holds good in principle, imo?
Click to expand...

Are you talking about other animals or us humans also?
 
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Lux said:
Then could you please kindly answer "yes or no" to the questions in my post #30 ?

Also show me who has ever posted comments that are perfect, I mean, no holes to you.
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my browser doesn't show any numbers...counting looks like you are wanting to know if i am here just to ridicule others beliefs? Hell no.

And then first you chastise me for questioning and pointing out fallacy while saying nobody's posts are without holes?

You confuse me. You wish me to ignore the holes and crawl under a rock?

I got in trouble in 3rs grade for telling the neighbor lady she was supposed to pit the cherries before baking them in the pie. My mom and dad were incensed and embarrassed... My neighbor thanked me for.pointing out her error and not letting her think that her mistake was correct.
 
wil said:
my browser doesn't show any numbers...counting looks like you are wanting to know if i am here just to ridicule others beliefs? Hell no.

And then first you chastise me for questioning and pointing out fallacy while saying nobody's posts are without holes?

You confuse me. You wish me to ignore the holes and crawl under a rock?

I got in trouble in 3rs grade for telling the neighbor lady she was supposed to pit the cherries before baking them in the pie. My mom and dad were incensed and embarrassed... My neighbor thanked me for.pointing out her error and not letting her think that her mistake was correct.
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Q1 - So, before we discovered the existence of the geomagnetic field, pigeons weren't following it because we didn't know that's what they were doing?

Q2 - Claiming that you believe in God, doesn't mean anything. Do you believe the people who say "I'm a good person" are always good people?


To me, you haven't yet effectively articulated what those holes are and the reasons why you think so. When you do that, I will respond.
 
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Lux said:
Are you talking about other animals or us humans also?
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Oh us humans, definitely.

And we have to dehumanise the 'other' to justify killing them. Because we need their land, or for whatever reason.

The settlers in America, Africa etc, excluded the 'natives' from the need to treat them as human? The law for 'people' did not include natives.

We have to dehumanise the 'enemy' -- which perhaps carries your point that a regard for human life IS an unbuilt human quality?
 
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wil said:
Which tribe are you a member of.... Tribes do this, atheists think that Muslims are...

All those tribes are believers in the creator...and know you are saying they don't know the good....so.confused


I just.came from standing rock...hundredss of tribes...and thousands from the tribe called veterans...working to protect those they do not know
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I often find it easier to reduce an idea to basics.

A tribe, in the real sense, I meant.

Like: Zulu, not Xhosa. Or Cheyenne, not Apache?
 
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