What do you think Taoism is?
- Thread starter mchang
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An indefinable oneness, a principle of the universe not described by science. A philosophy/spirituality based upon recognizing something of that and adjusting behaviour accordingly.
That's off the top of my head.
That's off the top of my head.
wil
UNeyeR1
The way... or the way according to those who follow it.
Me? I miss maps, gps doesn't cut it...the convenience misses out on the journey and focuses on the destination.
Me? I miss maps, gps doesn't cut it...the convenience misses out on the journey and focuses on the destination.
wil
UNeyeR1
If I have a choice I paddle downstream. I have spent much of my life utilizing opm and opt not in a billionaire way but more of a Robin hood/ Tom Sawyer way.
I read an American translation of the Tao te ching in my youth and was gjfted the tao of pooh, and te of piglet when they were published.
I am not well versed in any aspect, recall it made a lot of sense but for some reason not compelled enough to learn more.
I haven't read it, but from the snippets and mentions in inter-religious and commentaries I have read, it's a 'Way' like other ways, with much in common, and much that makes it distinct.
The Three Jewels of Daoism – Compassion, Frugality and Humility are pretty well normative across all traditions.
Thomas thanks and good morning. What do you think about the idea that we are trying to get back to where we started? Before we took on this dual nature of spirit/divine and human. Figuring out how to make these two things within each of us work together. Completely shifting our consciousness from projected reality to the phenomenal world?
"Still if you practice observation with a mind attached to projected reality, you will never be aware of bad feelings in yourself. Only when your mind is utterly detached from projected reality can you observe the phenomenal world and truly understand right and wrong. In fact, you are just like a sobered man. Freshly awakened, he can now see the evil he did while he was drunk, deeds of which he was completely unconscious before." Life of Sima Chengzhen: Sima Chengzhen (AD 647-735) was a renowned Daoist priest of the Tang dynasty.
Thanks Brian
Good afternoon to you (from where I am).
I think it's a valid proposition which makes itself known in the various Traditions. Mine is 'Traditional Christian' (broadly Catholic & Orthodox) and so I would express it in those terms.So in those terms, with regard to getting back where we started, I'd offer the anthropology of St Maximus the Confessor (7th century) who proposed a triadic structure of 'being – well-being – eternal well-being'.
'Being' is existence, a thing's coming-to-be 'out of nothing' and its natural movement is towards its good and its end, which is a return to the source of its arising, be that God, or The Good, or The One, The Real, or however one terms it.
'Well-being' is the human drama of existence.
'Eternal well-being' is the destiny and end of our existence.
The goal of all existence, all being, is to achieve harmony across these three domains – so, if I may make so bold, it is living, and living in harmony with the Dao that can be spoken (ell-being) and the Dao that cannot be spoken (eternal-well-being).
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Meister Eckhart says much the same thing, as do many of the Christian mystics.
But the point I think they are making is it's all one.
Julian of Norwich wrote:
"... For our Soul is so deep-grounded in God, and so endlessly treasured, that we may not come to the knowing thereof till we have first knowing of God ... we should know them both in one: whether we be stirred to know God or our Soul, both (these stirrings) are good and true."
(Julian of Norwich, 14th century Christian mystic, Revelations of Divine Love, Chapter XVI)
If I may paraphrase:
"... For the transient is so deep-grounded in the Eternal, and so endlessly treasured, that we may not come to the knowing thereof till we have first knowing of the Eternal ... we should know them both in one: whether we be stirred to know the Eternal or the transient, both (these stirrings) are good and true."
Auguries of Innocence
To see a world in a grain of sand
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour.
William Blake (written perhaps 1803, published 60 years later)
I will try and find the Dogen reference I found, that his point was doing zazen was not on the way to enlightenment, but rather doing zazen is enlightenment.
The Dao, famously, cannot be spoken – and the point is that even if one commits one's entire life to the study and practice of the Dao, and are acclaimed a master, it still cannot be spoken, the master might have a better way of expressing aspects of it; of teaching it, but it, Itself, remains inviolate.
It's an acceptance of being in the mystery, rather than trying to understand it ... ?
To see a world in a grain of sand
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour.
William Blake (written perhaps 1803, published 60 years later)
I will try and find the Dogen reference I found, that his point was doing zazen was not on the way to enlightenment, but rather doing zazen is enlightenment.
The Dao, famously, cannot be spoken – and the point is that even if one commits one's entire life to the study and practice of the Dao, and are acclaimed a master, it still cannot be spoken, the master might have a better way of expressing aspects of it; of teaching it, but it, Itself, remains inviolate.
It's an acceptance of being in the mystery, rather than trying to understand it ... ?
Thomas, thanks for sharing.
So, body, mind, spirit. Heaven, Earth Man. God, Christ, Holy Spirit. All descriptions of three parts of the cosmic body. How do we get these working together in harmony.
My experience this lifetime has been to when I have a moment of 'observation' to seize it and bring it into my consciousness. Resolve, acknowledge, heal whatever it is. In doing so it is removed from my energetic being. When I do this my connection with the Source grows stronger, more pure because the distortion that is created is no longer present.
No idea where/when the end is, just happily on the journey letting what they being me surface so I can move through it.
I think the story of the garden of Eden in the metaphor is one of finding our center. The tree of life is in the center, the four rivers(energy) flow to and from this center. The ever-turning fiery sword and the cherubim are placed at the gate not to keep us out, but to help us gain reentry in the center and the tree of life. In doing the work we move back towards this gate.
Thanks.
Brian
I think with the Tao it can be shared, but only by two people who have had the experience. if one person plays golf and knows what it feels like to hit the golf shot well, can't explain it to someone who has never heard of the game of golf, but with two people having had the experience of hitting a golf shot well, then...
Thanks.
Brian
That's what this place is for!
Always a tricky one, is it two, or is it three, or is it aspects of the one ...
To go back to the anthropology of Maximus again, he believed the role of humanity was to act as methorios (μεθόριος), which translates as 'boundary' , and he used the term to describe humanity's unique, cosmic role as priesthood and bridge between the physical and the spiritual realms, being both physical and spiritual entities.
I'm assuming 'heaven, earth, man' here ... again, the job if humanity is to unite/harmonise the two.
Ah ... different thing – not 'three parts of the cosmic body'.
We should probably discuss this in more detail, as a first reading would suggest an attempt to possess the moment, whereas the traditions might suggest be an impartial observer ...
... which would suggest a healing ...
... This, suggests a different reading of the 'seizing' comment.
That's a very idiosyncratic reading, as the story in the context of Near Eastern Myth and Israel's experience is the opposite?
Yes.
I think the experience of one resonates with that of the other, something beyond words...
Practice, brother, practice!
Depending on the chosen path, that determines the practice.
But once you start, you're in it.
The path is the goal – the goal is the path, the two are one – rewards along the way, if any occur at all, are a bonus (and a potential distraction).
I think that's best.
A Buddhist practitioner once told me the advice is to ignore all 'phenomena' that might accompany practice. "If the universe wants to tell you something, it'll find a way."
What do I know? I'm a toddler at this ...
I think it is tree being combined/integrated into a working whole ONE.
I believe our duality is the spiritual and physical realms within us.
Heaven, Earth Man is from Taoism. Three parts of Fu hsi trigrams. Man in the middle harmonizing heaven and Earth within himself to create this Whole ONE.
I think God, Christ Holy spirit represents heaven(God), Christ (man) Holy spirit (earth)
I'll relate person experience with shifting consciousness in a separate post.
Thanks.
Brian
My first experience with past lives and shifting my consciousness from projected reality was this:
In early on after I began meditating i had a visual in color which is rare for me. I saw a person(me) lying prone waist high with someone standing next to me. This person had on a peacock headdress and peacock armbands. I had the feeling I was being held spread eagle and there was also a woman present.
No idea what it meant.
About a week later my wife and I were sitting in our dining room. My wife is a medium and she had just finished giving us a reading, checking in with spirit.
When she was done I remembered this visual and started to ask her about it. As soon as I had this thought I had this inrush of emotion that took my breath away and I uttered an unintelligible sound. I just looked at her and couldn't speak.
After while of catching my breath I asked about this. What i felt was the emotional I felt was when I was sacrificed during that lifetime. it was the terror I had felt. It had been waiting in the ether for me to be open to accept and learn what had happened to me. As soon as I asked it come I was open to knowing.
My cousin from this lifetime was the priest killing me, my wife was the priestess.
The healing is in the knowing and acceptance of what was; then forgiveness of others and self, if necessary. It is no longer a part of my energy.
This was a shift in how I saw the world around me. No longer in projected reality, but seeing this in the phenomenal world as it truly is.
I've come in contact with many past live experiences since, and accepted my stuff where necessary and forgiveness is key. Forgiveness of self and others. Not lip service, true heart felt forgiveness.
In doing so my connection grows clearer and stronger.
Take care.
Brian
In early on after I began meditating i had a visual in color which is rare for me. I saw a person(me) lying prone waist high with someone standing next to me. This person had on a peacock headdress and peacock armbands. I had the feeling I was being held spread eagle and there was also a woman present.
No idea what it meant.
About a week later my wife and I were sitting in our dining room. My wife is a medium and she had just finished giving us a reading, checking in with spirit.
When she was done I remembered this visual and started to ask her about it. As soon as I had this thought I had this inrush of emotion that took my breath away and I uttered an unintelligible sound. I just looked at her and couldn't speak.
After while of catching my breath I asked about this. What i felt was the emotional I felt was when I was sacrificed during that lifetime. it was the terror I had felt. It had been waiting in the ether for me to be open to accept and learn what had happened to me. As soon as I asked it come I was open to knowing.
My cousin from this lifetime was the priest killing me, my wife was the priestess.
The healing is in the knowing and acceptance of what was; then forgiveness of others and self, if necessary. It is no longer a part of my energy.
This was a shift in how I saw the world around me. No longer in projected reality, but seeing this in the phenomenal world as it truly is.
I've come in contact with many past live experiences since, and accepted my stuff where necessary and forgiveness is key. Forgiveness of self and others. Not lip service, true heart felt forgiveness.
In doing so my connection grows clearer and stronger.
Take care.
Brian
wil
UNeyeR1
And everyone does not need to play golf...
Every skill, every sport has an element of being in the flow eh?
The issue with the Trinity is it's a doctrine like no other:
"God is one because there is one Divinity: unoriginate, simple, beyond being, without parts, indivisible.
The Divinity is both unity and trinity – wholly one and wholly three.
It is wholly one in respect of the essence, wholly three in respect of the hypostases or persons.
For the Divinity is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and is in Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The whole Divinity is in the whole Father and the whole Father is in the whole Divinity.
The whole Divinity is in the whole Son and the whole Son is in the whole Divinity.
The whole Divinity is in the whole Holy Spirit and the whole Holy Spirit is in the whole Divinity.
The whole Divinity is both Father and in the whole Father; the whole Father is in the whole Divinity and the whole Divinity is the whole Father.
The whole Son is in the whole Divinity and the whole Divinity is in the whole Son; the whole Son is both the whole Divinity and in the whole Divinity.
The whole Divinity is both the Holy Spirit and in the whole Holy Spirit; and the whole Holy Spirit is both the whole Divinity and in the whole Divinity.
For the Divinity is not partially in the Father, nor is the Father part of God.
The Divinity is not partially in the Son, nor is the Son part of God.
The Divinity is not partially in the Holy Spirit, nor is the Holy Spirit part of God.
For the Divinity is not divisible; nor is the Father, or the Son, or the Holy Spirit incomplete God.
On the contrary,
the whole and complete Divinity is completely in the complete Father;
the whole and complete Divinity is completely in the complete Son; and
the whole and complete Divinity is completely in the complete Holy Spirit.
For the whole Father is completely in the whole Son and Spirit; and
the whole Son is completely in the whole Father and Spirit; and
the whole Holy Spirit is completely in the whole Father and Son.
Therefore the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one God.
The essence, power and energy of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one, for none of the hypostases or persons either exists or is intelligible without the others."
(Maximus the Confessor, Two Hundred Texts on Theology, Second Century, Text 1)
It's something to get one's head around ...
... but then we're a long way from Taoism here.
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