Roman Catholicism – Whither Goest Thou?

[Thomas]

This outsider never understood why priests can't marry...especially with the obvious sexual frustration it has revealed....wwjd

Well Jesus never did ... and arguably had a low opinion of marriage anyway.

And I agree with the frustrations bit ... until some argue that the historic abuse cases are a result of celibacy, which they clearly ain't, in that the same abuses are recorded in denominations which allow a married clergy.

Moreover the lack of ordination of women is why I'll prolly never delve in to know more.

OK ... Jesus never had a woman among the Twelve?

Nor do I understand why divorced folks can't take communion...wwjd

There's sufficient reason to suggest he'd call them hypocrites if they tried.

Latin rite? Why is it opposed and why can't it be like any multilingual church provide services for each differing times of day or days of week?

Because it's not the same thing.

The trad gowns red shoes, pomp and circumstance, as a result of Roman national church? However it came about is another sticking point for me.

But having sticking points without understanding the reasons is a bit like having opinions on matters one knows nothing about – one is absolutely entitled to do so, but no-one is obliged to pay them any heed.

... my most often preferred level of spirituality is listening to the wind in the leaves converse with the birds and the babbling brook.

OK, and yours is a very humanist spirituality, and its laudable ... but there is another order of spirituality.

 

[Thomas]

As an outsider definitely not Catholic, and my my own admission a Christian without the creator G!d as a physical or ethereal entity...

Hard to reconcile ... but OK ... I mean, not a Christian as Jesus would recognise.

What I have learned of know of the Jesuits, they are the closest I get...the most radical among them is what resonates with me.

LOL, really? Those guys are hardcore! Talk about indoctrination!

There are radicals you'd love among the other orders, if you knew them, just as there are conservatives.

Thomas Merton (Cistercian, via Benedictines); Bede Griffiths, aka Swami Dayananda (Benedictine); Timothy Radcliffe (Dominican);

Much of what Francis said was alright with me. (Can't say that about all Popes)

OK ...

Simialr to what is referred to Catholic Light, the Episcopalian Bishop Spong RIP, had some thinking I could get behind.

Yeah, but not Catholic by miles ...

My hope is we continue to see the Christian pulpits lean on beatitudes over the commandments and embracing some of the interfaith Renewal JewBUs leanings. As an American, the Jeffersonian Bible speaks to me as well.

Well the way things are headed in your neck of the woods, there seems not much chance of that ... as for the Jefferson Bible, that would be a good place to start!

 

[TheLightWithin]

Ah ... there's the nub! Who's interpretation of Vatican II, that's the question!

I suppose the official one.

 

[TheLightWithin]

I'm not defending it, but I'm not calling for its dismissal.

Maybe it needs to be reworked? Would that be the work of the new Pope?
It seems like calling contraception "intrinsically evil" is itself, some degree of evil.

 

[TheLightWithin]

My solution:
Offer 'marriage' as a non-sacramental – that is not a promise made before God – union. Kinda like a civil union with a blessing.

There was talk amongst some evangelicals for a time about creating something within their churches called a "covenant marriage" something that was beyond a civil marriage I guess. That was in response to their irritation about civil unions before same sex marriage was allowed. It really bothered some religious people that the government was allowing this and they wanted to make some kind of counterpoint to it.

 

[TheLightWithin]

OK, and yours is a very humanist spirituality

Or nature based, it seems

 

[TheLightWithin]

Hard to reconcile ... but OK ... I mean, not a Christian as Jesus would recognise.

Would the concept of Christian or what a Christian is or is thought to be, even make sense to Jesus?

 

[TheLightWithin]

This young man has a pretty good way of explaining things, at least it gives me a better idea of some things in Catholicism.
I used to watch EWTN from time to time too.
In this case this young priest / friar is talking about Pope Francis in both videos so they seem pertinent.

It really did seem to upset a lot of people that Pope Francis cared about the poor and the environment, and that he was not rageful towards same sex couples, etc. Father Casey does his best to clarify.

 

[Thomas]

Maybe it needs to be reworked? Would that be the work of the new Pope?

That would be seen as one pope rewriting another pope ... that would not go down well.

It's an interesting point – there would be uproar.

But it's not without precedent – Vatican II was a definite change in the way that Judaism, Islam and other religions are seen. Of course, for many, things like this in Vatican II are clear examples that it's a false council and that John XXIII is an heresiarch pope, etc., etc.

 

[Thomas]

Would the concept of Christian or what a Christian is or is thought to be, even make sense to Jesus?

Well in context of the comment ... yes.

Jesus believed in the God of Israel. He said 'if you can't believe in me, believe in the works that I do' (cf eg John 10:38).

My brother-in-Christ Wil cannot bring himself to believe in God the Father, the works that Jesus did, nor even, with any certainty, the existence of Jesus himself, so on a scale of things, although I agree with the idea that Christianity today is a far cry from His time, there are some common elements which are absolutely fundamental to it.