The second coming = WWJD

Thomas said:
I'm never sure of the mirror analogy. Scripture speaks more of immanence, I'm not sure a mirror implies that? If we say that the indwelling presence 'shines out' of the person (although not necessarily) then we might say that person mirrors the Lord.

"Do you not know that you are God’s Temple and that God’s Spirit dwells within you?" (1 Corinthians 3:16).


But the term is so nebulous and, as @Longfellow points out, carries a lot of extraneous baggage. I'm not sure the New Age views it quite the same ways as Paramahansa Yogananda – although there's a lot of fruitful dialogue to be had.

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I did a quick AI check, and publish the result here, having changed 'Christ consciousness' to read 'cosmic consciousness' and stripped out any religious overtones, thus removed the term 'spirituality' even though that is acceptable in a non-religious sense.

Cosmic consciousness
... generally refers to a state of ... awareness or enlightenment ... characterized by love, compassion, and a deep understanding of interconnectedness. It’s often described as a higher state of consciousness that transcends the limitations of the ego and perceived separation from others. This concept ... is sometimes associated with the idea of achieving unity with ... the universe.
Beyond Ego:
Cosmic consciousness is often contrasted with ego-based consciousness, which is associated with self-centeredness, fear, and separateness.
Unity and Oneness:
It emphasizes the interconnectedness of all things and the recognition that we are all part of a larger ... whole.
Love and Compassion:
A key aspect of Cosmic consciousness is the experience of unconditional love, compassion, and forgiveness towards oneself and others.
Spiritual Awakening:
It can be seen as a state of ... awakening or enlightenment, where one’s perception of reality shifts to a higher level of understanding and awareness.
Accessing Cosmic consciousness:
Practices like meditation, mindfulness, and selfless service are often associated with the development of Cosmic consciousness.
Not Just a Belief:
Cosmic consciousness is not just a belief system, but also a way of living that emphasizes love, compassion, and unity.

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As we can see, the fundamental definition has not changed, and the addition of Christ as a prefix does nothing and adds nothing to the meaning of the thing. So really 'Christ' is ancillary and sets up dichotomies with Scripture – nothing in Scripture talks of 'cosmic awareness' or 'enlightenment' in any comparable sense – if anything Christ points to those who one would suspect are unaware of any enhanced perception or thought processes ...

Add to this that, in his own words "I am not of this cosmos" (John 8:23), we can then see that 'comic consciousness' is in the sphere of the (good) 'archons of this age'. Having 'the mind of Christ' is initiation into the Christian Mysteries, not the Golden Rule.
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My point is that from the beginning, the content of "Christ consciousness" was not taken from the Bible. It came from elsewhere, and then some Bible verses were cherry picked with no thought for the context, and interpreted to agree with that.

(later) Maybe we're saying the same thing. "Christ consciousness" is just a new label for cosmic consciousness, which did not come originally from the Bible at all, but maybe some parts have been added or modified, to be able to call it "Christ consciousness." However that may be, it doesn't even try to be all the same as what Jesus teaches in the Bible. I'll try saying it that way. Whatever Christ consciousness is, it doesn't come from trying to understand what Jesus teaches in the Bible. From what I saw in some searches, there might be some people trying to develop versions of it that do agree with all of His teachings.
 
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Thomas said:
None of this implies "Christ consciousness" as implied with all its New Age baggage.
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I don't know what the New Age 'baggage' is precisely, that may vary according to the source - HOWEVER I suspect that many New Age writers have some advanced knowledge but it is distilled to something simpler for the masses. What you said about the meanings - psyche, pneuma, nous, dianoia, phroneo (thanks BTW) to me sound - like some of the New Age material I have read at various times comes from the same family, that the authors knew the esoteric material and wrote something they thought people could use and understand. New Age is really esoterica for the masses.
 
Thomas said:
The consciousness of the Risen Christ is God. To say 'Christ consciousness' in the NA sense is to say 'God consciousness' ... and who can fathom the things of God? as St Paul asked more than once, referring to Isaiah 40:13. He himself said "In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God." (1 Corinthians 2:11)
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Sometimes in Unity they would encourage us to discern whether our thoughts were "God thoughts" or not.
In practice it may have seemed a bit like "am I doing this my way or G-d's way" or "WWJD" or "avoiding negativity" -- which I think is not wrong, but the idea was after something even more high minded and prayerful, I think.
 
Even if there is a version of Christ consciousness that tries to agree with all the teachings of Jesus in the Bible, it would still be missing what the gospel of Jesus is all about, because it isn't only about people individually, and it isn't only about consciousness or disposition. It's still a misleading use of His name.
 
Longfellow said:
Even if there is a version of Christ consciousness that tries to agree with all the teachings of Jesus in the Bible, it would still be missing what the gospel of Jesus is all about, because it isn't only about people individually, and it isn't only about consciousness or disposition. It's still a misleading use of His name.
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Well...misleading? Maybe? Could be? To what end?
Depending on the artwork used (say on a new age book) it could, COULD create an impression of an alignment with the Jesus of middle of the road churches from the middle to end of the last century in America. Something very impressionistic and bound to time place and culture.
(I base this on my memory of New Age books from decades ago, their pictures and impression, and what little bit I knew of church at that time.)

Or maybe not. As I noted some New Age authors are knowledgeable about esoterica and simplify it for the casual reader.

But notice they say Christ consciousness - not Jesus consciousness or Yeshua consciousness. Christ means anointed one.
 
TheLightWithin said:
Well...misleading? Maybe? Could be? To what end?
Depending on the artwork used (say on a new age book) it could, COULD create an impression of an alignment with the Jesus of middle of the road churches from the middle to end of the last century in America. Something very impressionistic and bound to time place and culture.
(I base this on my memory of New Age books from decades ago, their pictures and impression, and what little bit I knew of church at that time.)

Or maybe not. As I noted some New Age authors are knowledgeable about esoterica and simplify it for the casual reader.

But notice they say Christ consciousness - not Jesus consciousness or Yeshua consciousness. Christ means anointed one.
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With a little help from an AI friend, here’s how it looks to me now:
The term “Christ consciousness” was first popularized by Paramahansa Yogananda, who applied the label to a branch of Yoga and Vedantic philosophy. He took a few sayings of Jesus—lifted out of their biblical context—and reinterpreted them to align with that philosophy, without altering the philosophy itself. From there, the term evolved, and in some cases, it has absorbed influence from Jesus’ teachings. But at its origin, “Christ consciousness” was never a biblical idea—it was a pre-existing metaphysical framework presented with Christian language.
 
Thomas said:
If we want to get into 'Christ consciousness' language, 1 Corinthians 2 is a meatier text.
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Now we need more proof texts to draw imaginary distinctions when the transformative reality being described is the same.

2:5 τοῦτο γὰρ φρονείσθω ἐν ὑμῖν ὃ καὶ ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ : phroneō touto phroneō (the 'γὰρ' is a conjunctive) en hymin hos kai en christos iēsous

The above proof text was obviously not enough, so here are more proof texts:

Thomas said:
14: But the natural man (psychikos anthropos) does not receive the things of God's Spirit; for to him it is folly, and he is unable to know them, since they are discerned spiritually.
15: The spiritual man (pneumatikos), moreover, discerns all things, yet is discerned by no one.
16: "For who has known the mind of the Lord, who will give him instruction?" And we have the mind of Christ (nous christos)"

In 14-15 Paul introduces the distinction between the psychical (from psyché, Latin, anima: hence also 'animate' or 'animal') life, and the 'pneumatic' or 'spiritual' life of a radically different nature.
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I agree that Paul's pneuma is different from the way most modern people think of the world, but that doesn't mean his reality is different from our own; it just means his descriptions differ according to his extrinsic and intrinsic perspectives influenced by the Greco-Roman world he inhabited.

A case in point is you now speak of ascent and descent in a figurative sense.

But in Paul's thought, pneuma possesses the nature of the stars, the realm where star-like bodies, such as the pneumatic bodies of believers, dwell. He had no problem with a literal ascent and descent. The stars were much closer in his cosmos.

Another case in point is Paul, as a 1st-century Jewish mystic, describes a path of salvation through a multi-layered cosmos. The "air" - what we call today the lower atmosphere - which Paul is fond of mentioning is itself filled with tangible elemental spirits and demons that could cause real harm to you. Salvation in Paul's worldview isn't just about a change of heart. No. One must have a literal ascent out of this trapped lower world, which is at the bottom of the cosmic structure.

Do we, in the 21st century, have to adopt this entire cosmology to be faithful to the Christian message? Must we believe in a multi-layered heaven and a lower atmosphere filled with demons to truly understand what it means to have the mind of Christ?

No.

There's a difference between an experience itself (our intrinsic perspective) and our capacity to articulate that experience.

Thomas said:
None of this implies "Christ consciousness" as implied with all its New Age baggage.
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Reminds me of the reality of magnetism.

Thales of Miletus gave lodestones a soul or psyche. Epicurus suggested similar atoms cause the attraction. Some ancient Chinese thinkers believed the lodestone and iron sought balance and harmony within the cosmic flow of things.

Civilizations throughout history have noticed the attraction of certain stones to iron. Yet the explanation for this phenomenon has undergone huge changes. But these changes do not mean the underlying reality has changed.

Thales gave lodestones a soul (psyché), while today we describe it with field equations. Tomorrow something else.

You will no doubt continue presenting Paul's language - pneuma, psyché, nous - as the final, authoritative description of spiritual reality. What can I say about it? It is Paul's attempt to articulate a transformative experience using the best conceptual tools available to him in the first-century Greco-Roman world.

When I say Christ-consciousness, I am taking the reality that Paul experienced and trying to articulate it using the more developed experiential language of our time.
 
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Ahanu said:
I agree that Paul's pneuma is different from the way most modern people think of the world, but that doesn't mean his reality is different from our own; it just means his descriptions differ according to his extrinsic and intrinsic perspectives influenced by the Greco-Roman world he inhabited.
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OK.

Ahanu said:
But in Paul's thought, pneuma possesses the nature of the stars, the realm where star-like bodies, such as the pneumatic bodies of believers, dwell. He had no problem with a literal ascent and descent. The stars were much closer in his cosmos.
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Nor do I, actually ... my only comment is, 'it's pneuma all the way down' – from God to the least material thing this side of nothing at all.

Ahanu said:
Another case in point is Paul, as a 1st-century Jewish mystic, describes a path of salvation through a multi-layered cosmos. The "air" - what we call today the lower atmosphere - which Paul is fond of mentioning is itself filled with tangible elemental spirits and demons that could cause real harm to you.
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Yes. I've met them on the very rare occasion.

Ahanu said:
Salvation in Paul's worldview isn't just about a change of heart. No. One must have a literal ascent out of this trapped lower world, which is at the bottom of the cosmic structure. This extrinsic perspective influences his intrinsic perspective.
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Yes – it's all about Christ.

Ahanu said:
Do we, in the 21st century, have to adopt this entire cosmology to be faithful to the Christian message? Must we believe in a multi-layered heaven and a lower atmosphere filled with demons to truly understand what it means to have the mind of Christ?
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No.

Ahanu said:
There's a difference between an experience itself (our intrinsic perspective) and our capacity to articulate that experience.
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OK.

Ahanu said:
You will no doubt continue presenting Paul's language - pneuma, psyché, nous - as the final, authoritative description of spiritual reality. What can I say about it? It is Paul's attempt to articulate a transformative experience using the best conceptual tools available to him in the first-century Greco-Roman world.
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If the tools still work, why abandon them?

Thus scholars of different traditions – Hindu, Buddhist, Native American (is that the right term now) – can see past the terms to their significations.

Ahanu said:
When I say Christ-consciousness, I am taking the reality that Paul experienced and trying to articulate it using the more developed experiential language of our time.
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OK. I am simply saying that the common and popular usage of Christ-consciousness does not encompass what Paul is getting at.
 
Thomas said:
OK.


Nor do I, actually ... my only comment is, 'it's pneuma all the way down' – from God to the least material thing this side of nothing at all.


Yes. I've met them on the very rare occasion.


Yes – it's all about Christ.


No.


OK.


If the tools still work, why abandon them?

Thus scholars of different traditions – Hindu, Buddhist, Native American (is that the right term now) – can see past the terms to their significations.


OK. I am simply saying that the common and popular usage of Christ-consciousness does not encompass what Paul is getting at.
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There's more to life than experiencing things.
 
Generally I think we can agree that 'Christ consciousness' and 'Cosmic consciousness' are regarded as synonymous, from the above.

I highlighted that one paragraph that disassociates 'Jesus' from 'Christ', and thus renders 'Christ' as a somewhat abstract term uncoupled from its Hebrew root.

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My point now would be, this order of consciousness, 'Cosmic consciousness' is accessible to the human intellect, and a humanist would have no issue upholding the values – it's basically the Golden Rule.

So why is the New Testament considered 'Revelation' if Christ consciousness is not revealed of God, but simply plain common sense?

And where's the mystery?

Christ said:
"Again, therefore, he (Jesus) said to them, "I am going and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin; where I am going you are not able to come." So the Judaeans said, "Will he kill himself, and that is why he says, 'Where I am going you are not able to come'?" And he said to them, "You are from that which is below, I am from that which is above; you are from this cosmos, I am not from this cosmos. Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins, for if you do not have faith that I AM, you will die in your sins." So they said to him, "Who are you?" (John 8:21-24)

The first point is Christ says He is 'not of this cosmos' – so His consciousness transcends cosmic consciousness (the consciousness of this cosmos) and therefore speaks of something unknown and inaccessible to the unaided intellect.

Immediately He uses the 'I AM' phrase, ego eimi. The literal translation is 'it is I', but that makes no sense, His saying 'you do not have faith that it is I', but by using that phrase, the words spoken to Moses from the burning bush, He is making a point with regard to his metacosmic origin, and His condemnation of their lack of faith.

So 'Christ consciousness' is something more than cosmic consciousness.
 
Thomas said:
Nor do I, actually ... my only comment is, 'it's pneuma all the way down' – from God to the least material thing this side of nothing at all.
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Pneuma itself is not uniform. It exists in a hierarchy of refinement and functionality. It features varying gradations.

No wonder you have depictions of literal ascent for transformation and salvation.
 
@Longfellow beat me to the point here, I was composing this last night but ran out of time.

Here I have simply copied what Google AI offers about 'Christ Consciousness', but changed the word 'Christ' for 'Cosmic' – (my interpolations in parentheses)

Higher Consciousness:
Cosmic consciousness is often described as a higher level of consciousness, surpassing the limitations of ordinary, ego-driven awareness.
Oneness:
It emphasizes the interconnectedness of all beings and the universe, suggesting that there is a fundamental unity underlying apparent separation.
Transcendence of Ego:
Cosmic consciousness involves moving beyond the limitations of the individual ego, with its self-centeredness and attachments, to a more expansive and inclusive awareness.
Love and Compassion:
It is characterized by a deep sense of love, compassion, and empathy for all beings, reflecting (some of, specifically the moral) the teachings of Jesus.
Spiritual Awakening:
Cosmic consciousness is a state of spiritual (not spiritual as in pneumatikos in Paul and the NT) awakening, where one becomes aware of their true nature and potential for divine connection.
Interpretations and Perspectives:

Jesus as an Example:
Many interpretations focus on Jesus as a model of Christ consciousness, highlighting his teachings of love, forgiveness, and spiritual transformation.
(Therefore it's technically not 'his' consciousness, as he's but an exemplar of 'Cosmic consciousness')

Potential for All:
A key aspect of the concept is the belief that all individuals have the potential to develop Cosmic consciousness through spiritual practice and personal growth.
Beyond Religious Boundaries:
The concept of Cosmic consciousness is sometimes seen as applicable to other spiritual traditions and paths to enlightenment.
Individual and Collective:
Some interpretations focus on the individual's awakening to Cosmic consciousness, while others emphasize its potential to transform humanity as a whole.

In essence, Cosmic consciousness is a concept that points towards a profound spiritual awakening, a state of being characterized by unity, love, and a deep connection to the divine (whatever the divine is interpreted to be).
 
Ahanu said:
Your response misses the point of my post.

Tell me how your response right now captures my core argument. I would love to hear it.
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I looked again at what you've been saying about Christ consciousness, and you repeatedly describe it as an experience. It's some kind of experience that you are calling "Christ consciousness." As I understand it, you think that Jesus and/or Paul had that same experience, and just used different words to explain it.

Are you calling it "Christ consciousness" because you think that He was the first one to experience it? Certainly not the only one, so why put His name on it?
 
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