Is Wicca pagan-lite?

rocala

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The idea of nature-based religions has long interested me. At a time of searching, I made a brief investigation of Wicca. At the time, it was the only one that I had heard of.

It was, to be frank, pretty disappointing. I have zero interest in spells and am not overly fond of ritual. Furthermore, much of what I found online seemed to be aimed at teenage girls and young women (no disrespect intended).

I joined an attractive looking forum but found that many of the questions were of the "how do I tell my parents I am a witch?" variety.

So, is Wicca as the title suggests? Has it perhaps evolved into something rather picturesque that is for people not wanting to be bothered by a deeper approach? Or are there some Wiccans out there doing and hopefully writing some good stuff?
 
The idea of nature-based religions has long interested me. At a time of searching, I made a brief investigation of Wicca. At the time, it was the only one that I had heard of.

It was, to be frank, pretty disappointing. I have zero interest in spells and am not overly fond of ritual. Furthermore, much of what I found online seemed to be aimed at teenage girls and young women (no disrespect intended).

I joined an attractive looking forum but found that many of the questions were of the "how do I tell my parents I am a witch?" variety.

So, is Wicca as the title suggests? Has it perhaps evolved into something rather picturesque that is for people not wanting to be bothered by a deeper approach? Or are there some Wiccans out there doing and hopefully writing some good stuff?

I looked into Wicca very briefly but I too wasn't attracted to the "young" focus. Actual Wicca,so read, is an initiation religion with strict rituals and practice. I don't think most have access to covens in order to get the deeper side of it. Sounds more individualistic.

What I'd suggest is listing your spiritual experiences separately. On another list what beliefs you believe and "know" is true based on those experiences, and basically questions you want to learn reflecting them.

The religion isn't new age, but it can be off-putting when reading stuff about it online. I took my advice above and found my experiences and knowing matched with ancestral practices that became more profound after my grandmother's death. I'd set the term Wicca aside, really. Start from experiences not belief.

Just my thoughts
 
Start from experiences not belief.
That is an interesting comment. I think it was Rupert Sheldrake who described attending religious events seeking an experience as opposed to matching things with his views. That apparently is how he became a churchgoer. It is not, IMO, an idea without some merit.
 
There are several lineages of Wicca, with various degrees of new-age fluff, commercial commodification, and appeal to younger audiences.

I've talked to Wiccans here in Germany, who seemed quite profound and hands-on in their practice. They were long-time adherents, raising their children in the tradition.

The emphasis on rituals and spells can be partially traced back to the influence of Gardner on Wicca. Gardner came from a background of Victorian ceremonial magic.

But there are other Wiccan groups who do not incorporate or emphasize the Gardner material. And there are plenty of pagans who are not Wiccans, though with them, an overlap with racist ideology is often (but not always) the case, unfortunately.
 
Personally I find the sociological impulses that gave rise to all manner of '.alt religion' movements in the late 19th/early 20th century interesting, although I must declare I've never gone into it deeply.

If I were to research I'd look at the idea of 'alt religion' as a response to 'enchantment and disenchantment' within an existing order of the mundane world and its institutionalised religions.

A line for me is the Industrial Revolution and the consequent counter, the the Romance Movement – enchantment/disenchantment again.

So I'd look at the likes of Crowley and Gardner and their contemporaries, and the currents on enchantment and disenchantment in the English social system as we totter towards the collapse of empire – for me they seem to have much to say about their age, as well as being products of it.

Men and women such as these were the new 'knights' searching for whatever 'grail' they could lay claim to ... Egyptology was all the rage, the Mystery of the Orient and all that ...

Underneath all this, of course, are currents embedded deep in the psyche, (the four yogas, for reference) and how these springs emerge and the courses they follow in the mental and material worlds inhabited by the persons involved.
 
Personally I find the sociological impulses that gave rise to all manner of '.alt religion' movements in the late 19th/early 20th century interesting,
I agree but would add the 1950s/60s to that. The Romantic movement is certainly an important part of the mix. I know some Modern Druids have written on this, perhaps others too. Environmentalism, I think, has given some of the sentiments a new lease of life.
 
Every time you look for Wicca, you will inevitably end up with fluff-bunny New Age sources by scam artists just making things up or plagiarizing other traditions out of context. I hate to say that, but it's true.

Gardnerian and Alexandrian Wicca, however, are Hermetic-based, bitheistic religions tied to the alchemical concepts of Solus and Luna. They build upon the same Hermetic traditions as Mathers and Crowley. They also require initiation into a coven by a priest/ess who has been initiated into a Grand Coven. A lot of these types of Wiccans stick to European folk magic and, while some of them do take a sort of eclectic approach to Indo-European Polytheism, this is usually done through the lens of Hermetic duotheism, which many pagans adopted themselves in the face of increasing Christianization.

Hermeticism really did become widespread as a tradition to blend various surviving pagan influences. Early Hermetic texts had rituals calling upon figures like Pluto, and later texts continue to mention sylphs, gnomes, salamanders, etc. Even Cerberus survives as the name of a spirit in later goetic grimoires. Wicca essentially just de-Christianizes the Hermetic tradition; something like Wicca was bound to happen eventually as religious freedom allows more people to openly divorce themselves from Christianity.

Most Wiccans don't even know what Hermeticism is, but I wonder to what degree these people could actually be considered Wiccan. Chakras, crystals, and sage certainly aren't Wiccan. Mojo bags aren't Wiccan. Colored candles aren't Wiccan. And yet a lot of self-identifying Wiccans use these things out of ignorance of their own tradition, never having even been initiated.

And, yeah, I know that's some tough talk, but I feel like they aren't really Wiccan in the same way "psychic mediums" aren't Spiritists and "voodoo witch doctors" aren't really Vodousaints and plastic shamans have nothing to do with authentic Native American traditions.

Figures like Silver Ravenwolf jumped on a trend and, because the general public didn't know anything about this obscure and secretive religion, made a quick buck off of other people's ignorance and slandered the name of Wicca while doing so.
 
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When the religion first came to public attention, it was commonly called "Witchcraft". For instance, Gerald Gardner—the man regarded as the "Father of Wicca"—referred to it as the "Craft of the Wise", "witchcraft", and "the witch-cult" during the 1950s. There is no evidence that he ever called it "Wicca", although he did refer to the collective community of Pagan Witches as "the Wica" (with one c). As a name for the religion, "Wicca" developed in Britain during the 1960s. It is not known who precisely invented the term "Wicca" in reference to the religion, although one possibility is that it might have been Gardner's rival Charles Cardell, who was referring to it as the "Craft of the Wiccens" by 1958. The first recorded use of the word "Wicca" appears in 1962, and it had been popularised to the extent that several British practitioners founded a newsletter called The Wiccan in 1968.

Doyle White, Ethan (2016). Wicca: History, Belief, and Community in Modern Pagan Witchcraft. Brighton: Sussex Academic Press.
Doyle White, Ethan (2010). "The Meaning of "Wicca": A Study in Etymology, History and Pagan Politics".
Seims, Melissa. "Wica or Wicca? – Politics and the Power of Words"
 
No, I wouldn't say so. Just because you don't like magic and ritual, which was certainly not invented by wicca doesn't mean its pagan lite. These things have been around for thousands of years and practiced by multiple religions, even by those religions that turn their noses up at it. Ho
 
Just because
No, not "just because" of anything. It was only fair that I mentioned my areas of interest. At no time did I mention anything regarding who might have "invented" anything". I am fully aware that "These things have been around for thousands of years and practiced by multiple religions," so your patronising remarks are not required

I stated that my search had been brief and finished the post with questions. In other words, I have not jumped to any conclusions and my search continues.
 
My phone has been having freezing and connection issues. So I didn't get to finish what I last wrote. That was supposed to be how. Your tone in the first post is pretty condescending.

Wicca has appeal to people in many demographics. I wasn't alive during the 60s, but I'm 100% certain that there was no online back then. Neo pagans back then started groups, covens, festivals, protests, founded the few pagan churches available, gave people a chance to be legally ordained and recognized in alternative faiths, and even got involved in advocation for alternative spiritualities to be considered equal on legal grounds.


And what's wrong with teenage girls and women finding spirituality that empowers them, when mainstream religions and societies continue to treat them like lesser citizens to this day? Remember that at some point, you were young too. A lot of people that started the movement are now old enough to have great grandchildren.

There are shallow people in every religion. Yes they can be very annoying. Yes wicca has had problems with historical innacuracy. There are also people who do delve deep into it. And various levels in between.

The current generation from what I've observed both demands to be taught by everyone, while railing against the ideas that clergy and teachers have existed long before they were born. That's their problem and they need to get themselves and their issues sorted. They also need to understand that people aren't an on demand encyclopedia, not everyone is capable of teaching or has the time, and to do research for themselves.


It baffles me that some of the ones in strict, bigoted, and extremist families don't have the sense to keep their yaps shut until they're adults. Is it fair that you hafta hide religion, like you do a pot stash? No its not. But life ain't fair and families aren't always loving and understanding.

Otoh, you need to understand that physical community can be difficult to find. As mentioned they are there, but the nearest ones may be too far to travel to. Or there could be a lot of people in your area who hafta keep it on the down low, for fear of discrimination. Pre- internet, a lot of people grew up in their faith in isolation and just stumbled along as best they could. Some people just prefer to be alone. Nowadays a lot of the old message boards from the early-mid 2000s where people could have good discussions are kaput. Or on life support.

I may not be wiccan, but I don't understand this recent disdain and bigotry towards them.
 
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The idea of nature-based religions has long interested me. At a time of searching, I made a brief investigation of Wicca. At the time, it was the only one that I had heard of.

It was, to be frank, pretty disappointing. I have zero interest in spells and am not overly fond of ritual. Furthermore, much of what I found online seemed to be aimed at teenage girls and young women (no disrespect intended).

I joined an attractive looking forum but found that many of the questions were of the "how do I tell my parents I am a witch?" variety.

So, is Wicca as the title suggests? Has it perhaps evolved into something rather picturesque that is for people not wanting to be bothered by a deeper approach? Or are there some Wiccans out there doing and hopefully writing some good stuff?
Wicca was the conjuration of two people in England back when anti-Witchcraft laws were still on the books.

The 'Grand Old Man's Gerald Brosseau Gardner. And his accomplice, Doreen Valiente. Both are now deceased.

Gardner invented the faith fable at a time when he would have been prosecuted had he promoted Witchcraft.

So, he imagined a Coven in the woods that taught him everything he learned so to put it in a book.
Because, Wicca was not illegal.

Wicca is not paganism lite. It doesn't even qualify as Witchcraft lite. It is fiction,entirely, put to many made ritual. And is called Wicca because people would also be presumed to balk at teaching traditional Witchcraft in an era where the church still held sway.

Today, Wicca can be said to be environmentalism coupled with ritual and the Golden Rule.

Gardenarian Wicca is the foundation of every Wiccan tradition or practice. Because Gerald is the father of the neo-practice. ( neo-paganism being the umbrella beneath which Wicca resides)

It has nothing whatever to do with "traditional" Witchcraft.

If Wicca in practice leads to a practitioner being a good or better person, I see nothing wrong with their choice of faith.

All religion is human made.
 
@QuietPeace There was nothing new in your post for me but nonetheless, thank you for replying.

Referring to Wicca you mention that "it is a fiction". Yet you finish your post by saying "all religion is human made". I guess this puts Wicca on an even footing with all the rest.

I would go further on this and ask if "fiction" is so bad. From this fiction practices and ideas may emerge and a first step be made.Good stories are features of many faiths after all.
 
@QuietPeace There was nothing new in your post for me but nonetheless, thank you for replying.

Referring to Wicca you mention that "it is a fiction". Yet you finish your post by saying "all religion is human made". I guess this puts Wicca on an even footing with all the rest.

I would go further on this and ask if "fiction" is so bad. From this fiction practices and ideas may emerge and a first step be made.Good stories are features of many faiths after all.
My post was intended to speak to the topic and inform any who read it. As a former Wiccan I have the experience to share.

Indeed , all religions are man made. And the religion of Wicca is not an exception.

Human nature has a tendency to desire a measure of control regarding the particulars of our lives and reality itself.
With regard to religion, we compress the unknown into a box framed by doctrines of our invention. Manufacturing a composite of the unknown ,to our human consciousness, that is the cause for existence.
Those controls include exacting discipline so as to insure our behaviors comport with what is judged societal norms. Which is not a universal template.

Wicca did not exist as GBG described. It could not have.

People hold to faith because our nature needs to feel we know what's going on. And we have control in the sense we think what we can't control in our lives is a grand design of an invisible force with a plan and higher consciousness.
We imagine we are all important. And then we create an image of something that agrees. And in and of itself,requires we hold it as all important in return.
A reciprocal mythos.

And again,it's the human condition. However,if the belief in a fiction makes someone a better person, wheres the harm?
We don't know why we exist or where all this came from.

Science is theory. Religion is faith.
 
The 'Grand Old Man's Gerald Brosseau Gardner. And his accomplice, Doreen Valiente. Both are now deceased.
I have no serious input in this, other than a passing interest in the somewhat delightfully 'bonkers' aspects of British esoterica that flourished from the Edwardian Era, that "Gilded Age" in Great Britain, a "leisurely time when women wore picture hats and did not vote, when the rich were not ashamed to live conspicuously, and the sun really never set on the British flag", through the horrors of the First World War and our slow decline on the world stage ...

If anyone knows a sociological study along those lines, I'd snap it up in a blink.

Gardner invented the faith fable at a time when he would have been prosecuted had he promoted Witchcraft.
I'm not so sure ... there were Masonic Lodges, more esoteric Freemasonry, Rosicrucian Orders, all manner of stuff was being entertained.

A point of interest is the case of Helen Duncan, a fraudulent spiritualist making money from seances. She had been caught and convicted in Scotland in 1933, for 'fraudulent mediumship', and later was performing her 'mediumship' in Portsmouth when, in November 1941, she said she was in touch with the spirit of a dead sailor, a crewman of HMS Barham, which had been sunk that month by a U-Boat, with the loss of 800+ lives – a fact which the Admiralty desired suppressed for the public good.

So why the 1944 conviction? Because the military was paranoid about word of the D-Day landings getting out. Portsmouth was the home of the Navy. Somehow she had found out about HMS Barham ... what other secrets might she be told?

The antique Witchcraft Act was repealed in 1951 and replaced by the Fraudulent Mediums Act, partly due to the controversy surrounding the Duncan case. Winston Churchill, then Prime Minister, complained that the trial was a waste of resources and 'absolute tomfoolery'. The Fraudulent Mediums Act 1951 was replaced by the Consumer Protection Regulations Act 2008.

Another spiritualist, Jane Rebecca Yorke, appeared at the Old Bailey later the same year. At her seances, undercover police asked about non-existent family members. She provided elaborate details, provided by her spirit guides. She was found guilty on seven counts. Because of her age, Sir Gerald Dodson, the recorder, fined her £5, saying it was necessary to ‘protect women who had gone to her in their sorrow and bereavement to get some spurious comfort’.
 
Regarding British Wicca – the credit is not all due to Gardner by a long mile:

Margaret Alice Murray, daughter of well-to-do Upper Middle Class parents in Calcutta, a quite admirable woman and scholar, an Egyptologist, archaeologist, anthropologist, historian, and folklorist, is regarded as "the Grandmother of Wicca" and her witch-cult theories provided the blueprint for contemporary Paganism and specifically Wicca.

There is no evidence of Wicca existing before the publication of Murray's books, and for those who came after her, "Murray may have seemed the ideal fairy godmother, and her theory became the pumpkin coach that could transport them into the realm of fantasy for which they longed".

Historian Philip Heselton suggested that the New Forest coven – the oldest alleged Wiccan group – was founded circa 1935 by esotericists aware of Murray's theory and who may have believed themselves to be reincarnated witch-cult members.

Gerald Gardner claimed to be an initiate of the New Forest coven, and he was perhaps the only member of Murray's Folklore Society to "wholeheartedly" accept Murray's witch-cult hypothesis.

Murray's witch-cult theories were influential on other non-Gardnerian Wiccan traditions. In San Francisco during the late 1960s, Murray's writings were among the sources used by Aidan A. Kelly in the creation of his Wiccan tradition, the New Reformed Orthodox Order of the Golden Dawn. In Los Angeles during the early 1970s, they were used by Zsuzsanna Budapest when she was establishing her feminist-oriented tradition of Dianic Wicca.
 
The Rosicrucian Order Crotona Fellowship was a Rosicrucian group founded by George Alexander Sullivan in about 1924.

The group's Ashrama Hall (1936) and their Christchurch Garden Theatre (1938) was possibly funded and built in the grounds of a benefactor, Catherine Emily Chalk. Self-styled 'The First Rosicrucian Theatre in England', from June to September 1938 it presented mystically-themed plays, written by Sullivan which, according to a guest that Gardner brought to the theatre, so badly written and acted that she refused to accompany him to any further performances.

A significant minority among students of Theosophist Alice Bailey's Arcane School were members of the Crotona Fellowship.
 
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