Christological Monism

Thomas

Christ plays in ten thousand places
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This thread is in response to a question about 'Christian monism' by @The Hammer, and I've entitled this thread thus, because the 'Christological' establishes my frame of reference with regard to what otherwise might be a somewhat loose and nebulous term.

In the following, I'll treat first of the monistic aspect, so this is a kind of general metaphysics, and then if there's interest, we can dig into the Christological later.

I've picked the bones from an essay, Monolatry, Monotheism, Monism, by David Armstrong on his Substack, as he and others helped shape my understanding. I'm going to skate a bit for brevity. Armstrong deals with his subject at some length. I'll fill in details if required.

+++

Humans seem to be naturally polylatrous, worshiping many divine forces and beings, of many kinds, in many places, and in many ways.

Over time, for various reasons, some peoples chose to worship one and only one God. This is monolatry, in that it admits others Gods, but we worship this one. It is the beginning of monotheism, but it's not there yet. In the journey from there to monotheism, there is a shift from our God among alien Gods, to our God and no others. It is usually the case that a monotheistic deity has an entourage of attendant divinities, and this is the process by which those other Gods are eliminated, or more often adopted, absorbed and repurposed into a divine hierarchy. This, fortuitously, leaves room to absorb or appropriate all the stories about the Gods – their mythologies – to the particular monotheistic framework, in which they are treated as subsidiaries of one ultimate divine force.

Thus monotheism’s enduring form is what M. David Litwa and other scholars have called "summodeism", a belief in one God as the source and origin of all, a one God who sits at the summit of the other Gods, and of divine power generally, an idea for which we have multiple attestation in the Ancient Near East (and many other places).

Summodeism is not quite monotheism the way we mean it. In part, that's because 'monotheism' is not really the best term for what we mean by monotheism.

When we talk about monotheism philosophically, we talk about the God of classical theism, the God of the Greek Presocratics, of Plato and Aristotle, and of the Stoics and Platonists of the 'Middle' and 'Later' periods: a God that is one, simple, absolute and infinite, wholly transcendent and wholly immanent, a God that is eternal, immutable, and in whom all things subsist, who is beyond comprehension, depiction, or determination.

The risk, of course, is such a God retreats into philosophical abstractions, and for this reason summodeism has its purpose, it is upaya, as the Buddhists say.

Monotheism properly becomes monism only when we conceive of "God" as something that fully transcends the natural and preternatural orders. Such a God is not that which stands at the apex of any hierarchy or order, nor as its fullest and most complete expression. Such thinking is still within the idea of monotheistic summodeism, replete with Divine Natures, archangels, powers, dominions and principalities, angels and daimones, fairies and elementals.

But by that token, once here, what we call 'God' no longer really has much to do with what 'God' language typically refers to, the divine qualities and divine attributes. English speakers are reliant on a word, 'God', that etymologically does refer more to a man in the sky, but that semantically it should not mean some kind of anthropomorphic, anthropopathic, or intracosmic entity. Hence the philosophical distinction (which I have until now obscured by capitalising God in every sense) in modern theology, between 'God' and 'god' or 'gods'.

'God' means the supreme reality itself, not a supreme being within reality, while 'god' and 'gods' can refer to subsidiary principles within the order of reality, higher than humans but lesser than God.
 
This thread is in response to a question about 'Christian monism' by @The Hammer, and I've entitled this thread thus, because the 'Christological' establishes my frame of reference with regard to what otherwise might be a somewhat loose and nebulous term.

In the following, I'll treat first of the monistic aspect, so this is a kind of general metaphysics, and then if there's interest, we can dig into the Christological later.

I've picked the bones from an essay, Monolatry, Monotheism, Monism, by David Armstrong on his Substack, as he and others helped shape my understanding. I'm going to skate a bit for brevity. Armstrong deals with his subject at some length. I'll fill in details if required.

+++

Humans seem to be naturally polylatrous, worshiping many divine forces and beings, of many kinds, in many places, and in many ways.

Over time, for various reasons, some peoples chose to worship one and only one God. This is monolatry, in that it admits others Gods, but we worship this one. It is the beginning of monotheism, but it's not there yet. In the journey from there to monotheism, there is a shift from our God among alien Gods, to our God and no others. It is usually the case that a monotheistic deity has an entourage of attendant divinities, and this is the process by which those other Gods are eliminated, or more often adopted, absorbed and repurposed into a divine hierarchy. This, fortuitously, leaves room to absorb or appropriate all the stories about the Gods – their mythologies – to the particular monotheistic framework, in which they are treated as subsidiaries of one ultimate divine force.

Thus monotheism’s enduring form is what M. David Litwa and other scholars have called "summodeism", a belief in one God as the source and origin of all, a one God who sits at the summit of the other Gods, and of divine power generally, an idea for which we have multiple attestation in the Ancient Near East (and many other places).

Summodeism is not quite monotheism the way we mean it. In part, that's because 'monotheism' is not really the best term for what we mean by monotheism.

When we talk about monotheism philosophically, we talk about the God of classical theism, the God of the Greek Presocratics, of Plato and Aristotle, and of the Stoics and Platonists of the 'Middle' and 'Later' periods: a God that is one, simple, absolute and infinite, wholly transcendent and wholly immanent, a God that is eternal, immutable, and in whom all things subsist, who is beyond comprehension, depiction, or determination.

The risk, of course, is such a God retreats into philosophical abstractions, and for this reason summodeism has its purpose, it is upaya, as the Buddhists say.

Monotheism properly becomes monism only when we conceive of "God" as something that fully transcends the natural and preternatural orders. Such a God is not that which stands at the apex of any hierarchy or order, nor as its fullest and most complete expression. Such thinking is still within the idea of monotheistic summodeism, replete with Divine Natures, archangels, powers, dominions and principalities, angels and daimones, fairies and elementals.

But by that token, once here, what we call 'God' no longer really has much to do with what 'God' language typically refers to, the divine qualities and divine attributes. English speakers are reliant on a word, 'God', that etymologically does refer more to a man in the sky, but that semantically it should not mean some kind of anthropomorphic, anthropopathic, or intracosmic entity. Hence the philosophical distinction (which I have until now obscured by capitalising God in every sense) in modern theology, between 'God' and 'god' or 'gods'.

'God' means the supreme reality itself, not a supreme being within reality, while 'god' and 'gods' can refer to subsidiary principles within the order of reality, higher than humans but lesser than God.
This actually helps me understand what you mean by "Christian monism" quite a bit better. And interestingly, I think there is more overlap between us here than I initially suspected, even if we're approaching it from very different theological directions.

There's a four-part essay by Christopher Scott Thompson on "Polytheistic Monism" that I've found useful in thinking about some of this. One of the ideas I took from it is that polytheism and monism aren't necessarily answering the same question. Polytheism is about the plurality of the Gods, while monism is more about the underlying nature of reality.

I find myself pretty sympathetic to that distinction.

I don't have much trouble with the idea that reality might have some kind of underlying unity, interconnectedness, or common ground. Where I'm less certain is whether I would describe that as One, particularly if "One" means that the Many ultimately resolve into it somehow.

Interconnected doesn't necessarily mean singular, at least to me.

That's probably where my understanding of Wyrd comes into this. I tend to think of reality as an interconnected web of causes, relationships, actions and consequences through which everything continually unfolds. Gods, spirits, humans, ancestors, nature, all of us are caught up in and participating in that web.

But I've never really felt the need to take the next step and say that the web itself is One Thing.

Which is also why I find your distinction between "God" and "gods" interesting. I think I understand what you mean when you describe God as "supreme reality itself" rather than a supreme being somewhere within reality. I'm just not sure I would use the word God for that.

From my perspective, Odin can be a God regardless of whether something more metaphysically fundamental underlies reality. And if there is some deeper ground of reality, I'm not sure its being more fundamental would necessarily make it a God either.

That's one reason Thompson's idea of polytheistic monism interests me. It gives me a way of thinking about unity without immediately turning the Gods into masks, fragments, or expressions of a single deity.

So I think where I'm sitting at the moment is somewhere around this: I can get pretty close to the idea of unity if we're talking about a profoundly interconnected reality in which nothing exists entirely in isolation.

I'm less certain about saying the Many ultimately resolve into One.
 
... Where I'm less certain is whether I would describe that as One, particularly if "One" means that the Many ultimately resolve into it somehow.
As I see it, it's a case of everything comes from one source – one ontological point.

Interconnected doesn't necessarily mean singular, at least to me.
No, quite right.

But I've never really felt the need to take the next step and say that the web itself is One Thing.
OK.

Which is also why I find your distinction between "God" and "gods" interesting. I think I understand what you mean when you describe God as "supreme reality itself" rather than a supreme being somewhere within reality. I'm just not sure I would use the word God for that.
OK, again, my paradigm is a Christological one ...

From my perspective, Odin can be a God regardless of whether something more metaphysically fundamental underlies reality. And if there is some deeper ground of reality, I'm not sure its being more fundamental would necessarily make it a God either.
I would reason that if it's more fundamental, it transcends that below it, if that makes sense? What manifests cannot be 'more', in the sense of something other than what is possible in the underlying fundamental reality. I would say the manifest arises in, and derives its essence and its being from.

That's one reason Thompson's idea of polytheistic monism interests me. It gives me a way of thinking about unity without immediately turning the Gods into masks, fragments, or expressions of a single deity.
OK

So I think where I'm sitting at the moment is somewhere around this: I can get pretty close to the idea of unity if we're talking about a profoundly interconnected reality in which nothing exists entirely in isolation.
Absolutely.

I'm less certain about saying the Many ultimately resolve into One.
So am I. That's where the drop in the ocean analogy falls short ...
 
Reality itself? All is a part of G!d?
Not 'part of', as God is not a composite.

Rather that everything that exists arises in and from the Supreme Reality, which Itself transcends all that arises by an infinite degree – so the Supreme Reality is not effected, touched, changed or altered, nor does it increase or decrease, grow or decay, or suffer contingency in any way.
 
Reality itself? All is a part of G!d?
Not 'part of', as God is not a composite.

Rather that everything that exists arises in and from the Supreme Reality, which Itself transcends all that arises by an infinite degree – so the Supreme Reality is not effected, touched, changed or altered, nor does it increase or decrease, grow or decay, or suffer contingency in any way.
Spirit surrounds and contains and weaves and permeates the material dimension of nature 'closer than my own jugular vein'. The wheel of spirit turns the wheel of nature, but is not turned by it ...
 
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As I see it, it's a case of everything comes from one source – one ontological point.


No, quite right.


OK.


OK, again, my paradigm is a Christological one ...


I would reason that if it's more fundamental, it transcends that below it, if that makes sense? What manifests cannot be 'more', in the sense of something other than what is possible in the underlying fundamental reality. I would say the manifest arises in, and derives its essence and its being from.


OK


Absolutely.


So am I. That's where the drop in the ocean analogy falls short ...
I may have been pushing the "Many don't reduce to One" point harder than necessary. I wasn't trying to come across as argumentative.

I am really just trying to understand your view better.

So, when you say everything comes from one ontological point, do you mean everything ultimately is that fundamental reality in some sense, or that everything derives its existence from it while still remaining genuinely distinct?

Because I can certainly entertain the latter.
 
Not 'part of', as God is not a composite.

Rather that everything that exists arises in and from the Supreme Reality, which Itself transcends all that arises by an infinite degree – so the Supreme Reality is not effected, touched, changed or altered, nor does it increase or decrease, grow or decay, or suffer contingency in any way.
I should have read further before replying. This basically answers my question. Thank you :)
 
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