Death is an illusion

[otherbrother]

I suppose mind…materialistic…

Yes, I think we both distinguish between some matter-like or matter-fied version of “mind” being different than whatever Mind-like characteristics God has. I acknowledge that Mind transcends mind. Or Theos transcends mind. But I also think mind is INCLUDED in Mind, and that we have a Supra-natural means of accessing Mind (not in the differentiating manner of little mind, but in some looser, more impressionistic, way). Yes, I think we might be saying the same (or similar) thing with different words. But let’s NOT call the whole thing off. Referring to My Fair Lady play/movie.

 

[otherbrother]

Yes, I think we both distinguish between some matter-like or matter-fied version of “mind” being different than whatever Mind-like characteristics God has. I acknowledge that Mind transcends mind. Or Theos transcends mind. But I also think mind is INCLUDED in Mind, and that we have a Supra-natural means of accessing Mind (not in the differentiating manner of little mind, but in some looser, more impressionistic, way). Yes, I think we might be saying the same (or similar) thing with different words. But let’s NOT call the whole thing off. Referring to My Fair Lady play/movie.

Being and consciousness appear to converge as we go deep enough to sense Ultimate Reality. One can at least vaguely sense how the Word may become flesh.

 

[Alif Balaam Yashin]

Regarding Thomas referring to what Powesee said (in another thread? I couldn’t find in preceding comments) : “Religion is a trap of the mind.”:

Transportation for Transformation

Religion is just a horse we ride
to change the way we are inside,
to go back to the way we were at the start,
to give and live with a happy heart.
If that’s not what you happen to learn,
get off the horse, and don’t return.
Take a walk in the woods, slow and with care,
in a manner that God may find you there.
Whether riding or walking,
the goal is the same.
Transformation alone glorifies God’s name.

My poem indicates that I side with Thomas on this one, in terms of religion’s potential. Unfortunately, superficial use of ritual and dogma can result in a need to get off of the horse. So, I don’t disagree totally with Powesee either. Religion can either stunt or assist spiritual growth. It’s according to how deep the practice and understanding runs. I tend to emphasize both depth and flow (energy) as general spiritual practices, such that going deep and sensing subtle energy becomes part of my “religion.” There are metaphors within Christianity that seem to support this depth/flow practice (fountain flowing deep and wide).

"Religion is a trap of the mind" . . . is it?
Perhaps certain religions are?

RELIGION (Merriam-Webster)
1: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
2: the service and worship of God or the supernatural
3: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

 

[otherbrother]

"Religion is a trap of the mind" . . . is it?
Perhaps certain religions are?

RELIGION (Merriam-Webster)
1: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
2: the service and worship of God or the supernatural
3: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

I tend to think that if you connect to a deep zone within your being as you “practice “ the religion, then it probably leads to more personal integration or wholeness, which also lends itself to creating a more harmonious culture. But we have trouble operating from a deep zone, so the superficiality contaminates religion and culture.
I believe that interconnectedness occurs naturally in the depths of self, where one may be said to realize his/her True Self.

 

[Alif Balaam Yashin]

I tend to think that if you connect to a deep zone within your being as you “practice “ the religion, then it probably leads to more personal integration or wholeness, which also lends itself to creating a more harmonious culture. But we have trouble operating from a deep zone, so the superficiality contaminates religion and culture.
I believe that interconnectedness occurs naturally in the depths of self, where one may be said to realize his/her True Self.

For the most part, I agree however, I don't believe the 'interconnectedness' is anything other than unnatural.

 

[TheLightWithin]

But the dream realm and the Divine are not at all the same thing. Dreams belong to minds, the Divine transcends all states.

Aren't there some belief systems which hold that dreamers enter, if not the divine, some supernatural world when in a dream state?

 

[TheLightWithin]

It is at these times I wish I believed. I wish I believed in a life after death, a heaven like many of you. I want to think he is in a better place...the phrase used at funerals...no longer experiencing the pain of this life.

But alas.

It is not hard to imagine, speculate, or hope... if belief means being thoroughly convinced, though, that is harder, as theories are many, little hints may be many, but solid evidence that holds up to scrutiny is very hard to find. But also: Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence.

 

[TheLightWithin]

Or, as has been said for more than two millennia ... Logos.

I would say Logos reveals Theos, but while what Logos reveals gives us a sense and a certainty, there is still a distinction between what we can know and predicate of Theos, and the θεία οὐσία (theia ousia), the Divine Essence, in Itself, which transcends all categories and all distinctions, including Mind.

Here are some pages I've run across recently, about the Jewish context of a closely related idea- Memra - that I know you reference later in this thread -with I think some overlapping references (I don't know if I looked it up because of your comments or whether it was one of those coincidences) I think these comments might expand on the idea some.

MEMRA - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Complete contents the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia.

jewishencyclopedia.com

Memra - The 1901 Jewish Encyclopedia -

;'The Word,' in the sense of the creative or directive word or speech of God manifesting His power in the world of matter or mind; a term used especially in the Targum as a substitute for 'the Lord' when an anthropomorphic expression is to be avoided.—Biblical Data: ;In Scripture 'the word of the

www.studylight.org

Was John’s Use of the Logos a Jewish Concept? (This writer is Messianic and his site links to regular Christian apologetics)

 

[Thomas]

Aren't there some belief systems which hold that dreamers enter, if not the divine, some supernatural world when in a dream state?

Honestly don't know ... I know that dreams can be used to deliver oracles, but more than that ... I would not say every dream is an entry into a supernatural realm.

 

[talib-al-kalim]

. I would say it is also maya for those that do not see clearly. The layers of the veil were meant to test mankind and to

I regard Maya as theophany, not as form as such. All life is maya. All being is maya.

I have never heard "Maya" in a sense different from the Maya people of Central America. Can you explain it to me?

 

[Alif Balaam Yashin]

I have never heard "Maya" in a sense different from the Maya people of Central America. Can you explain it to me?

Maya is the illusion of reality, making the material world seem separate from ultimate truth. In Vedanta, it is the deceptive power that hides the unity of Brahman. In Buddhism, it is the false perception of permanence and self. From a Left-Hand Path view, Maya is the veil of conditioned reality, not to be escaped but mastered and transcended through will and self-deification.

 

[powessy]

I have never heard "Maya" in a sense different from the Maya people of Central America. Can you explain it to me?

my first understanding of the word was a simple story I read. A man walked into a building to get some grain And as he did a snake dropped down from the ceiling of the room causing the man to run in fear. Moments later the man and several others returned with a light and as they entered the room they noticed the snake was nothing more then a rope. This is said to be maya, it is to bring light to a situation and to see it clearly.

powessy

 

[powessy]

Aren't there some belief systems which hold that dreamers enter, if not the divine, some supernatural world when in a dream state?

I would go as far as to say that your brain is not responsible for dreams, however Your brain is trying to interpretate what it is being shown by minds that are trying to keep you from figuring them out. instead of showing you something that does not make sense to you they show you things that make sense to you. I have multiple dream episodes per night, normally three base dreams and then some other none dream interactions even phase type events coming from any number of timelines. I directly interact with minds as they teach me about the time inside of them and ask questions why they never became something here to figure us out. The veil is on both sides it just is not what you or religion teaches you.

Powessy

 

[powessy]

"Religion is a trap of the mind" . . . is it?
Perhaps certain religions are?

RELIGION (Merriam-Webster)
1: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
2: the service and worship of God or the supernatural
3: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

My journey into the spiritual side of things started for me 12 years ago. I figured something out from memories prior to this lifetime. Minds on the other side started to unpack the questions and answers part of my journey which was enough to cause me many problems at least for the fist few years. I have never taken drugs, I do not drink and I have had a very good life, simple but honest.

As for the minds they taught me that all new minds have a mind that contains a himself and yourself within it that teaches us religion. I would say this mind is the god mind, and it teaches those that seek answers of spiritual natures, religious answers. The veil just does not want us figuring ourselves out or anything there out it will do anything to keep us blind to the truth.

powessy

 

[TheLightWithin]

Honestly don't know ... I know that dreams can be used to deliver oracles, but more than that ... I would not say every dream is an entry into a supernatural realm.

Maybe some kind of liminal space where oracles may speak to the dreamer...
But I think some indigenous traditions like Australian Aborigines and possibly others may hold the idea of entering a spirit realm in dreams.

 

[Thomas]

Maya is the illusion of reality, making the material world seem separate from ultimate truth. In Vedanta, it is the deceptive power that hides the unity of Brahman. In Buddhism, it is the false perception of permanence and self. From a Left-Hand Path view, Maya is the veil of conditioned reality, not to be escaped but mastered and transcended through will and self-deification.

Much the same as the RHP, Maya is a veil, which conceals and reveals.

I like the view that maya is appearance, illusory only in the sense that it is taken as reality, whereas it is real inasmuch as it is a theophany, a manifestation.

 

[Thomas]

Maybe some kind of liminal space where oracles may speak to the dreamer...
But I think some indigenous traditions like Australian Aborigines and possibly others may hold the idea of entering a spirit realm in dreams.

Well Abrahamics certainly do!

 

[Alif Balaam Yashin]

My journey into the spiritual side of things started for me 12 years ago. I figured something out from memories prior to this lifetime. Minds on the other side started to unpack the questions and answers part of my journey which was enough to cause me many problems at least for the fist few years. I have never taken drugs, I do not drink and I have had a very good life, simple but honest.

As for the minds they taught me that all new minds have a mind that contains a himself and yourself within it that teaches us religion. I would say this mind is the god mind, and it teaches those that seek answers of spiritual natures, religious answers. The veil just does not want us figuring ourselves out or anything there out it will do anything to keep us blind to the truth.

powessy

How would you define your "god mind"?

 

[powessy]

How would you define your "god mind"?

That is the interesting part. We are made up of trillions of cells, Every cell in my body that has become me is a part of me, a fragment. I call the mind that lives within us a meand This mind contains a fragment of a religious person within it and then you standing face to face with himself. On the right side, god side you have to know who he is, center path you have to know why he is here, and the left path you have to know everything about everything here. You can see the right side you do not need to know anything other then who he is. The other two paths you have to figure things out. He can also be anything you think him to be he will try to become it to teach you nothing at all. The only path that leads you out to become yourself is the center path all other paths must rip themselves apart to become something again. Basically be yourself and be true to who you are, know thyself, do unto others as you wish them to do unto you, this is ourselves this is the center path.

Don't get me wrong there is a god he just needs to figure himself out. To explain this you have to understand the process needed for a mind to figure itself out. A mind(yourself , memra) normally does not figure itself out until it has nothing inside of it teaching itself things. With this understanding then god will not figure himself out until this universe is almost nothing here many billions of years from now, or there is somewhere else that became nothing here to awaken him, or this universe is not all that there is.

powessy

 

[georgeingraham]

It is not hard to imagine, speculate, or hope... if belief means being thoroughly convinced, though, that is harder, as theories are many, little hints may be many, but solid evidence that holds up to scrutiny is very hard to find. But also: Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence.

It can be all about good old blind faith